Just curious, does anyone ever modify the CVT for better performance? I see plenty of discussion on mods to the S, but none for automatic transmissions.

Also, are there any rumors that a S version of the CVT will be coming in the next two years?

 

A couple people in our local club have flashed their CVT MC's with Franz Holzl's software (MTH Powerchip)... Another guy in our club has done everything under the sun to his CVT MC - intake, exhaust, header, ported/polished head, Shrick cam, throttle body, etc., etc... it's a pretty fun ride, even though it's CVT!

 

In January '05, you will be able to get a Cooper S with an automatic transmission with shifter paddles on the steering wheel. It won't be a CVT but will be a regular automatic transmission.

 

I really love this CVT transmission (even if it is a little slow off the line -- but so is every other MINI including MCS). So much so that I don't know whether to keep it and mod it (much as scobib mentions), or get one of the auto MCS's. I keep going back and forth on it. Tough call. Especially with JCW to consider or aftermarket pulleys, etc. Just when you think you have all the answers, they change the questions.

 

Just be mindfull of exhausts, as with the Helix in particular, the transmission wants to stay in the rpm range that is the loudest with it. I do not know if any of the others are better or worse.

I do know that Diamond Racing group races them so you may want to ask them.

I'd do brakes though if you wanted to autocross. That would allow better breaking while you still kept tension in the transmission in the corners. Just what I was told after someone raced my old CVT and missed 1st in his class by .2 seconds...

 

Also remember that the CVT transmission was not designed to take more torque and hp. So, if you mod the engine, you may break the CVT. We've just learned of these CVT limits relatively recently. No one really knows just what the CVT transmission can take and what it can't. We'll have to learn from experience.

ZF is the maker of the CVT transmission. ZF makes the CVT for the Audi TT too, and it can handle that car's 180 hp. However, MINI asked ZF to only make the transmission to be able to handle its 115 hp (probably to save money). So ZF put in a smaller steel drive belt isntead of the heavy duty one used in the Audi. This is probably why ZF doesn't recommend any engine mods at all!

I have a CAI and cat back exhaust on my CVT MINI, but these don't add too much hp, so I'm probably at 120 or 125 hp is all. I have to really think about doing any more mods. I initially wanted to eventually do the engine mods scobib mentioned in his post (down the road), but am now reluctant due to this. Instead I could just trade up to the MCS auto, or keep my CVT MC and get a second fun car, i.e., used Toyota MR2 with Sequential Manual Transmission and upgrade that engine. I don't think using the paddle shifters in the MCS auto will be as fun to drive as manually shifting in the CVT, so I'm a little reluctant to go that route, although the power of the MCS would be awesome, especially with a JCW kit or aftermarket upgrades. If the MCS was getting an SMT, that would be much better than the regular auto it is getting -- but it's not -- too bad.

 

I bought my CVT MC and I knew beforehand that I wasnt going to be the quickest thing on the road. Speed wasnt the reason I bought the car. I got the car because of the history and the most recent version of The Italian Job

So I went the suspension route and got H-Sport front and rear sways and H&R springs. I would rather have my car on rails than be fast...its quick enough for me :smile:

Also, I got the Supersprint cat-back exhaust and I knew that the gain was minimal if none at all. It sounds nice and that was what I was going for. I guess in the end, just as long as my car looks and sounds nice. I will be content, but who knows when that is?!?

-Chris

 

Well said Chris.

The CVT is such a unique transmission and a lot of fun to drive, with so many different modes, i.e., Sport Drive, and 6-speed with regular auto mode as an overdrive (7th speed). I've just recently started using the Sport Drive (SD) and have found it to be the fastest mode. I was not that happy with the off the line speed of the 6 speed mode, but the SD is quick enough off the line, not really fast but quick enough. I also love shifting both up and down the 6 "gears". I like it so much that I would be hard-pressed to give it up for the paddle shifters on the auto MCS, and today (my thoughts change regularly ) think that I would not unless the auto MCS came with JCW. I don't really want 2 cars at this point in time (my wife doesn't drive).

Rumours have it that the auto transmission in the MCS due out in Jan 2005 will be made by Aisin, a top notch Japanese transmission making company, who makes transmissions for other cars. It will be a "normal" type of auto, and we think it will be a 6-speed with paddle shifters on the steering wheel, which should be a real treat. Although personally I like shifting with a gear **** as with the CVT (although some CVTs have the paddle shifters), but I've never tried the paddles. Hopefully, the auto in the MCS will be able to handle increased hp and torque from engine mods, but we don't know anything yet at this point in time as MINI has made no announcements on this. Aisin makes 6-speed auto transmissions that can handle 200 hp, so we'll keep our fingers crossed.

 

There's another thing to consider if you are thinking about getting either a CVT MC or auto MCS, and that's getting respect or attention or exposure. And by attention I don't mean visible attention in the car, but getting noticed on this site, such as for questions or posts, etc. People don't pay a lot of attention to the CVT MC and don't give it the attention it deserves. Everyone is focused on the MCS. For example, look at how many people viewed this thread. As of now, only 123. Also look at how many people viewed the other thread below this one titled, "Ordered 05 Cooper CVT", as only 83 have viewed that one. Compare this to the other performance threads here and you'll see much higher numbers, i.e., 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, even in the thousands. So, the CVT MC gets overlooked. I don't like to say it, but it appears true. That has been discouraging for me. When I have posted something good about the CVT performance, some one will reply that they drove it once and it was slow, etc. So, although it is a very fun car to drive, as 2perCooper says, speed is not it's main benefit.

 

The CVT has a ton of potential...but it does get overlooked sometimes. A lot of MINI owners think that there car will be faster when they notice that mine is a CVT...but once they follow me into the corners they can see that its worthy. I havent done much in terms of engine. Just an exhaust and intake, but they have definitely helped the car go faster. I lowered the weigh of my car by getting lighter wheels/tires, and removing the rear seats which helped a ton. And then have the usual suspension mods to help the car when things get fun:smile: . You have to be proud of your CVT...it has a lot of ups that most people wont see on ther test drive or first experience. There are so many tricks to learn that will allow you to use it to your full potential.

In terms of us learning that it cant hold much power...i dont believe it. About a year ago a group of CVT owners and i were in connection with ZF who make the tranny, and they assured us 165 was the highest they would take it. I would never drive any other slushbox, but the CVT is like no other auto-tranny

 

Good words RallyMINI. CVT owners who drive their cars spiritedly do appreciate their cars and the potential they can reach. About the 165 number you quote. I remember back when people on the MINI2 site were checking on this -- with ZF, and the 165 was referring to torque, but it was in Nm which is different than ftlbs. I think the equivalent Nm in ftlbs was close to the stock torque on the CVT. So, ZF does not really recommend torque and hp upgrades to the engine. I'm tempted to go for it and upgrade inside the engine in a couple of years, but am hesitant. Don't know what I'll do. But I absolutely love driving the CVT and don't know if the auto MCS (even with JCW) would give me as much a thrill. That's how good the CVT is, when you have to rack your brain for that decision.

 

While it is true that the MCS has easily many more engine mods to do, there is quite a bit to offer in an MC with CVT for street use, autocross or just daily commuting.

The CVT is extremely versatile and much better than a normal auto transmission.

For modding an MC with CVT the normal things to think about are:
Intake upgrades- drop in filter or full cold air intake- gains are limited but good.
Cat-back exhaust- lots of choices for about 4+ HP and lots more growl.
Spark plug wires- magnecor is OK

Exhaust header doesn't really do much and is costly
Other ignition upgrades are limited.
Larger throttlebody -only small gains and costly
Cylinder head and cam- some gains but costly

ECU upgrades- possible especially if GIAC offered something

Now- what you can do is suspension upgrades and lighter wheels with good non runflat tires. Think about saving weight if you can't increase power that much. The MC is a lighter MINI so take advantage of that.

The other aspect is to "learn how to drive the CVT"- it isn't like a normal automatic. Once you figure it out, it is really a nice transmission.

 

several places have begun testing coopers with turbos, you can get a serious power boost but as outlined above, the cooper can probably keep up real well with Ses on corners, and for the mini that wat counts

i love cvt, i've driven one as a courtesy car and love the sport mode... yet can easily relax in auto

if i drove a cvt, i'd do intake and exhaust, and instead of working on power, light weight rims (like REAL light ones) with good rubber, sway bars, coils, and you can keep up with alot of things on corners!

cylinder head would be nice to have on a cooper though.. i doubt there'd be as much gains as a S but still its noticeable

 

Yes, this is a fact. I've come to deal with it. By the way, I've succeeded in doing so.

Try to keep your chin up, jazmini. All's good in the Sequentialhood

 

Thanks for the good words Erik. Yes, I'm appreciating the CVT more and more as time goes by. I do some spirited drives that I really enjoy!
Everyone's input on the mods are all excellent.
Minihune and kyriian -- yes the GIAC chip (if and when one comes out) would be really outstanding. The head should make a good difference that would really open up the power increases with other mods too, i.e., so that the engine would breath better and then the header (and intake) would help even more. And light weight wheel/tire combo would be killer, as weight reduction would help a lot. Good advice all on everything. Now, I'm really getting into all this!

 

Great to hear:smile:

 

Part of my problem is having used the A/C all summer. This morning I did not use it (69 degrees at first) and even with my wife in the car, it was noticeably quicker. [Normally I drive both myself and a friend to work, so was used to an extra 175 lbs in the car with A/C too.] Shifts in the sequential mode were noticeably quicker too, and the power after shifting was stronger and more linear. It seems fast enough, even off the line seemed quick. Felt sooo good! I just love this CVT MINI! With more mods it can be even better.

What may be the best mods are ones that lighten the car. Tires and wheels may be the best first things to do, i.e., 15 inch such as SSR Comps or Volks are the best of the light but strong wheels, and Toyo Proxes T1-S are the lightest good tires. M7 has promised light weight parts, and has some on the market already. Carbon fiber bonnet (hood) is a good idea. MINI Pilo is presently working on one too, and hopefully the hatchback too. Cutting weight can be expensive though. But I personally think it's the best way to improve the CVT MINI performance. I like the carbon fiber parts, but will want them to work well functionally. I like the way the MINI bonnet and hatchback lift themselves once you start to open them, so would not like to give that up. Plus, they have a real solid thunk when you close them -- but that's what weight does for you. I haven't seen the M7 one though -- but his is just for MCS. I think he has said that his car weight is down to 2200 lbs. Awesome!

 

If you are willing, taking out the rear seats really helps lose weight too. So if you never use them then i highly suggest that...it also increases storage capacity a lot:smile: Along the same lines, racing seats will lose weight and provide greater control

 

Hey Rally,

That's something I may do very far down the road,
when the MINI is a second fun car and no longer my daily driver --
along with changing out the steering wheel,
as M7 has said the airbags are quite heavy too,
so getting rid of those should help. But that's really far away. :smile:

 

[I come in peace, jazmini.]

Remove that airbag?? Too extreme a mod (safetywise), don't you think?

 

Whoa! I'd feel that was too far, myself.

I wanted to chime in here and say I really appreciate seeing this thread, because like some of you, I feel like the CVT is often forgotten in the performance arena and doesn't seem to get much discussion.

Lately I have also been thinking that the best way to improve performance is to find more ways to cut weight. Do you all have an opinion about what incremental amount of weight (sprung or unsprung) makes a noticeable (seat-of-the-pants) difference?

 

The way i read it, he was talking about removing the rear airbags if he removed the rear seats? which wouldnt be a safety hazard because no one would be sitting back there

And if you remove the front seats, you are losing the lower side airbags as well:smile: . But with that, the seats and harness are going to protect you far better than a lower side airbag. Which is always good.

It looks like there is a lot of CF on its way, which may help. Someone else on my team has totally gutted the interior and says its amazing what that has done for her car. So there are lots of methods to losing weight..heck you could even go to the gym and work out . Losing weight is the best because it improves your car on all fields...performance, handling, braking

 

i know of a guy running a CVT Cooper who got a host of go fast goodies. if i remember right he put in a new Cam, exhaust, intake, springs, sway bar, and a few other things. ryan (ryephile) did the install and has the complete list of the equipment installed. although i have not been in the car, the sheer difference in the exhaust note is AMAZING! the sound alone is worth the upgrades.

 

I prefer the exhaust note on CVTs...they stay right in the right range to hear that amazing growl throughout your acceleration.

Speaking of exhausts and CVTs...this is something i have been wondering for a while and still have yet to find out. Do you think that the CVTs have higher performance gains from things like exhaust and intake then on the same car but with 5-speed manual? My thought process is this. All of the exhausts on the market mostly only show gains on the higher RPMs and since the CVT stays up in those RPMs for a greater amount of time we would be experiencing more of the benefits of the mods right? I'm not saying its a huge difference, its probably barely even noticable, but i was just wondering i that logic makes sense.

I'm currently running a borla and love the tone.

 

Hey erik -- Removing the airbags is something to do in 10 years, when I retire and am not commuting, and the MINI is just a fun car. You're right that this is not to be taken lightly. It is not for the car driver who tailgates. My driving style is to keep a large distance from the car ahead, i.e., 1 car length for every 10 mph. So, I'll probably never run into the back of anyone. Besides, I am small (so what ) but have short arms, so am real close to the steering wheel. If the airbag goes off, it could kill me or injure me. So, for me I don't even want it. M7 has joked about airbags saying there's nothing like an airbag exploding right in your face.

As far as weight goes, I agree with Rally. Reduced weight is the best way to gain performance as it benefits everything. You can really tell a big difference when you carry someone else with you, and can still feel a slight difference when you have a full tank of gas versus 1/4 tank. Gas weighs about 6 lbs or more per gallon, so a tankful at 13 gal's weighs about 80 lbs or so. So, having just a quarter tank saves over 50 lbs. But you'd have to fill up more often, and if you get stuck in traffic you could run out of gas, so I don't worry about gas weight savings, but just wanted to show that is something that makes a difference. The biggest thing I have just noticed is when you run the A/C it zaps power and CVT performance. So, it's great that fall is on the way.

Here's what I think is a good light wheel/tire combo:
Larger wheels look cool, but add weight. 15 inchers are much lighter. The stock MINI 7 holes are already light at 12 lbs. I've got the 8-spokes at 15 lbs, and plan on getting lighter 15 inchers, but not for awhile yet. A good light performance tire is Toyo Proxes T1-S -- lightest tire I've heard of. A good combo IMO is wheels in 15 x 6.5 and tires in 195/55/15. This size tire also is 1/2 inch smaller in diameter giving a faster start off the line, i.e., 24 inch normal but this combo is 23.5 inches or so. The Toyo's weigh only 16.5 lbs or so, and you can get wheels around 9.5 lbs (SSR Comps or Volks) for a total of 26 lbs. Larger Toyo's weigh at least 1 and 1/2 lbs more if I remember right, so that's why I like this size. Stock 7 holes weigh slightly over 12 lbs and stock Continental all season 165/65/15 tires weigh slightly over 14 lbs, for a total of about 26.5 lbs.

It's hard to reduce weight with a wheel/tire combo for the MC as stock weights are already low. But my goal is to not gain any weight there and to try to lose something too.

Carbon fiber stuff will be great, that's for sure!