Since I have the 03' JCW kit with the 340cc injectors and the 200hp JCW tune...I'm curious what the 380cc injectors will do .

With the JCW parts (head,exhaust,JCW tune) and a 17% pulley....I would think that those 340cc injectors have got to be right on the limit of being maxed out. Maybe I will get a AFR gauge and wide band o2 to play with.......that's the only good way to know what's going on,

 

Absolutely. For the price we gearheads spend on nonsense, $160 for a wideband is a no-brainer.

Also, if you can get your hands on a Scangauge, it'd be worth looking at Injector Duty Cycle. Even if you're at 100% IDC (over 100% is impossible), it'd only be at WOT, and you shouldn't be at WOT long enough to overheat an injector coil (unless you race frequently).

 

Just ordered an MTX-L AFR gauge kit.....with the data logging software. I think with the BMW software I have on my laptop I can monitor injector duty cycles.

I'm going to put the stock 340cc injectors back in after I get the AFR gauge installed and then do some logging before and after the 380cc injectors. Should be neat to see how the afrs actually change...and where they change.

 

Keep us in the loop. I think I'm going to grab an AEM UEGO in the not-too-distant future. I'll be interested to see the effects of a JCW head with the 340cc injectors. Though, it's important to remember that MINI did in fact tune your JCW with 340's installed, so I wouldn't anticipate too crazy of an AFR (certainly the Injector Duty Cycle will be a bit higher than a non-JCW R53).

 

IQRaceworks and TheBigChill, THANK YOU both for all of the info (and others)!! I just received my Volvo T-5 injectors, 0 280 158 096. There is a very big difference in size overall, but the portion that is inserted looks to be the correct size. Before I take them in to be installed I want to make sure I have the correct ones. It just surprised me to see the size difference.

 

Oh and by the way, I DID read the entire thread. A wealth of knowledge!!

 

I think the Bosch 380cc injectors (0280158096) are a little taller than the 330cc oem injectors...is that what you are referring to when you say "big difference in overall size"?

It sounds like you have the correct ones going by the numbers....so I'd say you are good to go. I haven't installed mine yet, so I have not seen them side by side with the 330cc injectors yet. As soon as my ARF gauge shows up and I can log the AFR's with the stock 330cc injectors, then I'll install the new Bosch 380cc injectors.

Can you post a picture?

 

I can't post any photos. Can you send me your cell phone or email and I'll send them to you

 

The size difference should be negligible. I'm not sure I'd say "very big" at all. I have the exact length of our stock injectors in MM somewhere, as well as the Bosch 0280158096 (48.7mm O-ring to O-ring, 65 overall). If they were that much different in either direction, the fuel rail wouldn't bolt back down as easily as it does.
The requirement for spacers below the intercooler is more to fit the harness adapters than anything else.


EDIT: Page 7, post #155 gives dimensions of both stock and Bosch 0280158096 injectors. The overall length difference is only 3mm, if I recall correctly.

 

Here is a picture of a home made fuel injector cleaner which was assembled using ideas from several YouTube videos. Works great. Assembled from parts in the extra parts bin. Pressure in Syringe was more than enough for a nice spray. FYI, the injectors were not plugged, but decided to clean as part of this total build. p.s. Strongly recommend always replacing "O" rings unless they are near new. Also, am replacing the injector rail Schrader valve with part # 8080801047 GFLT which is an upgrade from OEM. It withstand greater than 10% ethanol. Would post on its own thread if I could figure out how to do it.

 

That certainly is one way to do it, haha. I like it. Maybe try finding an actual 12v battery, and wire in a simple momentary (push & hold) switch inline. I'm not sure that a 9v battery is going to fully activate the coil and get you full injector pulse width.

Another idea is something like this:

 

 

Well I finally had a chance to get my car into the muffler shop to get the bung welded in for the wideband O2 sensor for my AFR gauge I'm installing. I'm going to log the AFR numbers for the 200JCW tune with the stock 340cc injectors (I bet they are really lean), and then with the 380cc injectors. After that's done, I'm going to send my DME out to Way Motor Works to have it flashed with their Quick Tune set up for 380cc injectors....and then log the AFR's with that flash. hopefully I can get everything installed and figured out this weekend

 

IQ, Anxiously waiting your results of the testing. I'm curious why you think it necessary to have a new Bung for the new WBAFR sensor? Is it because your AFR sender does not have an analog output to feed the ECU? Mine does. In my case, I'm changing FI's from 340 to 380 to 550 in stages to make sure all is well -- checking AFR at each stage. Obviously,--will be installing the AEM F/IC before the 550's but after the 380's prove they are running with the factory set/self adjusted ECU. FYI, posting photo's of the three FI's and the replacement Schrader valve for fuel injector rail. Also, injector cleaner photo which was recently posted does have a momentary switch if you look hard, and the 9 V works great. But what do I know? Safe travels.

 

The Innovate Motorsports MTX-L AFR gauge I bought comes with a Bosch WB O2 sensor that has analog outputs that will take the place of the factory narrow band O2 sensor if you solder in a few resistors to "trick" the ECU to think that the NB sensor was still hooked up....BUT...the more I read about the people who were pulling the NB sensor and using the WB sensor to feed the gauge, and the ECU...they all seemed to have reliabilty issues. Most people were having issues with the resistors burning out....and I didn't want to deal with a dead O2 sensor when I was driving the car.

I'd much rather keep the factor NB sensor for the ECU, and use the new WB sensor to feed the gauge.....that way I don't loose any reliability. The last thing I (and anyone else) wants is to be driving their car and have their O2 sensor malfunction on them.

Plus...it only took 20min, and cost me $25 to have the new bung welded in

 

One of the few instances where it's acceptable to use an aftermarket wideband kit as your primary O2 sensor is when you're running a standalone or comparable EMS. For example, an AEM Uego wideband could function as the primary O2 with an AEM EMS-4.

You can't simply pull the stock sensor, install a wideband in its place, and wire the 0-5v output from it to the car's original ECU...

 

Well I finally got my AFR gauge installed tonight. I fired up the logging software it came with and made a 3rd gear run starting at 3000rpms running all the way up to 6500rpms. This is with the 340cc injectors, the JCW 200hp flash, jcw exhaust, jcw head, pipercross intake, and WMW 17% pulley making 16psi of boost at 6500rpms.

As you can see.......even with the 340cc injectors.....it was running on the rich side. I guess that just proves that all of the guys buying 440cc injectors for their CooperS's with just a pulley are wasting their money

I'm going to install my 380cc injectors tomorrow....and log another pass to see how it looks......I will post it as soon as I get it.

The left side of the chart is AFR's....the bottoms is time in seconds.

 

I'd like to see corresponding boost values, too, but I understand that's not going to happen.

Overall, the AFR numbers are fine. You're at 12 by 3500RPM, and between 11.5 and 11.8 or so until redline. At what RPM to you hit full boost? (did you notice?)

So, I actually wouldn't call those numbers "rich" at all. People tuning for a mix of power and safety are generally in that 11.5 AFR range. 11.7 - 12.0 or so is still fine and makes very good power, but lessens the margin for error. Having said that, for me, I prefer 11.5 or so, then taper down to 11.2 at full boost. The leaner you run, the higher EGT's get, and heat is our enemy. With those numbers, I've never had heat issues, detonation issues, or any catastrophic failures on over 6 tuned forced induction cars.

IQ, frankly, that chart looks decent. You might be able to take enrichment a bit earlier and richer overall, but just a hair. That depends on how early boost comes in. The real art to tuning is timing tuning, and that's something a good tuner could solve. I'd be interested to know IDC, too.

 

I'm planning on putting the 380cc injectors this afternoon and running another log. I will make note of where the boost is running.

 

I bet you drop down to 10.8 or so.

 

With the good AFR's from the 340cc injectors.......is there really any benefit from putting in the 380cc injectors and then getting the DME reflashed ?

 

Lower IDC, whether needed or not. Headroom for a few more mods. Since you have them, I'd install them and tune 'em. Jan or whoever can still fine-tune the timing and make more power.

 

I got the new Bosch 380cc injectors in, and took the car for a drive. It seemed to idle the same, and didn't really seem much different while cruising around(I didn't expect it to). When I logged another WOT run from 3000rpms to 6500rpms in 3rd gear....you can definitely see that the 380cc injectors run richer. The car didn't really seem to pull as hard....but maybe that was all in my head.

I've already pulled my DME out, and I'm going to ship it off to Way Motor Works to have them flash it with their "Quick Tune" set up for the 380cc injectors. We'll see what the AFR's are like when I get my DME back from Way.

The top graph is with the 380cc injectors, the bottom is with the 340cc injectors...the motor definitely made more power with the smaller injectors (leaner). Hopefully Ways tun will get it back in shape.

 

You absolutely were making more power with the 340's.. The only way you wouldn't is if the leaner AFR was causing too much heat, and the DME starts pulling timing because of it, but that's unlikely at these AFR's.

That's about what I expected, and posted earlier in this thread a few times. A drop of one full Air unit from the change. That's a big change. Thanks for posting this.

 

Also, here is a chart I made a few months ago when I swapped the JCW pulley out for the 17% WMW pulley. It shows where the boost comes in at (you has asked about it a few posts above).

In case you haven't noticed...I like charting things.