i find the effect MOST noticeable from a standing start..


that 1st gear kinda thing.. so i don't usually wind it up at that point

 

Are they still doing the free with SAE thing?

 

my utterly subjective review. take me for what i am: a small piece of rabbit poo in the pool of samples.

or just a small piece of poo

regardless, this made for an easier install of the device, and now i can do it without the removal of the intercooler, though i may later to clean. after i put it on, i noted earlier that i noticed no real improvements on take off, response (the electronic throttle STILL sucks), acceleration. And i also reported that i would do a review of the mileage on my weekly trip from columbus to cleveland back to columbus.

on my exaggerating obc, i found that the compy is reporting about a 38.7mpg on the highway, average of 65mph in 6th. Of course, my speedo shows that i am set at 70mph, but the obc says 65. havent the faintest of what to make of that. all this was POST install of the device.

PRE install, the untrusty ole OBC was reporting a 40.7mpg at 65mph (again, 70mph on the speedo) in 6th. So this means i lost (according to the obc) about 1-2mpg. No big deal.

So all in all, in my singular case, i found no real difference, as the mileage difference can simply be accounted by the crappy OBC, varied driving conditions on the two trips, wind, my excessive farting, horrible singing, what have you.

i will try and install again just to see if i can really make a difference. One thing to note is, the HAI i installed around the same time helped the terrible stumble i'd get with the AC on. Thanks andy, and thanks m7.

 

maxmini, would you mind answering the above questions?

 

Any time the supercharger is not under boost the valve opens . When you are back on the gas( building boost ) it closes.With the device this action happens more quickly making the throttle responce faster. Over 200 satisfied customers maby we need a sign like Mc Donalds Have a good day
Randy
Team M7

 

So, then why did you say that flooring the gas at 2k rpm wouldn't be a good test? If the engine is seeing vacuum, the valve should be open, right? I floor the gas. That should close the valve. Doing that test several times with both the device and the stock tube, while logging upstream and downstream pressure, should show whether the device works. Do you agree?

 

Andy you are the number guy anything you want to do is fine by me Seriously I have no idea how you can measure the quicker throttle response which the device provides to varying degrees on different cars. We have had a overwhelming number of positive responses so far with a few , four so far ,not noticing the increase they were looking for. Frankly I expected more negative feed back than that due mostly to the in inherent differences between cars. Some just don't respond to various modifications as well as others do. Now that is a mystery that should be looked into. We will keep coming out with products and you can keep coming up with the " numbers " that works for me Have a good one.

Randy
Team M7
www.m7tuning.com

 

So, no you are saying this is something that can't be measured?

Please lay it out, once and for all, exactly what the device is supposed to do and how it accomplishes it.

 

^^Not gonna happen.

Would be great if you could do your measuring magic on a car purported to be significantly improved by the restrictor. Doubt that'll happen either. Oh well.

 

Maybe one of these days, my brain will just become fried from too much data and I'll buy myself a plasma booster, grounding kit, nology plug wires, pilo ignition coil, front strut bar, rear stress bar, m7 wing and diffuser, and all sorts of other products that offer non-quantifiable enjoyment.

 

Now your talking, send along that credit card number and we'll set you up I didn't say the results could not be measured I said I have no idea how you are going to measure it. As for how the device works my god there have been many posts on that already and you have one in your hands as we speak. For the most part the people that have received it can SEE and FEEL the difference.If you cant then perhaps you have one of the less that 5% at this time that wont see a noticeable change. You are the one looking to quantity it with a number so you are going to have to figure out to accomplish that as I am busy trying to figure out how to spend all the money we are making on this FREE item Have a good one and thanks for the support.

Randy
Team M7
www.m7tuning.com

 

Back at Moe's Tavern, Moe begins to put the crayon in Homer's nose.

Moe: All right, tell me when I hit the sweet spot.

Homer: Deeper, you pusillanimous pilsner pusher!

Moe: All right, all right. [with a small hammer and chisel, taps the crayon further up Homer's nose]

Homer: De-fense! [woof-woof] De-fense! [woof-woof]

Moe: Eh, that's pretty dumb. But, uh ... [taps once more]

Homer: Extended warranty? How can I lose?

Moe: Perfect.

 

Andy,

I don't think that everything has to be quantifiable to say that it is worth it. Numbers are good to a point, but some things don't provide numbers. Somethings are still left up to feel. Race car drivers don't all have the same kind of car settings. Some "feel" more comfortable with certain settings or setups or components. While it works for them, it may not work for another driver.

Throttle response is something that is hard to measure, and obviously something that M7 doesn't want to spend the time measuring. I personally wouldn't choose the product, but others have found it to work and some haven't. It is a free product that they haven't touted as giving extra hp or torque through a certain rpm range. Only that it feels quicker and that it feels like it has a quicker throttle response. Take it for what it is. Some people this wouldn't be enough and they wouldn't take it. Others may think this is enough for them, and the fact that it is free, it is worth it to them. To each their own.

The same can be said for the rear wing. You were concerned about downforce and why M7 hadn't measured downforce on the product. It is a generic adjustable wing, that is on the JCW race cars (appears to be nearly identical) and has been seen on the Corporate Mini test cars. M7 doesn't feel that interested in measuring downforce and since wing settings is very subjective to each driver, it probably doesn't pay to give numbers, since each driver may have different preferred settings.

It seems crazy to go through 12 pages of thread to try to dissect a silly free product, that the questioning parties have no interest in purchasing. I totally agree questioning it to a point, but this is crazy. It is a public board so I guess anyone can post anything they want and continue asking questions, it is seems like beating a dead horse.

 

Maxmini, If you get an extra bypass valve, send it to me and I'll add insturmentation to measure the angle of the valve and we can record the difference between a regular vacuum hose and a restricted vacuum hose.

It's only $50, but I couldn't order one from my MINI online site since I'm not a Winders/Internet Explorer guy.

If you manage to order one, I'll pop $60 in the box when I send it back.

My address is in my personal information.

 

I've got one with a couple of microswitches on it configured to indicate both fully open and fully closed positions. Yesterday I measured the time for the valve to traverse from fully open to fully closed under two conditions: no restriction, and 0.040 inch restriction. This was measured by disconnecting the rubber hose where it attaches to the valve body, applying 20" of vacuum (valve is fully open at 15"), and manually removing the end of the hose from the vacuum source. The hose length was the same in both cases. The measurements were repeatable to +/- 1 ms.

No restriction: 26 ms
0.040" restriction: 100 ms

I've got a M7 device around here someplace, if I can find it I'll measure it too.

 

Bradley99,

Wow! Awesome info. Remember though, that if your testing shows no change or a negative change from the device, you'll be in the 5%.

 

Thanks Bradley for reaffirming my faith in the laws of physics.

 

The thing is that MINIClo says it seems like her car has more power with the restricted vacuum line.

That tells me something is going on that we don't fully understand, and I want to understand it.

It just has to be more than just the vacuum signal going to the diaphragm.

People say they have seen it move faster, and although I can't figure out how it could possibly happen, SOMETHING is going on.

Bradley99, do you have time to install your insturmented valve on a vehicle and drive it around to see what happens on a car under normal operation?

If you then get slower opening also, I'll chalk it up to mass placebo effect, but I still think from all the prople's posting that somehow, it will open faster.

Oh man, I'm dangerously close to the "Faith-based performance modification" side of the fence, and it's very uncomfortable over here.

 

No restriction : 26 ms
0.040" restriction : 100 ms
M7 (0.094") : 28 ms

 

Trippy thank you for the offer to test a By Pass Valve. I will check with the dealer about ordering one and lets see what we can come up with.
Randy
Team M7

 

Out of the darkness a voice of reason. Thank you.

Randy
Team M7

 

Good work there . Is there any way to make those measurments coinside with the on and off agian throttle responce IE: The change in vacume created by the actual car? I am no engineer , hell i don't even ride on trains much less drive them but would the device perhaps make the valve more sensative to lower vacume rather than the steady 20" provided by the test on your particular car? In any event thanks for going to the trouble look forward to more of your work.

Randy
Team M7

 

My instrumented BPV is only a lab curiosity. It is mounted on a Bud box and the microswitches are mounted on a bracket.

My interest in this is strictly to cure the yoyo and I really have no interest in any speedup effects provided by a restriction orifice. If it does seem to speed it up, great but I'm more concerned by the effect of a restriction the other way - slowing the response of the valve. I need enough restriction to dampen the oscillatory behavior, but not so much that the response time of the valve will noticably reduce the onset of boost production. (Hmmm, exactly the opposite of what's claimed for the M7D). I think I can live quite easily with a 100 ms step response. The question remains whether a 0.040" restriction will eliminate the yoyo. Perhaps I can answer this by this weekend. (I probably will carry on the remainder of this line of inquiry in the yoyo thread).

 

Bradley99,

You may want to experiment with a much longer vacuum hose (maybe a small coil) and/or a hose with a fuel filter in the middle of it. Both of these methods have been used to damp oscillations in boost gauges. I use a fuel filter inline with my Omori mechanical gauge (it rattled loudly without it). Keep up the good work!

 

OK, I'm probably gonna get eaten alive, but....

I never got mine. Any info?

Thanks

jerij