All of our MCS use Gennex or M7 oil catch can, both are woking very well and
with very good function & reliable condition,the hot weather in Asia did cause short usage of PVC hose, Gennex oils catch can with high level Wurth Germany hose and without any craking concern...

 

K...solved the collapsing Alta can with a piece of PVC tube that fit perfectly in the silicone condenser. Now my question is...are either the PVC or copper scrub pad react negatively to the oil vapor?

 

To me, it looks like an miniature line filter for air tools.

 

PVC tubing is the route I'm going too as Alta wants $20.00 for a replacement tube.

 

A replacement tube won't hold up under this "revised" tube route. I don't think they were designed to hold up under vacume to begin with.

 

Interesting reading with some very good info.

I agree that we may have them hooked up wrong - I'll do some more research and see what we can come up with.

Keeping the oil out of the loop is a good idea, so it is worth pursuing for sure!

Randy

 

Disclaimer: You may ignore this post if you dare, but you ARE NOT risking performance and engine damage.

Our catch can was the first offered for the mini cooper, and we are the first ones that came up with the routing how to hook it up. We still feel our way is the right way. (there are 2 ways to hook this up)

Connecting both valve cover vents to the catch can will catch all the oil that could possibly get into the IC track. One person said they had our catch can installed and noticed some watery stuff (perfectly normal, more on this later) then they removed the IC to see if there was any oil. Unless there was a couple of months of drving on this, and the IC was cleaned of oil previous, I would garrantee there would still be oil in IC. In stock form, the grey line that we tell people to cap off (more on this later also) goes directly behind the TB in front of the SC. This area sees high vacuum under idle conditions, and light throttle. Under full throttle conditions, there is a very minimal amount of vacuum. This minimal amount is the same vacuum seen in the intake tube connect to the TB. (catch can spigot hooked up to this connection)

What I am getting at is since MINI decided to hook the PCV hose up to the SC inlet, instead of the manifold, like 99% of all manufactures, this sucks all the oil and vapor into the SC and IC, causing lots of problems with poor IC inefficiency, and poor sealing of the boost tube couplers. Most every single engine in the world hooks the PCV line to the manifold, so any of the oil that does blow through the system get ingested by the engine, not into IC and other things like turbos, SC's, BOV's......

Using logic regarding these points, we say to plug to grey hard line (pcv connection providing high vacuum) and hook up both the vents on the top of the motor to the catch can. Then from the catch can to the vacuum port on the intake hose. This connection supplies the vacuum needed to remove the oily/watery vapor from the engine.

This is how no more oil and watery crap gets sucked back into the IC and boost tube and...............

This method is pruven to work and those who have our catch can hooked up this way will testify to that. Now some of the ALTA catch can owners might not see anything in the cans, this is very possible. Depending on Temps, boost, milage, if they race, stacit compression, these will all change how and what you will find in the can.

A normally operating engine that never is raced will see hardly anything in the can. Someone that drives their car moderately, races it once and while, will see that nasty oily water crap. Then there are those people who will see OIL. If you are only catching pure and lots of it, generally these people have blown rings, or something causing low static compression.

Simply hooking up the catch can the way we say to (blocking off the grey hose), actually eliminates much of the oil sucked into the IC and boost tubes. Simply for the reason that there is no longer tons of vacuum being applied to the engine crankcase sucking that oil into the wrong places.

"If this is the case then why don't I just block off my factory grey hose and run both vents to the intake hose?"
This is bad because under boost, pressure in the engine builds up from blow-by, which happens in every engine, esspecially boosted ones. The rings on the pistons don't actually seal 100%. There is a small gap where the 2 halves come together. There is also a slight amount leaking around the ring grooves machined into the pistons. After the engine heats up, the gap closes, but still not 100%! When the piston comes to TDC and the big bang happens, the thousands of PSI explode the piston down and some of that pressure escapes around the rings and in the block. This is where our can comes into play. Under boost there is a flow of the vapors in the engine being pushed out the valve cover vents and into the can (storing it). At the same time the intake hose is providing vacuum to the can, to help suck out the pressure. The vacuum being applied at this time is not enough to collapse it EVER! (more on this later also)

Now MINImotor thinks that it is so important to hookup the PCV system. He is giving you a good description how it works, but its not that big of a deal. There is no need for this added vacuum at idle other than to help with emissions. There is not one performance, or engine life adding benefit to doing this. If anyone truly can say what damage can occur from this I would love to hear it! I would also love to the see the DYNO results of the engine while it is idling with it hooked up or not. Under boost there is a benefit to the vacuum in the block, and that doens't change with our can. Some of you might be agreeing with this statement about a bad PCV system creates light throttle drivability problems because this is a problem on the mini. The problem is caused by that poorly sprug bypass valve that doens't stay shut under light throttle, not from the PCV system. Once again I have never had any drivability problems with the grey hose being blocked off.

"Racers pay big bucks for specialized crankcase vacuum pumps to increase performance and reliability beyond the typical PCV system." Your right on NA engines not boosted engines.


I am not saying you can't hook a catch can up to the grey line, because you can. In fact on my car I use 2 cans, on one the PCV and one on the valve/crank case vents. The can that is hooked to the PCV has an aluminum tube in it that supports the can under the high vacuum. This is something everyone can do if they choose to hook it up this way.

Points to follow up on!

OILY water crap. This is the oil/water vapors mixed together that you see in the can. This is perfectly normal, and nothing to worry about unless you fill it up every day!

Collapsing the can. The Alta catch can isn't designed to see the ulta high vacuum in the manifold, as you would get hooking it to the grey line. Even though it isnt' meant to work this way it can be made to very easy. Anyone that calls us and orders a catch can, can ask for a support for the can to hook it up to the grey line. Only recommending this to people that buy 2 catch cans. The customer that bought our catch can and had it collapse on him, was offered a replacement cost for the can since it was hooked up wrong. Which he admitted to and was perfectly fine with buying another one. I even suggested to buy the tube and I would send a free aluminum sleeve to support the vacuum.

Silicone isn't compatible with oil! Funny how neither is most rubber! Give your mini a few years and feel the rubber hoses that consist of the PCV system, they will be soft enough vacuum will collapse it or very hard and brittle. Rubber brakes down with the heat the engine puts off and from the oil. If those hoses were high quality silicone like ours they would be nearly the same durometer as they were when they were new. I have seen some silicone that oil seems to seep out from. This once again isn't a problem. If it was, you would think all the Boost hoses we make would be falling apart, but they are not. Neither is SAMCO and many other silicone manufactures. The oil molecules are smaller than the silicone and they leak out slightly, like air in your tires leaks out slightly. Our silicone hoses we use are not pure silicone they have things in them that help fight the oil seeping out the line. If anyone has this problem, please call or send pictures. We will take car of you.

I hope this clears some questions up with the ALTA catch can, and if anyone has questions, please call, or post I would love to discuss.

ALTA PERFORMANCE

 

Here is how I have my catch can hooked up. Have only collected about 1/2 a can of watery stuff in 6 months, but my IC is clean!

 

Alta Performance/Perrin:

Very informative, and I would also recommend TWO cans as you have stated in the paragraphs and as you currently run on your own cars. This would include the Subaru's, EVO's, SRT-4's, and MINI's correct?

Please call Ethan Bayer (I know you know of whom I speak) and discuss the ramifications of not having the PVC/valvecover venting properly hooked up and its influence on power/driveability. Sven should also have a good viewpoint on this.

And, since you brought it up, while most emissions band-aids are detrimental to power production, the addition of an ALTA Performance catch can (I'll be expecting my swag for the plug) eliminates the detrimental side of the PCV system- allowing oil into the engine induction system. PCV ensures good ring sealing (+ for power), equilization of pressure in the cranckcase (+ for longevity of seals), and to ensure the crankcase is not PRESSURIZED (+ longevity, + power).

The only reason I posted was not to bash ALTA Performance/Perrin, but to ensure the lessons learned from OEM aftermarket engineering teams who study the effect of commonly added aftermarket components to their cars and the long term (50,000+ mile simulated durability) effects could be trickled down to end users.

To help educate, I plan on buying a selection of oil catch cans from ebay that most users have, installing them and recording relative pressures in different areas of the system under different load conditions.

There is more I could go into but I believe this has been beaten to death.

Simple answer- buy two cans, put them inline in the respective hoses, and sleep well knowing you did good.

 

MINImotor,
I didn't think you were bashing at all, its just that some of the mini community might see this and think that a using a catch can will cause harm to their engine. And it won't as we both are agreeing to.

By the way, your exlpanation on the PCV system is very good and anyone that wants to know how it works should read your post.

Call us for your special deal on 2 catch cans!



ALTA performance

 

Can I get three? I need one to collect all the liquid spewing out my car's ****. Who ever designed the condensate tube inside the rear muffler has his head up his a$$!

BTW, did you ever get a one-on-one (or is that a threesome?) with Gina and David?

 

The New Exhaust Catch can is ready! It requires some welding though.

You can eliminate the condensation in the muffler pretty easy. Just don't turn off your engine...........ever!

ALTA performance

 

I just upgraded my by-pass valve with better ajustment and a stiffer spring. Here's what I saw in my intake.......

Anyway, I looked at e-bay for catch cans, and I found this.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...940714125&rd=1

Look familiar?

Matt

 

wow, that's one hell of a need to sound good.

I'm the guy who called Alta about the catch can falling apart because of the vacuum and the way I hooked it up is NOT ( according to 2 of 3 people @ Alta) the wrong way, it works. Only problem is the can needs to be replaced every 10 months or so due to tears inside the can. At Twenty bucks a pop for the silicone tubing, I'll be reinforcing it instead with some PVC pipe before it's starts leaking.

Now you guys suggest 2 cans be installed if we don't connect the system as you recommend. After 30,000+ miles, there is no oil vapor residue running down inside my Alta (red) intake tube. A slight discoloration is all that's there at best. Popped off the intercooler for inspection and it was CLEAN as a whistle, did not require a degreasing at all. The can works, it just does not last that long.

 

I originally only collected water too when I hooked up the can this way and your right, your IC is clean... on the outside. Believe me, if all your catching is water, then the OIL is still going somewhere...

 

Looks nice ... but it's missing something ... like a logo.

Edit: I had linked the picture of the M7 catchcan in this spot, but Peter Horvath whined about it, so instead, here is a link to the M7 website:

http://www.m7tuning.com/products/catchcan.htm

Notice how it is IDENTICAL to the much cheaper eBay one, only has a logo on it? Interesting, eh? :smile:

 

sfjames2,
The "water" that was being collected by the can in Scottinbend's car, as he mentioned as watery stuff, is not just water, it does have some oil in it. Also the fact that he and others say their IC is nice and clean does show our catch can does work, and that the oil is doing 2 things.
1. Being trapped in the catch can.
2. And or simply not being sucked into the intake by the change in the PCV system we do.

This all comes back to why we explain to hook the catch can up the way we do. Capping off the grey hose stops much of the oil going through the system. This works period. The other place the oil come out of is the valve cover vents (which can't be capped off, for obvious reasons), and that is why the can is hooked to them.

SFjames2,
We also never said hooking up the catch can the way you did is wrong (me being one of the 2 people you talked to) we just said that if you were going to do something other than our INSTRUCTIONS say, you will need to modify the can with a support. I still don't know why it ripped though which is really strange??

Also when you asked about the replacment cost for the CC body, and i said $20 you didn't balk one bit. Like at any company buying small parts that make the big part is always more expensive. We surely in the end were tyring to help you out by offering you free shipping and a 2.75" aluminum tube to supprt the can to help offset the $20.

You don't have to replace your catch can tube every 10 months if you support it. This isn't something we expain in our instructions because the way the instructions say to hook the catch can up (blocking off the grey hose) works!

I am glad your catch can is working and that your IC is clean. Your engine is obviously one that has less blow by than others. I had a customer call today that has so much oil blow by that his IC couplers are leaking oil out the bottom and pooling, also has oil on the back window! He car has has a 15% pulley and a chip for 84K, or 64k (can't remember) and has been run pretty hard.

This brings me to anther point all MINI owners should be concerned with. Beside makeing the IC less efficient, the oil in the intake can also cause boost leaks! Once the oil is pooling up in coupler and starts to seep out the intake onto the engine, a leak has begun. Since the oil doesn't help seal the rubber to the aluminum, under vacuum it will leak and under boost. As most people that have pulled off their IC they will notice how loose the couplers are. With our IC diverter we sell, we include special couplers which are much stiffer and thicker (stock coupler .190" and ours .225"), and will seal better. Also since there i no hump in the hose, less restrictive. For this reason alone we are now going to start selling them by them selves for $30.

ALTA MINI PERFORMANCE

 

James,

I am catching ALL of the vapor. My IC is clean inside and out. I am not "sucking" anything from the valve cover now, just using the intake. The oil is not being sucked out of the valve cover now.

 

Thanks for the explaination.

Will the new IC boots be available in different colors?

 

Mine used to just catch water/oil when installed as instructed by Alta but at a very slow rate. Now that I have it connected to the SC's gray tube (other vent to K/N vent filter), it collects just oil and more frequently. I don't have problems with the silicon condensor other that it collapsing under vacume with this new routing but I solved that with a PVC insert.

 

I e-mailed the e-bay store directly and just ordered two for $79 incuding shipping. Let's see how it works out!

Matt

 

Take some pictures of the eBay one. Make sure you use a small aperture to get an artsy, narrow depth of field.

 

deja, baby: post 36?

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...0&page=2&pp=25

 

Meh, first of all, you don't have a logo on yours. Second, your photography is not nearly artsy enough.

 

it is the e-bay, logoless (and therefore artless? )