So, its been a few years since the release of these systems. As far as things go there's only 2 reasonable choices for R53 owners wanting to get a custom ECU tune with the DIY option and those are Bytetronik and Vipec.

So, i wanted to post this thread to let myself and other interested people understand the main pros and cons of the two systems without searching through hundreds of pages of forum posts to get informed.

1) What are the latest prices of both options?

2) Where to directly order online?

3) MAIN pros and cons of both options? (without getting into indepth debates about which is better!)

 

Now your opening a giant can of worms!!!! These two camps seem to have a giant hate on for each other.

I've been looking at both options and here is what I have been able to gather.

Vipec
Available from Revolution Motor (Mini) Works--http://www.revolutionmotorworks.com
Best to call as it is not listed on the site and you will need a lot of help to get this thing working. Cost $2200 for just the unit--tuning and any additional parts (injectors etc. extra)

Probably the best option if you want to build a car with injectors larger than 550cc for really big horsepower --300+. Vipec can be used with all size injectors and can control low impedance units (preferred by most tuners because of more precise control of the inj. units). Full stand alone unit, does not use stock ecu to run the engine--not sure if it is retained for any other functions.

This is an expensive and slippery path to start down, so be prepared!!! Jan appears to know his stuff and can make some impressive hp but it may take you a while to get to your end point.



Bytetronic--http://www.bytetronik.com/

Cost
Full Access---$750 for a do it yourself full access tuning module and you will need the AFR kit ($200) to allow you to tune the car without dyno access (injectors and any other mods extra)

Access Lite--$950 but includes the AFR kit and one remote tune by the gang at Bytetronics ( injectors extra ). Additional tunes are $300 each

Bytetronics
Uses stock ECU
They offer and option ($150) to have a clone ecu--for racers etc, you can have a spare in your trailer
With either you will need someone to weld in an extra bung on your exhaust to allow the install of the AFR.
Only capable of supporting injectors up to 550cc ( maybe Mike or someone can correct me if I'm wrong here) so probably 300hp max applications.
Tunes are done remotely with you sending logs of your data back to bytetronics and they will tweek the tune.
Probably 1) the best bang for the buck 2) best if you are only making all engine mods (no larger supercharger/turbo etc) 3)great if you live in the middle of nowhere and no access to dyno or tuning shop.


I've spend a fair bit of time looking at these options and this is what I have been able to discover.
Feel free to set me straight, as real answers are sometimes hard to find!!!

 

For user feedback, PM these guys. They might be able to enlighten you:
1. Vipec used by Andrea here:
http://www.minitorque.com/forum/f273...edition-18215/

2. Bytetronik used by Professor. he's on here, motoringunderground & the other site NAM won't allow mentioned.

 

Talk about gouging. Holy Christ.

This type of cost makes me miss Eprom, piggyback, and open source tuning options of my past cars.

 

I too thought about the Vipec, as anyone who has followed me can attest, I don't mind spending money to achieve my goals so the 2x+ cost wasn't that much of a factor.

But that was then, this is now, the Bytetronik guys have made great strides in what can be done with the OEM ECU, all out hp isn't the issue but working with the conditions high hp create for the sensors & how the ECU inteprets this info, the Bytetronik guy's have been able to deal with many of these things, the Widow, for example, stock ECU & upwards of 350whp, and lets be honest, as nice as it sounds, there are only going to be a handful of people actually pushing those limits.
Originally the "any tuner can tune it" scenerio was a huge factor, but with the remote tuning options that the Bytetronik team offers & how happy those of us who have benefited from it are, it really lessens this benefit.

Honestly the biggest factor for me, then & even now, still has to be OBDII complience, the Vipec just isn't, so any plug-n-play liscensing/inspection in your area & you have to figure a way around it.

 

Good input, Blwn! How's your rebuild coming along? Been on the lookout for updates, man.

 

Slow, but steady, right now I'm collecting parts, already have Pistons, Rods & my ARP essentials, but I'm looking @ Feb. for actual assembly & still shooting for full completion (including tuning) for MOTD.
Once I pull the head, inspect it & fix a price for selling it, I'll update my build threads.

On the topic @ hand, if I were in a full race scenario, I'd even take a real hard look @ the Vipec, just not for the street.

 

Vipec -> AVAILABLE FROM ANY DAMN DEALER THAT SELLS VIPEC!

Jan does have them in stock, although not an official US dealer.
(I suggest emailing vipec personally, they will give you the what's what)

ViPEC -> it is a V88 ECU that has been put into a case and wiried to the factory style AMP connectors to "plug and play" (sort-of) with the mini.

it has the capability to change ANYTHING you want however, as well as add more sensors or even change existing ones.

Want to go from wasted spark to CNP sequential ignition -> no problem.
don't need two narrow band o2 sensors? well splice the data signal from your wideband into the ecu input line and make one of them read the wideband signal and the other you can make what you want!

You can get the EXACT same results by buying a standard V88 and doing the wiring harness yourself. You can even take the diagram from the pnp MINI ecu handbook and wire up the V88 the exact same, and then "load" the pre-mapped "MINI" tune that comes with it. (when you get the mini ecu they will also have mapps for audi's, toyota supra, etc)

It is more expensive, and Jan is actually selling it at below MSRP (different and long story -> it is cheaper from him, but ViPEC has apparently warned him that he may "suffer the consequences" if he should not bring his pricing back in line.. this is not from Jan, this is from me talking with ViPEC directly)
I do not claim to know the whole story, but putting that information out there for you to do with as you wish.

I also have bytetronic!

It is a great set-up to dial in most of the standard" mods, as well as some more if you want to give it some more TLC.

However, I did not like that I could have it running perfectly one day, but then due to the ECU being adaptive, it would learn itself a few new sub-routines, and the next day it would be giving me issues again. It was forever a loop with the large cam and other things I had done.

I am an engineer and my favorite subject area is actually process control, and I did not have any way to control the ECU feedback on the stock ECU with bytetronic.

It had its place, but not for going "crazy" on the mini.

so I went with the ViPEC. It actually lets me adjust gain as well as proportional and integral feedback parameters on the control loops (boost, timing, closed loop fueling, etc). which I love Car actually does what I tell it to do.

Also.. Live tuning is highly underrated until you have dealt with "blind tuning" (byte tronik -> test, shut down, adjust tune, upload, crank, test, repeat) vs the ViPEC -> make adjustments and save on-the-fly. As well as you can tune and fueling by setting the AFR you want, tying a wideband into the ECU, and putting it on a dyno. It will automatically adjust the fuel input to the motor until you hit your target AFR and then lock that value into the fueling table. automatically.

Quite awesome stuff.

You pay for what you get, but for me, with my needs, I was willing and able to play.

 

Thanks for the Vipec info.
Good to know that Bytetronic still has the adaptive crap.
Maybe I'll spring for the Vipec since my car is track only--good to hear about the closed loop AFR setup in the Vipec--makes initial setup much easier.

Cheers

 

and they recently got 750cc injectors running with bytetronic btw, but it required a return type fuel system.
550's are the max "drop-in" size

 

I've had both. There is no comparison, you can guess which I've still got.

 

Not sure anybody really wants to even bring this topic up... It always ends one way...

With that said, I was included in the firs shipment of ByteTroniK kits, its not very friendly even to experienced tuners. The OE ECU has limits which can not be altered, adaptives will always interfere. And for Tech Support... Well thats a long story, but I will need a new ECU either way. IMHO it is not worth the cost, or problems.

ViPEC, I will let you know more once I have one installed. But you get what you pay for. Is it even necessary for a DD street car... Thats debatable. If you plan on aiming for the sky with your MINI... The $2250 is very justifiable. A real stand alone will always out do any stock ECU, that is their soul purpose after all.

 

im going through the same headaches as i have done research on both but havn't dropped the hammer yet. Just finding it hard the justify the $2200 on a daily driver that i like to have fun in on the weekends. Its a very tough decision. If the price dropped to about $1500 it would be alot easier to make!

 

$1500 Is just not do able, there is a lot of R&D that has gone into making everything work as it should, lots of people to pay for their time, and lots of updates yet to come.

Hats off to the folks at ViPEC, for even bringing such a product to a market with such a small performance fan base.

 

sorry guys for this noobie question. But im living and working in Taiwan at the moment and the guys here are pretty clueless on the tuning side of things because of the language barrier with regards to information in chinese on tuning. All the cars here are running JCW tunes or similar at best.

Would someone be kind enough to explain in the simplest possible way why everyone has been waiting for Vipec to release a R53 version and why other ECU systems like AEM and Motec are not useable on our mini R53s?? If i can accurately translate this into Chinese for the guys here, there may be a large order of Vipecs coming up for Taiwan!

Appreciate the help!

 

ViPec has released the MINI R53 version, they have not yet released an R56 version. Don't know about the Motec and AEM ECU's.

 

I agree, from what I've seen so far, the Vipec system gets an A+, and is almost a must for anyone who wants to go truly radical with certain things, I just wish there was a way around the OBDII thing so I could pass an inspection with it.
Sure you could slap your OEM ECU back in & drive for a couple of weeks for all the systems to complete their processes & cycles, but if what you've put together is so radical that you "need" the Vipec, odds are the car won't run on the OEM ECU enough to use it for as long as you would need too.
For myself, I just can't see the extra expense and still have to go through the extra hassles when the Bytetronik guys can do the things they can with the OEM unit & I don't have to deal with any legality/inspection issues.
But of course it would be a different story if I didn't live in a Plug-n-Play state.

 

So here is my question; what functions do I lose using the ViPEC, as its good points are amazing, but I have to assume that I am some of the things that the ECU interface to the other modules is going to be lost.

Am I going to get Check Engine Lights? Am I going to retain that function at all? What about ABS?

I do not mean this as a slam I am truly asking.

 

The lack of the ODBII port is the main issue. I don't have Cruise Control anymore but CEL's and ABS are there. What you gain is no adaptives, it does what you program it to do and does not change, the ability to program directly from a laptop with a USB interface and the tune will be used immediately. Multiple stored tunes for higher octane fuel, instantly apply a fail safe tune when running Meth if you run out or if the flow stops for some other reason, and lots more. My car runs great with the Vi-Pec and is not a dedicated track car, its a DD that sees some track time.

 

So I think that maybe we should start a Plus and Minus List (I will edit this post to add as needed):

Minus:

• Cost (@22oo$)
• No OBDII Port (this only really matters if you need it for Inspection)
• Loss of Cruise Control
• No Crono Pak Support

Plus:

• Retain CEL
• Retain ABS Function
• No adaptives (might be plus or minus)
• Multiple Tunes
• Fail-Safe for Meth or Nitrous
• Plug N Play Interface
• Mounts in Factory Location
• Down-loadable Starter Tune
• One requires 1 o2 Sensor (can run without cat)

The biggest problem to me for this right now is the loss of Cruise Control, but the flip side is the gaining of the Meth/Multi Tunes.

 

oh you can run a motec or an AEM if you want. The vipec is just the same. The mini drop in ECU is a ViPEC V88 standalone fit into a case and has certain pin-outs already wired into a stock AMP style mini OEM connector.

nothing to say you could not buy a standard v88, mount it up somehow, wire it up the same by hand, and load the same "mini" tune onto it (downloadable from their update system)

Now AEM and MoTeC do not have "pre determined" outputs, but you could buy a motec or an AEM and do it all yourself if you want. Nothing to stop you.

however getting the factory gauges to talk to you and to get A/C working may be a B****... but then again that is why I bought the PNP.. to eliminate the set-up hassles.

Vipec already did the leg work of finding the map sensor calibration curves as well as getting the sensor curves for all of the other inputs, and quite frankly, me not having to do it myself is worth a heck of a lot of dough.

 

Ok, thanks for this. This makes sense and answers my question and explains why people have waited so long for Vipec to release a R53 version that already has these preset curves for the sensors and other ECU controlled functions included. Cheers.

Now, about that price....

 

soccerbummer1104 -
All great points in favor of the Vi-Pec. It has also been set up with Launch Control and NLTS - No Lift to Shift - off the clutch and speed sensors. Knock Control has been done. There were some issues controlling the MINI Automatic A/C and Manual A/C but that has been resolved. E-85 maps have been done. A lot of potential with the Vi-Pec.

Edit - Also just found out that ODBII support is being worked on and will be implemented soon.

 

When you run Vipec, do you still need to run two O2 sensors??? or just one? Does that change if you have no Cat? Is it setup to plug in EGT sensor for direct feedback for autoprogram (assume it is).

Does Vipec connect directly to any aftermarket dash--- AIM or Racepak etc?

 

You only will need one O2 sensor. You can also have a wideband wired in which is preferred. Doesnt matter if you have a cat or not.

For the Aim dash, I really dont know, but I assume that it can. Might not though speed and everything is read off of the CAN system. (Which is why you will loose functionality of most of the ChronoPack gauges.)