I've been reading these boards lately and have heard quite a bit about upcoming Dinan offerings. Just some thoughts from an owner...

I have one of thir superharger kits on my BMW. Overall they are just way overpriced and have moments of both good and horrible customer service (BTW I only went to their Mountain View shop).

To give an example if you look at a performance mod for the M roadsters/ coupes, you will see the 3.38 rear diff listed as a performance option for $3083 + $1750 core. It just so happens that that is the same differential sold by BMW I think for the E36 M3 auto (could be another M3 config but it is a stock diff), and for less than 1/2 the price, directly from BMW.

Their stage 2 lightweight flywheel/ clutch assembly is not an amazing clutch setup for $2099, it is really the stock E34 M5 clutch + a corresponding lightweight flywheel. This is basically UUC's $870 kit (albeit with a heavier flywheel). Same concept same clutch, pay $1200 more for an inferior lightweight flywheel.

They claim 9hp 7lb-ft from their M roadster/coupe exhaust... I have NEVER out of probably 20+ exhaust upgrade dynos seen more than 2-3whp and torque from ANY exhaust system. In fact I have seen a M roadster with a full S2 kit (minus the cosmetic elements like floormats) costing $5,000+ make 10hp and <4 lb-ft more than my car when it was stock.

Bottom line anything short of one of their supercharger kits is overpriced and likely underperforming. They are also famous for engineering parts that are off the shelf BMW components with Dinan price multipliers of 2-3x.

As a Dinan BMW owner I can tell you that if your dealer is an authorized Dinan dealer then you shouldn't have problems with warranty issues. I went to Allison BMW (BMW of Mountain View now and wasn't a Dinan dealership) with my car and they said they wouldn't touch anything with Dinan on it.

Positives for Dinan are that they usually get their stuff CARB certified (important if you live in CA) and I have had one really great experience with them (two nightmare ones too).

Personally, I don't think I would ever buy another Dinan product unless I needed a CARB legal supercharger system for a BMW S52 engine. They seem to be too expensive for what you get and have made a reputation with their excellent supercharger kits and selling mods to those who don't do research on boards like these yet have lots of money to throw at their BMW's.

Just a thought,
Patrick

 

Patrick,

Thanks for your insights on DINAN upgrades for BMWs.
DINAN has invested quite a bit of time doing upgrades for MINIs and probably wants to recoupe some of that R&D expense, hence the very high prices but not as high as JCW for their equivalent MCS kit stage 2.

Yes, it is true that if you know what you are doing then you can get better products for less and put them together in the combination you want. But DINAN offers a warranty for 4 years and your other options don't unless you go with JCW.

Yes, it is true that your dealership must be a DINAN authorized installer for the warranty from DINAN to be honored. That is important- it's not a MINI or BMW warranty. JCW is warranted by authorized MINI service centers not all BMW dealerships- same problem with the warranty.

The question is when will the DINAN stuff come out? One for curiosity sake and see if they can be innovative or like all the others. Two, to be competing with JCW and push the price down for the MCS kit and maybe the MC kit. Three to give us ideas on putting together a package of upgrades that might be better than what we already have figured out.

One comment on low HP and high prices. It is true that most of the upgrades we have for our MINIs are offer "limited" HP gains no matter what the claims are. This is a limitation of the engine design and our 1.6 liter engines. Anyone that is shooting for a 225 to 245 HP MCS is going to have to spend quite a few bucks to get there. Sure an exhaust is only going to offer about 4-5HP of true useable power no matter what the dyno shows. There are other intangibles that you get with the process of modding- the enjoyment of doing something different with a unique combination or the sound and feel of the upgrades that add to the enjoyment of driving.

So far we are still waiting on DINAN.

You might take a look at the JCW track/race upgrades that were announced some time ago. Or maybe look no further than M7.

 

I must agree with you but what is Dinan engineering here? With the fourth model year coming out I wonder what they are "engineering."

What I mentioned earleir is that Dinan really doesn't "engineer" very much. Most of their parts, at least for BMW's have been remarks standard BMW parts that they mark up the price of by a factor of at least two. I wouldn't be suprised if some of the '05 Mini's new features end up being Dinan's new products or the basis thereof.

The things that they do for themselves on the BMW are supercharger kits, exhausts, software, and maybe a few custom spec'd suspension parts. Software and superchargers they do a great job on.

Warranty... is a Mini Dealership a Mini Dealership? Is a Mini Dealership a Dinan Dealership? If I was concerned with a warranty no question I would go with JCW just because the coverage would be at all Mini dealerships vs a few of them.

All that being said, it will be interesting to see what Dinan ends up doing as either they are waiting for Mini to make something to remark and markup or they are making a mean stroker engine upgrade. Anything short of 215hp out of them and I doubt they will innovate in any major way. Note I mean 215hp on the dyno (minus drivetrain loss) not using Dinan's math.

As for JCW getting cheaper... I would suspect that will be a function of Mini changing things versus a Dinan entrant. Fact is that JCW still has the superior warranty which will always command a premium the way it does currently.

The reason for my comment is that what I have been reading on here sounds like people who just bought their BMW's and hear of Dinan the big name and think that Dinan is the best. For a few things they are... for the vast majority though they just ask their customers to part with more money than their competitors offering similar if not identical components.

I'm not too worried about my modifications, I'm just worried that people who do not understand exactly what Dinan is are expecting something that is well beyond what Dinan has a reputation for as Dinan is NOT a very innovative company when building the majority of their product line.

Maybe with Mini's that will miraculously change, which after 3 years I hope it would. If it doesn't, people ignorant of Dinan's past might be throwing money away needlessly which I think should be avoided.

Patrick

 

Patrick,

Your points and insight are well taken.

DINAN is "namebrand" upgrade product line. No disagreement that they may take the easy route to making upgrades.

Fourth model year looming and still no release of the first upgrades? Yup. It's a time warp out there. I guess they didn't get MINIs to do testing until late 2002 then worked on it for 2003 and did some more tweaks this year x 6 months and now we are getting set to see and drive the 2005 models. How time flys.

Well that doesn't leave us MINI owners in the US much to work with - not like in europe where we can go to several German tuners for upgrade kits and such.

So for those who can think for themselves we have this body of knowledge and experience on NAM and you can educate yourself about what seems reasonable for your needs and budget.

For those that like a warranty and want to just go for an upgrade kit then there are options but it will cost you. Maybe not as much innovation but it's likely to be quite reliable since they are offering some warranty. The problem is getting to a dealership that is an authorized MINI or DINAN service center since these are not always easy to reach for all of us.

 

hiya patrick,
thanks for the advice and warning on dinan. i have heard this from other bmw/mini users and its a good reminder to hear it again.
i was considering the jcw kit but there wasn't one available at the time of my purchase so i have since gone the alta pulley (with cooler plugs) and cai route and i'm now looking for a muffler, probably milltek or rspeed unless i can get a great deal on the borla race. my car runs better than ever and is fast and fun...

 

Actually, Dinan does engineer their parts. In the past, they used to tear apart and re-baffle factory BMW mufflers to give it a little more hp. This use of factory parts is what gave them that reputation. One of the reasons Dinan used to do this was due to the high quality of OEM BMW parts. Dinan now makes their own line of exhausts and no longer re-baffles stock mufflers.

Dinan engineers their own CAI systems and they are the benchmark of intake design for BMW tuners. Their engine management software may not be to everyone's liking as it is tuned more for top end performance as opposed to Jim Conforti's software that boosts hp for the low and mid range. An innovative product is Dinan's tranny software for automatics. When everyone was concentrating on chips and intakes, Dinan took the time to upgrade the shifting parameters of the automatic. Dinan has even engineered new intake manifold gaskets for BMW's V12 engines. The stock gasket will often have leaks after a few years and Dinan's gasket sandwiches the old gaskets to eliminate this leak. FYI, the stock gasket is @ $500 from the dealer. That is not a typo. It is a $500 part!

That being said, Dinan parts are expen$ive, but they are NOT just a "name" product. One must choose wisely as to what parts they want from Dinan. In the end, it is best to pick and choose the best products from all tuners.

FYI. I am the owner of 3 Dinan equipped BMWs. One of them is a true 10+ point Dinan with intake, exhaust, diff and software mods.

 

Perhaps it would be best to wait and see what Dinan has to offer for the MINI. (Just please hurry)

It's premature to speculate because not one of their upgrade products is released for sale.

Once that occurs then we can scrutinize the upgrades and pick and choose the winners. See if it all makes some sense.

Lets hope for the best afterall it's taken a long long time. Will it be worth the wait?? You can be the judge with your $$$.

 

http://www.flowfaster.com/catalog.cfm?car=15
Best price on Borla race when I bought mine plus excellent, fast, service and shipping was included in the price.

 

(another source is Helix13.com as they are an international distributor of Borla exhausts and can get you a very competitive price-tell them you heard it on NAM)

 

As for exhausts yes they do engineer their own. I would not say they are better than others but they do make their own.

Intakes yes they do design their own. My car had Dinan's stage 1 s/w and intake when I bought it prior to the installation of the 10 point supercharger system .

Two problems Dinan had with their CF downpipe intakes... the first is that the filters got dirty very quickly because they were more exposed to the elements directly. Along with that they also had major problems with the intakes sucking up water through the intake pipe. They ended up putting a filter condom to stop this but it also restricted airflow. Not the best engineering... but they look cool :smile: .

I will say that I am a huge fan of Dinan's software... it is great stuff hands down.

What diff does that 10+ pointer have? Hopefully not the 3.38 e36 diff because if it does that is literally one of the stock E36 M3 diffs. There is another old tale about how Dinan had a cam sprocket upgrade for the E30 M3, it turned out to be an EVO cam just remarked for triple the MSRP price.

BMW parts might be reliable, but re-marked parts that carry prices at multiples of the same parts from dealers is quite shady.

At this point though it will be interesting to see what Dinan "engineers" and how it works.

Patrick

 

The diff is a 3.15 lsd. The car is an auto.

 

What series is it? 3.15 was stock for S54 M coupe/ roadsters... don't remember any others off the top of my head.

How did you like that 3 year in development Dinan kit?

Patrick

 

My car is an E39 540i.

As for the 3 years in development. They probably put it on the backburner as their bread and butter is BMW products. Also, they were probably devising a marketing strategy due to the introduction of the JCW and MINI factory warranty. All that and CARB certification probably held things up. Of course this is all speculation as I haven't talked to Steve Dinan. Perhaps I'll pay his shop a visit when I'm up there for Concorso.

 

I also have an e39 540ias & I have to say that we should all just be patient.
Of course the Dinan Mini development has been slow & put on the back burner. Consider the average price of the new 5, 6 & 7's (at least double or triple that of my loaded Mini). The retail price of the 10+point supercharger package previously mentioned is about equal to the price of my Mini not including labor to install it!

However, to say they are lacking in design/appeal, or anything else, is just plain wrong. I have the Stage 2 software and the cold air intake by Dinan, and right up to 155+, the car just pulls (away from most)! I only wish I had the disposable income to get the supercharger. Because of the price concerns, I've resigned to replace only those parts that come to need replacing, (take into consideration the Dinan exhaust costs almost exactly the same as full replacement of the OEM, so why not). The same applies to the suspension & brake packages.

I think all of us are looking to stay under the $100 per horsepower cost ratio when upgrading & Dinan is usually just barely over that, so considering the warranty issue, for a lot of people, it just may be the viable option.

 

[QUOTE=The_Beastmaster] All that and CARB certification probably held things up. QUOTE]

I think it is 49 state legal which means no CARB EO # (at least yet).

Just a thought.

Patrick

 

What I meant was Dinan was waiting for CARB Certification to release their products. It's possible there is a hold up somewhere with CARB so they decided to just release the products since they are already behind the 8 ball.