I am getting a custom exhaust (removing the second cat) and I intend to hook the exhaust up to an aftermarket, high-flow catted downpipe. I am looking at the Akrapovic and Milltek.

I have heard nothing but good things about the Akrapovic and it is a little cheaper, but my concern is that the 100 cells might make it a tad more difficult to keep the CEL off with spacers relative to the Milltek's 200 cells. Also, from a visual standpoint, the Milltek more closely resembles a stock unit than the Akrapovic.

The price difference is not that significant to me (~$150). And although the Akrapovic looks beautiful, I won't be looking at it once it's in the bowels of my car. So what it really comes down to is this: How much more performance will the Akrapovic yield compared to the Milltek? And are there any other reasons (besides price, build quality, performance) that I should choose one over the other?

Note: This is for an R60 Countryman, but I'm posting here because R60 owners with aftermarket downpipes are rare as hen's teeth.

 

Breaking news! There is no downpipe that will prevent a cat related OBD CEL from showing its face. From what I remember Milltek stopped making turbo downpipes for the R56 because of this and only sells the catback now. Alta used to be in this game too and they're also out.

You will probably not be able to tell the difference in performance of a 100 vs. 200 cell cat. If you want to make the most of your exhaust, get rid of the cat all together, get an ECU tune, and a bigger intercooler. I'm not sure how much difference you're going to feel since the Countryman weighs 300 pounds more than a hatchback.

 

Akrapovic is second to none. Definitely better quality than the Milltek and you should really think the whole subject from another view. Akrapovic with its 100cpi cat is the closest to a decated one which will have the best performance of them all. The sound will be better too when you get hard on it.
I myself was one of the first to fit the Akrapovic DP (early 2010) and since then I have never looked back. Eventually you will have a cel with either unless you tune it out with an aftermarket map.
Good luck with your choice...

 

I understand that any aftermarket DP will require some creativity to avoid a CEL, but my thinking is that the further one gets from the OEM configuration, the more radical one has to get to keep the CEL off, at least when it comes to spacing the o2 sensor

I am putting a Forge FMIC on tomorrow and an ECU tune once the exhaust is nailed down. Assuming you mean with an FMIC, tune, and downpipe, the boldfaced portion if your comment is silly. An additional +40 hp will be noticeable, 300 extra pounds or not.

 

Thanks for the reply; I appreciate the comments. Unfortunately, tuning out a CEL is a no go for me, since it will still cause an emissions failure due to a failure in readiness codes (which can't be tuned out and will remain, even if the CEL is killed via tune).

Thus, I will have to kill the CEL through physical modification (i.e., spacers). My exhaust guy is confident he can get it off and keep it off with his custom work. My sense is that this would be an easier endeavor with a cat that more closely matches the OEM cat in emissions reduction, but it might be a drop in the bucket. Also as I said the Akrapovic looks decidedly aftermarket and might complicate a visual inspection.

But like you say, the performance of the Akrapovic is great and the sound is awesome too. Ideally, I'd love to hear from anyone who has run both but anyone with experience with the Milltek would also be appreciated.

 

If you're not going to get a tune to modify the downpipe CELs than why bother with the downpipe at all? You will not fool the system with spacers. Myself and many many others have tried all the tricks in the book and the only way is via an ECU tune. Even though you exhaust guy is telling you he'll prevail... he will fail. The Bosch ECU and emissions parameters are absolutely unforgiving. The only glimmer of hope is an electronic system Way @ Way Motor Works is trying out. Not quite sure if that is proven yet.

http://www.waymotorworks.com/akrapov...8-r59-r60.html

Even if you get the Akropovic downpipe, which is supposed to be real hot stuff these days in the exhaust market, you'll still eventually get a CEL. Even if the CEL is not on, trust us it is a pending code and the state inspection team will flag you.

I am so glad Michigan does not have a regulatory body like CARB What a waste of money.

 

I'm going to get a tune, but I cannot rely on it to pass emissions. First, since I am getting a "canned" tune, I don't think it will touch codes. Second, even if it deleted the code, the failed readiness test would remain, so, from an emissions test standpoint, I will be back to square one.

The device you posted from Way Motor Works is even less helpful than code deleting with an OBDII device. All the Akrapovic device appears to do is to keep the actual check engine light from illuminating in the dash. It doesn't appear to even delete the corresponding OBDII code, much less the readiness code.

I'm not sure I would agree that, if using spacers, the readiness code will be on even if the CEL is not illuminated. You make it sound as though there is a sort of emissions purgatory in which there is enough of a problem to have a readiness failure, but not enough of a problem to illuminate a CEL. I'm not sure that's how it works, absent an artificial intrusion in the process (i.e., turning a code off via a OBDII tuner).

Of course, this is not to say that it will be easy to keep the CEL off using spacers. I'm sure it will take some fine tuning, but I don't share your opinion that it is impossible. That simply doesn't make sense, especially when you consider that many people have reported CELs from spacing out their o2 sensors too much, which suggests that there is a sweet spot between those two extremes that will keep the CEL off. It might be a narrow sweet spot, but it's got to be there.

Agreed. The CARB stuff is frustrating, especially when some of the biggest polluters (e.g., trucks) are exempt.

 

Edit - I guess this is how the Accessport deals with CELs: "The AccessPORT does turn the CELs into the "not ready" mode. Normally you are allowed at least 1 or 2 "not ready" CELs. We haven't had any issues with this yet, if you want, we can make a map that turns them back on."

From what I have read even CA allows one "not ready"

 

I'm just sayin' that we've all been through the downpipe spacer game since very early back before you bought your R60. Lots of experience here on NAM with downpipe issues. But this is all just advice.

 

The accessport does clear the CEL. i ran this setup for a little while. when i took the tune off as a test, the car showed the low catalytic function light. Oh - and i'm selling a barely used akrapovic pipe. loook in the market

 

Understood. I'm been reading the forums for at least six months and know that the CEL game has been played. Still, it seems 90% of the threads dealing with the issue fall into one of two categories:

1) People who turnoff the CEL via tune,

2) People who lament the fact that their supposedly CEL-free downpipe (i.e., Exhaust Depot) is no longer CEL free on newer (i.e., 2009- ) models.

There is considerably less about people who attempt to keep the CEL off via physical mod. Indeed, the only example I can think of off hand is and R60 owner who kept the CEL off with an Akrapovic DP.

At the end of the day, what is your "advice" really? If my tune won't help with this issue and, as you say, spacers/devices won't keep the CEL off, is your advice simply that I should not get a DP?

I'll be candid: I don't often stray into the 2nd Gen forums, but on the occasions I have, I have noticed that your posts tend to criticize rather than help and are characterized by an unmistakable arrogance as though you regard yourself as the expert on all things Mini. This is particularly true of your earlier posts in this thread. I'm sure you do have some legitimate advice and insight to share, but speaking for myself, it tends to be overlooked because of what appears to be an overarching elitist attitude.

 

There appears to be some confusion in terminology. Whether the AP turns the sensor off, clears the code, etc., the fact remains that the underlying readiness code will show as a fail and, depending on how strict the testing, one will fail their emissions testing instantaneously. This is case-closed fact.

The only way to avoid a readiness failure with an afttermarket DP would be to physically modify the sensor so the car actually thinks everything is okay. Then there is no code to "clear" or "delete" and, more importantly, no underlying readiness failure.

Whether this can be done as a practical matter is, as "Shane" and I have discussed, another matter.

 

Who are the retailers in the downpipe market for our Mini's??? Any of good quality? I want catless, so Akra is out....

I actually searched this topic and it's a little difficult to find detailed info.
NAM seems to be a player but when I visit their website little info is found on their downpipe. RISS racing seemed to be popular, but I believe they are out of business.

Anyone?

 

Way makes one and so does Evolve Automotive in the U.K. You won't find much of them since they're not legal.

 

AR Design makes one, as of recent. For some reason I don't see it on their site right now though. I think they just had a contest and gave one away for free.

 

A little info, the Milltek downpipe and Akrapovic will both pass a sniffer test.
Almost any downpipe should pass a CA visual inspection because they are all covered up with heatsheilds. If your inspector goes that deap you went to the wrong place or pissed him off.

You are correct in any downpipe available will cause a check engine light. As for CARB and passing, there isn't enough people that have gone through CARB with a bypass of some sort, and the smart ones that have are keeping it hush as they should.

All three of these downpipes will fit fine and work with stock exhaust.
http://www.waymotorworks.com/akrapov...6-r57-r58.html

http://www.waymotorworks.com/milltek...-downpipe.html

http://www.waymotorworks.com/wmw-cat...8-r59-r60.html

 

I'm looking at getting an Alta downpipe from someone. I'm curious - can I go stage 2 with that and a JCW exhaust on the AccessPort? And.... the downpipe is 3", but JCW is 2.5" if I'm not mistaken. Do they still attach or will I need cutting and trickery?

 

Thanks for the post, Way. Either way I go, I'll be buying from you. Met my exhaust guy today and he agrees the Akrapovic has better build quality, but that the Milltek has the better cat (an HJS cat).

If it was your car, which would you go with, Way?