http://www.ebay.com/itm/Protomotive-...69f237&vxp=mtr

so, ive been thinking of ways to keep our Intercoolers Cool while sitting at stop lights, ect, or being able to cool them down "at will" if you please.

This ebay intercooler as you can see, has a couple of fans on its back, sucking air through it. i always wondered if this would be possible to fit a similar fan onto the back of the Minis IC in such a way that it would Not restrict air flow whilst driving.

anyone else think this engineering feet is possible?!
please Prove yourself with technical details, guesstimates, product links or Math!

 

Someone did try this a while back (I could search for it but I am lazy)
IIRC the fans blocked air flow at speed and did not really help much while at rest.
Also, with the MINI intercooler is there is not much space for a fan.
The person how did it used computer cooling fans. I can't remember how they handled the space issue.

 

yes, that is what i was afraid of (space) and, not having enough air movement from smaller fans to make a difference. i was also concerned with amperage draw on the car as well, since fans take quite a bit of juice actually.

if you DO get unlazy submit a link or 2. id love to see what this other guy came up with. perhaps it will spark an idea for me.

another alternative to the Fan idea, was to use a bunch of small Peltier coolers on the outer edges of the IC, and possibly even the SC horns themselves. Id love to get some thin Long ones, to put in between the veins (like, on the top and bottom of the IC) that will still allow air flow (put the coolers on the Solid parts of the slots). That way, you are always chilling the entire IC.

but again, im worried about electrical power with using a plethora of Peltiers...

 

Seems like the spray idea would work better and be quicker/easier/less expensive and use no electricity - plus aren't there kits already out there to do it?

 

If I understand correctly these kinds of fan are built differently to prevent the blocking of air when it's moving faster than the fan - they use a fluid coupling that allows the airflow to push the fan when it needs to. It's just like your average radiator fan.

I'm sure this is part of the reason the computer fan experiment didn't work. That and the space issue. Maybe fans would work with an M7 DFIC with the extra hood cut?

 

I've thought about this as well and the idea keeps evolving in my head. As others pointed out, there isn't a whole lot of space on top. Maybe an inch or two?

I think there is a Delta case fan(120X120X38) that puts out 250 CFM. Three of these should equate driving at around 60 mph if everything perfect. Yep, they draw some amps and are not exactly quiet.

I'm trying to think of some way to fit a shroud underneath the intercooler with a blower assisted exhaust. It would work just like a radiator shroud complete with flapper valves etc. The idea would be simply to keep under hood hot air from exiting through the intercooler as well as cooling the intercooler during stop and go traffic situations.

 

Not to pee in anyone's Wheaties, but if Peltier and or IC fans worked, people (and car companies) would be using them.

 

+1
peliter chips are very inefficent, have limited output, and leave tye excess heat they produce very close to the cool....
a few cars have used (non mini) a second ac system using a compressor, etc as an intercooler...comes down to sheer btu's needed to do the job.
The stock ic does heatsaok quickly, but conversely it cools off very quickly once you start moving....a water or even co2 spray for occasional use is proven....
for much more performance, a water to air intercooler can be used, with the water having a second rad to ensure enough cooling....sizing is important....air cooling when moving is unlimited, but in heavy use water to air can become less effectictive, and add the weight and complexity, pluss cost.....
a few folks have them and love them though!!
the location of the stock ic is the biggest issue...but benifit is short tubes, and minimal lag....folks in the bygone days of big mods tried a front mount ic...but it added volume, which created lag.....

 

P.S.
If you think the durability of the power steering fan is troublesome (at about $100 each) it is made for severe duty), i would hate to see what would happen to a computer fan with unsealed bearings when exposed to extreeme heat, bugs, rain, salt, sand, and lots of overspeeding when spun at highwayspeeds....
stuff made to operate in an dry office on office quality air is very different that automotive quality stuff....and thuss the $$ difference.

 

Someone may have used computer fans, if it was me you were discussing, no they are auto grade fans, computer fans would last about one or two good thunderstorms and they would seize up. I know because thats my day job right now. I'm prob going to add spray as well, using the windshield pump, for heavy load and high heat conditions, a simple t'stat and boost pressure switch would accomplish the task. I'm not sure I understand why everyone is so quick to bag on the only guys out there trying stuff, some experiments succeed, some fail, but at least we have the nuts to try it out. The stock IC for the R55 is insufficient, my earlier experiment was a failure and I realized why, the volume tubes are too small and few in number and the core face is too small to boot. This one has much higher flow and so the boost maintains flow rate and pressure, and has sufficient face area to have a much greater cooling effect. Just put in the IC and fans this morning so I will have to take some time to experiment but I will report what I find out. I think this would be most beneficial on a tight, slower speed track where heavy boost is used pretty frequently but the car never sees 80 to 100 MPH to build up a huge cooling airflow through the IC. Thats what my engineering background would tell me.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=6c50075350

 

here's the thread
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ject-done.html

 

My diesel dodge engages its fan( electric clutch engine driven fan) when the ac is on at a stoplight and it will disengage at 25-30mph. Sounds like an airplane taking off. The IC is in front of everything so it gets the cool air first.So the idea is sound.

 

peltiers may be inefficient, but, i still think itd be cool to at least TRY! i think, even if you could get a few degrees cooling out of a setup, you would have "success".

I have thought about (and still want to) doing the AC compressor from a mini fridge somewhere on the IC, or the SC horns. If the thing ran constantly, you could possibly keep that metal cool.

i disagree about the water to air IC's (but to be honest, i dont have one, nor have i tested one). the only reason i disagree, is bc of the big diesel trucks. they have huge Turbos, and therefore large IC's. They USED to use water to air IC's, until the realized they can only get the water So cold... which turned out to be never nearly as close to ambient air temperature! so, they eventually switched their ICs back over to just air cooled. This concept will most likely work while sitting at a stop light, but once you start moving, as Zippy stated, our ICs cool off quite quickly.

does anyone think adding basic aluminum heat sinks onto the SC horns may provide any additional heat dissipation?

 

Just get water/meth and this discussion all becomes really irrelevant.

 

yes, it would make this all a moot point... but, what is the point of killing the engineering discussion?! yes, we KNOW meth / water works. im willing to bet, some dudes somewhere were all sitting around, doing just like we are, trying to find ways to add power to their cars and trucks, till one drunk hick says "hey! lets dump meth into the engine!" and Bam, tuners have meth.

point being, that if new thoughts are not thought of and ideas discussed, then all is lost, and we might as well shut down NAM.

 

The idea behind an intercooler is to cool the air charge for a performance gain. Your engine is not really doing any work at idle, so it really does not do anything to cool it at idle. Agreed... the stock and GP ICs heat soak and cool off quickly. If you were to floor it, then idle down afterward, the IC will probably be cooled off by the time you stop moving. The rest of the cooling will have to be done by your radiator and its cooling fans.

Aside from water/meth, the only other effective thing that's low cost is getting the IC coated. I had my stock IC professionally done, but I chose to do the job myself with my GP IC. Picked up a can of Eastwood black radiator paint for $15.

 

Yes, water/meth probably the best.

Maybe I've got a dirty intercooler because I've noticed that I do not cool off quickly even while moving. In stop and go (particularly at metering lights), my IATs reach 120F or more (70ish day). Terrible to take off with, pinging in my case at WOT (don't want to hijack talking about possible pinging causes, I've already explored everything here, only octane helps it). It will cool in just under a minute to 8-11 over ambient when cruising around 60mph.

If I hit more traffic, IAT goes back up. Just want IATs down when starting to go to get that nice crisp driving feeling.

 

You would find it much easier just to mock up a intercooler spray system than deal with fans. It wouldn't cost what the meth kit would but then again its uses are more limited. It would give you the opportunity to tinker, which kinda sounds like what you are hoping to do anyways.

 

Fans are useful for remote located radiators that don't see direct flow. Think trans/diff coolers. Those are a better candiate as they aren't blocking much if any air flow

 

You understand, of course, that Peltier coolers get cold on one side and hot on the other. So now you have to get rid of the heat from the hot side, which is much greater than that absorbed by the cold side, since the Peltier device is nowhere near 100% efficient.

 

And that means that with little/no airflow, the heat issue would be worse...
You could add mass....by adding heatsinks to delay heatsoak, hold the heat/cold...but then you just loose the advantage of a quick cooling ic...so the heavier aftermarket ic is what you end up with...but with a built in heater?! Add ducting for the peltiers...but space....complexity....

 

it sounds like your IC may be oil coated on the inside. recommend removing it, and using solvents of some sort to clean its internals. theres prolly 8 ways of doing this, several on the forums. I personally used Heavy Duty Silicone Lubricant spray (walmart, $2 a can), bc that stuff is great for removing oil and gas (use it on my RC cars all the time) and it dries with no residue

I did mock up an IC sprayer actually, i still have the piece. its literally a sport water bottle with my old window sprayer from my celica (sounds hinky, but it works great, bc the bottle is easily refilled). there are several reasons why i have NOT done the IC sprayer: 1. ive read that someone did this, and the water leaked down onto the injectors and caused corrosion. 2. ive heard a story where someone (not on a mini) did the sprayer thing, and popped their IC due to the temp differential. 3. as you state, it has limited use, meaning i have to use a switch to activate it, and refill the water on a regular basis.

I do understand how peltiers work: hot / cold. what im hoping, is to "cold soak" the IC. Not so worried about the peltiers heat, as that will be easily dissipated when you start driving (or with the help of heat sinks + small fans possibly)

 

...again, i was thinking of putting the peltiers on the SC horns, and the Front / back of the IC, where there are nice big flat spots. this would not cover up any air flow.

anyone think using a compressor from a mini fridge would work? wrap the cooling coil around the SC horns, or put it on top of the IC itself?

 

I simply do not think you can get the btu's you need from a few peltier chips...
They would be hard pressed to make ANY cold in the hot engine bay...their limitation is they can cool to about 40 f lower than ambient temp....so you need to guarantee a cool air scource...
The mini fridge idea is kinda complex..adds ac power...needing a dc to ac inverter (due to a surge requiremeny you need about 2500+watts)...addind a second ac compressor would be more efficent if you are going down that route...cheaper too!!

 

i dont think youd need 2.5 kw of power to power a small fridge compressor. they only use about an amp AC (even directly dividing, thats only 100amps DC, still not even a KW). I was hoping to bypass the AC power needs, (thinking there is a built in inverter?) and use just DC power (may require dc-dc converter).

you can get those small fridges on CL for like $20 sometimes. What kind of super sub-zero fridges do you have! lol