Okay guys- I haven't posted here much, but I'm in the middle of a crisis and I couldn't think of a better place to go...

My '04 MCS JCW just blew a piston ring bearing, and essentially I've got two options- pull out the existing engine and rebuild/overhaul it, or source an engine and perform a transplant. My wallet is of limited depth at the moment, so I don't think the labor involved with a full rebuild is within my means right now. That leaves a heart transplant, and this is where my knowledge starts to run thin.

I know that our MCS engines are basically just supercharged versions of the same 1.6 tritec used in the MC. My supercharger is fine, as are many of my other engine components aside from the block/pistons/crankshaft. Is it possible to swap the MC engine into my car, using the additional Cooper S components, or are there fundamental differences between the engines that would prevent this? In theory, I'd think that the block, pistons, and core internals are the same between the two, so dropping the naturally aspirated engine into the car and supercharging it makes sense to me.

Has anyone else done an engine swap or a similar job? I'd really appreciate anything you guys can throw at me!

PS- here's a link to the engine I'm currently looking at.

 

Sorry this is not correct.
There are a number of differences that make the MC motor not a good option to just put a super charger on. If this was true you would see lots of 'I just converted my MC to an MCS' posts.

 

+1 The r50 engines are not the same, first & formost they are a higher compression, It Will Not Like A Supercharger!

Either rebuild what you have or buy a crate JCW motor from Way.

 

Having been looking for spare motors for my R56, I've come across a few Supercharged motors.. If you're willing to spend the time calling yards and wreckers, you'll find a good motor.

If you need to know what to ask or where to start inbox me, I do this quite a lot and I know theres a lot of scepticism involved by the inexperienced etc.

 

I was able to source an R53 engine (supercharger included) with pretty low mileage from a 2006 MCS. My new plan is to pull the old engine and disassemble it to determine what internals were damaged. I'm hoping that the JCW head is in good shape, that's kind of my biggest concern right now. I don't expect there to be any damage to much else, since the metal shavings of the bearing should have stayed mostly inside the combustion chamber. Assuming no larger bits went up through the exhaust ports in the head, I'd like to clean up and re-use the JCW head on the new engine, along with the other various JCW parts.

Sorry to sound so Naïve about the R50 engine- should have figured the compression ratios would be different, along with a few other key differences. There just seem to be a ton of MC engines out there!

I looked into the crate motors from WMW, and while they look absolutely badass I just don't have $5K in my budget right now. Once I pull the other engine, I'm thinking about building it up with reinforced internals; I'm even toying with the idea of boring & stroking it up to 2.0L. For THAT, I'll most definitely be seeking WMW's expertise, but that'll end up being a long-term project. My immediate goal is dropping a working lump in there for the time being, since the car is my daily driver.

Random side note: I've heard a lot of different opinions on this, but I know MINI made a ton of changes to the car in 2005, both cosmetically and mechanically. I've heard that my '04 ECU will plug-and-play with the new engine, but what changes can I expect with this new motor? i.e. the newer cars have a totally different pop & burble to them, and nobody seems to be able to replicate it in the older cars via the ECU, leading me to believe it's mechanically built into the newer engines. From what I understand, MINI also updated the blower, but the JCW unit boasts coated-abrasive rotors- was that a universal change to the supercharger, or is that a JCW-specific thing?

Thanks for your help and patience with me, everybody! This forum rocks.

 

Ask Rmw about rebuilding your motor.
often times its cheaper to just rebuild your motor from a quality vendor
Rmw, detroit tuned or way. then it is to get a junkyard motor with un known quality.

 

Absolutely agreed. The expertise of a quality shop with experience in MINI-specific performance tuning is worth every penny spent.

 

Coated rotors were always stock on jcw sc....it became stock on all mini S's with the 2005 model year.
The burble is from ecu programming...there was a updated ecu starting in 2005 too...the combo of the two items gave 2005+ s's a few mkre hp...
A trany ratio change in 2005 also improved accleration.

 

Ps
There are tons r50 motors arount cause when a cvt fails, the car gets junked 50% of the time...the repair does not make ecnomic sense for most owners/cars....
Edit...the cost of replacing an cvt tranny is about $6500-7500 depending on location...a large percentage of the value of most r50's depending year/miles/condition.

 

don't the R53's also use CVT's? If so your argument is invalid

 

R53's did not get the option of an auto tranny until 2005....and it is a full conventional torque converter tranny, made by Asin (of japan).

 

DAMN YOU>ME!!

wtg

 

ZippyNH, you're right- there are LOADS of R50 engines out there, due to the cost of the CVT failing beating the value of the car itself. Our other car is an '05 R50 Cabrio with the CVT, and it's already started to make some odd noises and... let's say "inappropriate" shifts.

So, is the general consensus that the burble is indeed an ECU thing? A MINI tech I spoke to in Florida a while back said that it was a physical change MINI made to the exhaust manifold that changed how unburnt fuel was post-detonated. According to him, adjusting the timing patterns through the ECU would change the character of the burble, but due to the hardware differences between the cars no matter how aggressively you tune an older engine you'll never get the same snap-crackle-pop that the newer cars get.

Again, a lot of this is theory as I've never done the research firsthand, but I am interested in seeing if anybody knows the deal.

...thanks for weighing in, everybody!

 

White roof radio and motoringfile both had info saying it was software...but remember, 2005+ cars also got an updated ecu that could monitor/adjust more items (so i have been told), and the software it runs is slightly different...this seemed to be reflected as truth when rmw/jan tuned my car in a chat with him at the dyno.....in any case many folks thought their cars were defective...and for a time the burble was getting removed....then returned with a bit of education from mini.....so it is certainly an interesting thing....manifoldd could be checked....look up a part # on real oem of a pre and post 2005 car...

 

Okay, so I've got an update on the situation:

I got the '06 engine shipped up here from Texas- it was in decent shape, except they didn't include an ECU... which was NOT cool. So I'm currently in the process of haggling with this guy to send up the ECU since it's vital to this whole project.

Meanwhile, the car's been in the shop being torn down completely. When he got in there, my guy told me there were a lot of "half-a**" wiring jobs and bits of things hacked together- it was all functional, but someone obviously didn't put much TLC into it either. We'll be taking care of that...

I had a full set of Powerflex motor mount bushings shipped to me from OutMotoring, which just arrived the other day. They'll be going in with the new engine. Since the old engine had the JCW kit on it, I'll be having my guy swap the fuel injectors, supercharger, and cylinder head from the old one to the new one. The JCW air intake and exhaust stay in there, and until I can get Mr. Texas to send me the new ECU I'll use my old ECU as well. This way, we'll really find out if the burble lives in the hardware or the software.

I'll be swinging by the shop early in the morning to check up on the job and pick up the blown engine. I want to break it down and see what actually happened in there- if the block wasn't damaged, I'll start investigating the long-term possibility of building a stroker.

Does anybody else have any suggestions as to "essential" things to replace while the engine's out? My clutch is in good shape, so I'm keeping that. I'm doing the bushings... perhaps replacing the upper & lower motor mounts themselves? I could also use a pair of new intercooler boots...

I'll take some photos of the situation in the morning.
Thanks everyone!

 

You need to use your DME / ECU. The one frm the engine is not going to do you any good without the EWS and some programming. Why not just use your DME? The engine being a 2006 is not any different that it being an 04.

Also I have an 04 with the JCW 210hp software and the burble is crazy, still on an o4 ECU / DME.

 

So I picked up the car this morning- here's the lowdown:

-It's got a stock '05 engine (was told it was an '06 on the phone, but I suppose it doesn't matter) with an '04 ECU w/JCW software.

-The car also has the JCW exhaust and air intake on it, but NOT the 380cc injectors, cylinder head, or supercharger.

-I've got the blown '04 engine at home. I'll be taking it apart over the next week or so, and assuming the old JCW parts are in good shape I'll be installing them back onto the new '05 engine. At that time, we'll do the Powerflex bushings.


I'm still going to ride Mr. Texas guy for the newer ECU for two reasons; first of all, I paid for a complete engine assembly, so I expect a full engine assembly. Secondly, as it's been stated already in this thread, the newer ECUs have more parameters that can be adjusted which allows for flexibility in the future when it comes time for tuning. Also, I'm not just after "burble" per se- the later R53's burble, but the exhaust produces a distinctly different noise, more of a "snap-crackle-pop" that simply can't be recreated with the older cars. Cutting out the resonator the JCW exhaust made a world of difference, but no matter what there just doesn't seem to be a substitute for the '05-'06 ECU.

 

The burble has jack to do with the newer DME. Its all software, Again I have an 04 and updated to JCW software. No burble before JCW update, tons after.

Your mind is made up. Good luck.

 

In my world a complete engine does not have a ECU. That is totally different and if I got sent one with an engine I would think the guy selling was not a professional.

 

I agree. We have a BMW junk yard and a DME is not included with an engine.

 

R50 engines don't have forged internals (pistons, rods, crank). That's why they are not worth re-using, especially if you don't reuse the internals you have now. I don't know offhand if the blocks have a physical design difference beyond that.

The MCS blocks are all the same. The main change was going to a teflon-coated rotor supercharger from the factor in '05-'06 models (same as what comes in a JCW kit, which you already have), as well as a slightly different tune from 163HP to 168HP. Since you have a JCW kit, you have a JCW tune. You need to keep your ECU and re-use the JCW injectors (380cc vs. stock 330cc). Yes, re-use the head, as long as it did not sustain damage. Get it checked out to determine if the valve guides need replacing, etc.

The burble/backfire effect is really a preference. I don't recall if '04 models have it, but I know the '05-'06 models do. The ECU detects a deceleration and does some extra random fuel trimming to create the sound. I don't know if the ECU has some extra tuning to read the O2 sensors differently based on this effect.

The one issue with '06 blocks is the timing chain tensioner goes bad. I had mine replaced last summer. Get that checked out while the block is out. Replace just the part if the chain is in good condition. Or re-use the chain/tensioner from your old engine if they are not damaged.

 

THIS is the kind of information I've been looking for!

After having driven with the new engine for a couple of days now, it would seem that the burble is indeed ECU based. The car is burbling exactly the same as it was before the swap, so I'm inclined to think there's an extra parameter or two in there that allow for tweaking of it.


As far as the engine assembly coming with an ECU, I guess I'm just not that familiar with buying MINI engines. It's been my experience in swapping Japanese import engines that the whole assembly comes as a complete drop-in package, mechanicals and related electrics are all in a nice tidy little lump that installs in like an hour. I'm still learning when it comes to MINI/BMW engines, so please bear with me. If it's not standard procedure to ship an ECU with a MINI or BMW engine, so be it. I'll track one down somewhere else. I didn't mean to sound cocky or anything, I apologize.

:NEW SYMPTOM:
The "Check Gas Cap" light comes on and stays on shortly after starting the engine, but once the car reaches operating temperature, it goes out. It then comes and goes intermittently as I drive. I've already checked my filler cap- I promise, it's closed tightly. Haven't had a chance to plug in the scan tool yet, but my theory is that the JCW tune is looking for injectors with an extra +/- 40cc of capacity that just isn't there, so it's throwing a fuel system-related code. Assuming that's the issue, swapping the JCW parts back in should take care of it, right? I also replaced the fuel filter while the engine work was being done since I had a spare one laying around. Would that set off a similar code?

 

Definitely put in the JCW injectors, when you can. So long as you don't go WOT (wide-open throttle) until then, you should be fine. The gas cap issue is vacuum-related. It has to do with how the system becomes pressurized in conjunction with your fuel pump. Double-check all vacuum lines and reinspect the connections to the fuel rail. Make sure the injectors are seated into the block well and the injector o-rings have not been pinched or misaligned.

 

Check your Tank vent valve, on the right side of the engine. When those get stuck open, you will get a check gas cap light.

 

I started tearing down the engine today- I removed everything attached to the engine block except the cylinder head. The JCW injectors were in great shape, although one of them had white crusty gunk caked to it, which I'm assuming is related to the very issue that killed the engine in the first place. Cleaned 'em up anyway.

Here's a question: now that I've got the JCW injectors out, I'm confident enough working on my own car that I'm sure I could install them without a problem. Is there anything I should know about the job? Is it really just plug-n-play, or do I have to bleed/vent the system? I feel like anything I can do to get the car back to JCW condition as soon as possible is a good thing.

The JCW blower is in great shape, too- I'll be having the intercooler horns polished a bit, there's some extra metal flashing and junk on them that could be cleaned up. I know there's not really any power to be had from sculpting the airflow in there, but I figure while I've got them off I may as well do it, right?