Andy,


Have you found that the Goodyear Gator belt performs differently than the NAPA?

 

I haven't gotten my hands on one yet. I need to come up with at least one other thing to buy from Summit to justify the handling charge.

 

in addition to the tensioner, which is a spring loaded, ball bearing steel wheel, there is also a fixed postion idler, same wheel and bearing. Both wheels are the back-to-back stamped steel version. In my analysis, the attachment of the fixed idler to the block could be improved by a simple spacer; the casting portion of the tensioner wheel assembly is fairly robust, however an over-aggessive installer could deform the casting and throw the wheel-to-belt relationship out of whack (this could happen if too much bicep hp is used when releasing the belt tension to remove belts.)

by the way, it isn't clear which piece is being replaced by the "Cosworth style idler"; my guess (duh): it is the idler.

 

I have 19% pulley using NAPA belt 060535. After 6000 miles, including two track week-ends, the belt seems to be wearing normally. It does appear to have stretched as I can no longer see any holes in tensioner. I don't know for sure, but seeing another 19% install with NAPA belt I probably started with 1 hole exposed (no wise cracks )

I purchased Gatorback belt at Autozone for ~$23 and noticed it is 3/8" longer than new NAPA belt. I have concersn that Gatorback is already starting out longer than NAPA belt. It seems 19% pulley needs even shorter belt than 060535.

I haven't installed Gatorback yet and I am reluctant even though I understand the technology behind the belt.

 

I just went down to my local "Goodyear Tire Center" and they had one in stock.

 

Do you think the Cosworth style idler from bbr (http://www.bbrgti.com/mini.php) fixes this? They are really adamant about replacing this item and have broken them when pushing the hp.

 

BBR MINI COOPER S PHASE 4 275 = Serious motoring!
I have NO reservations as to their claims, they even post the numbers.
Look at their history, http://www.bbrgti.com/history.php
Who they are, http://www.bbrgti.com/two_bs.php
Notice that at this point (PHASE 4) they have developed a fixed tension belt drive assembly, trying to stay on topic here about belts. Wondering what brand of belt they are running or is it they have found out why they fail and fixed that problem.
My point is that this company has done the R&D they have the product plus the inhouse developed software they aren't still poking around, experimenting and finding out what breaks next. To be clear there are Tuners and there are parts swappers we need MINI tuners in the USA or a BBR-GTI supported shop here.

 

INorm:

t does look like they are well into it.

In your opinion, what do you think they mean by a "Cosworth style idler?" Idler or tensioner?

If you note, for the fixed belt in the stage 4 system they have also replaced the supercharger which no doubt has some sort of belt tension allowance built into its bracket (slotted mounting holes?).

I took a careful look at their pictures and website, and noted that:
- their high flow intercooler adapts to the stock snoots, turn 90 degrees forward, 90 degrees down, does a 180 wihtin the front mount intercooler, turns 90 to the rear, turns 90 into the snoot adapter. Lots of tubing length and a lot of turns;(1695Lbs, $3,000);
-they want 195Lbs ($350) for the idler, and in the picture of the phase 1 kit it seems to be simply a wheel/bearing replacement;
-they spec some sort of replacement drive flange for the supercharger...no idea what that is;
-unclear what their perfomance suspension is...they do claim it uses the stock spring rates...coilovers? anti-roll bars? camber adjustment? control arms? bushings?

-go hog wild: the full phase 4 is only 15,000Lbs ($27,000).

 

I have searched for Cosworth idlers and the only reference to such a thing comes from BBR's website.

I say it's time for a Golmer drive setup for the MINI.

 

Andy,


I did the search as well, although BBR claims that it is their design and not another product sourced for this solution.

Their 275hp looks really cool and was tested by Top Gear. A while ago the video of the show was on this site and it looked really cool.

 

That would be $weet! Very $weet!

 

[font=Arial]HI Our Cosworth idler pulley cost is £195, plus £25 for shipping, just mail us your C/C and full billing details and allow 2days to ship, regards Mick at BBR.[/font]
[size=2][font=Arial] BRING MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/font][/size]

 

Woops! I meant Gilmer not Golmer. Who put those keys next to eachother on my keyboard?

 

In my opinion, we have some of the best here in the States, as well as some experts doing their own thing - jlm for example. I don't know how much time any of the other tuners spend at the track, but here, we spend quite a bit. We also use the dyno, real world driving with some excellent data aquisition, and work with several manufacturers as well as design our own parts. I'm not sure what else would qualify one as a tuner, but I know we make some kick butt cars that are reliable. We have done that by researching which parts do work well together, and which don't, then developing what we need to.

There are also other great guys doing there own development - Charles Rossier at RDR and Eric Savage at Helix 13 for example. All of us have been involved in developing not only suspension parts, but ECU programs and engine bits as well.

Just my two cents :smile:

Randy

 

Here has been my experience with 19% pulley belts:


Every single brand will fail when pushed. If you drive the car on the street with "normal" behavior, the belts will last for a good period of time. Once you start to push the car - extended high load or high RPM driving - it will fail quickly.

The belts I have had the most luck with are actualy a little bit longer than the ones most are using, and I belive that is due to the additional tension, and as a byproduct - heat, that the smaller belts generate. Whenever I did have a belt failure, the belt looks almost melted, so it is obviously a heat related issue.

Here are the belts I have used:

NAPA 25-060535
NAPA 25-060539
Dayco 060539
Dayco 060537
Dayco 060535
Goodyear 060537
Goodyear 060539

Of the above belts, the Dayco and Goodyear appear to be the same. The 539 belts last the longest under track conditions.

At the West Meets East, there were three new MINIs with 19% pullies, and all had failures. Both of the other cars had multiple failures with the 060535, whereas I only had one with the 060539.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

I hope this is not a stupid question, but would a small fan positioned on the pulley/belt contact area help any with heat dissipation? Is this even a feasible consideration?

 

This relates back to my comment in #7 of this thread. We may not be too far of base in our thinking on this. I think something as simple as a duct directing air to the belt may be effective. Similar to brake ducting. I'll be under my car tonight, I have an idea of opening up the plastic under-engine shield and installing a deflector of sorts...we'll see.

 

I don't know if you've been busting belts Bisch, but from what Randy said (it seems that he can bust one on "will"), the melting or deformation he shared depicts excessive heat. Maybe just carrying that away will do the trick. Also, it should be easy to take a temp on the belt and pulley with the proper tool, a before and after being helpful. Having someone like Randy track it hard to the "normal" failure point, with the proper routing of air, or fan would be most ideal though. And to do so with the slightly larger belt, than the smaller ones... If both could be made bullet-proof via this means, I would tend to think that the smaller one would be more desirable due to the longer one's inclination to slip, at least over time...

Bisch, share a photo or two of what you decide to do, if anything. Since I believe you have gone with an HAI, you might be able to use some of that plumbing for routing materials, if you can't find anything else...

Edit/addition: I just saw you post (#7). I didn't see it earlier. Sorry about that. I guess no one took the ball and ran with it... I think there is something there though.

 

I just ordered a replacement CCV/hose from MINI of Peabody and asked what they carry for supercharger belts. They have one made by Gates for the JCW kits for a reasonable price, so I ordered it. It may very well be the exact same thing as a NAPA 535 or 539 (my 535 was labelled as made by Gates), but we'll find out when I install it.

 

Does anyone have any pics of these failed belts. Any signs of slippage/burning prior to failure? Any indications of stretching (how much of the hole was showing?).


[font=Usherwood-Book][size=1][/size][/font]

 

Old belt / new belt:



More belt and tensioner pics here:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=22199

 

I stopped at my local, rather large, Goodyear car care center this morning. I asked if they might stock the Goodyear Gatorback poly v- belts.

The reply was: "We are a Goodyear dealer."
me:"I know...so...you have the belts?"
him:"what size?"
me:"I have the part number right here."
him:"...that's not a number."
Now the manager joins..."what size is it?"
me:"This is a belt, not a tire. It's a Goodyear Gatorback poly v-belt"
manager:"We are a Goodyear dealer."
at this point I almost asked him "who's on first?"

me:"I figured the best place to buy a Goodyear product would be here, at a Goodyear dealer."

by this time a couple people in the waiting room started to chuckle.

manager:"We don't sell any belts here. Try NAPA."

I nearly ***** myself!!

 

Bisch -


My Goodyear dealer was able to find the belt in his computer but was very distraught when I couldn't give him a car model and year. When I pointed to the car out front and told him what I needed it for they got a little excited and dug deep into the multitude of unused neurons and pulled it out of the bag.

Try going west about 50 miles.

 

HERE marks the spot of my 1000th post! Further proof that I have way too much spare time.




...when do I hit 6th gear anyway?