Ok so the title might be a little harsh, but in reality it could happen.

*DISCLAIMER* This thread will probably not apply to 90% of the people on this forum. I am puting it up though because there is always that 1% of people like me that are intreastd in products like this, and another 5% that are just curious. The other 4% of you that just happen to stumble into this thread, Buckle up it is probably going to be one hell of a ride.

What is Vipec? Vipec is a company that makes Engine Management Systems (Aftermarket Standalone ECU's) and efforts are currently underway to bring a plug and play unit to the MINI market. (I can not name the distributer, due to forum rules) But they are currently doing some testing of the first "prototype" units.

What does this mean? Finally FULL tuning capabilities without all the adaptations (That are nearly impossible to work around) built into our factory ECU's! It is the answer to what the small percentage of people like me have been looking for from the start. Any tuner can only do so much with a factory ECU that constantly tries to make changes to the tune, no matter how good they are. Some people have tried the ByteTroniK software released last year, and had good results with tuning on their own. However a total standalone system such as Vipec hands down blows it out of the water.

The problem with the stock ECU, is mainly the adaptations and inability to access some of the factory features burried in the programing. The factory program is also based off of torque calculations, and there arent many tuners out there (That are interested in our comunity) that know how to work with this type of programing. Not to mention all the mapping of the factory ECU is in a LOW RESOLUTION! (Most of the main maps are in a 20X12 format) What this does is make it harder for extensively modified cars to get the tune right, and have that nice smooth factory feeling.

Vipec is a universal standalone system, adapted for use as a plug and play system specific to MINI's. No more adaptives, no more torque based thinking, and BIGGER (High Res) mapping! It does what you or your tuner tells it to do, nothing more nothing less, and with greater accuracy. Anybody capible of tuning a car will understand how this system works, and how to correctly tune your car, it is really that simple. Plus there is manny more features than the factory ECU allows such as: Launch controll, soft and hard rev limits, ability to tune with the car running (Please don't TUNE and DRIVE, most people cant even use a phone and drive regardless of what they say.) You can also switch maps more easily, having them stored directly in the new system its self, even have it switch tunes automaticly as a FAIL SAFE shuld something bad happen.

If this things so great whats the problem?
Well for starter's, it's not OBD capible making it for OFF ROAD USE ONLY! It is like ByteTroniK in the sence that it opens the door for the inexperianced to change mapps around, do it wrong, and have their engine scatter parts for a mile or so down the freeway. And it WILL disable some features controlled by the factory ECU that will no longer be there.

Where's the problem indeed? I see no problem, and I'm already out one engine. When setup correctly (On your NON road going car.) it will be the ultimate in engine controll, and be able to make the absolute most out of the performance of your car.

ByteTroniK better step it up, they are about to loose some customer's.

Anybody with more information on this product is encouraged to chime in, my knowledge on the subject is limmited.

***DISCLAIMER #2, If you do manage to blow a motor using this product thinking you can tune your own car, there is nobody to blame but yourself! And it's an expensive mistake to make, just ask how I know.***

Price of the ViPEC + a base tune= $2250.00

 

Sounds interesting.

 

I have a standalone system on my heavily modified VW. The motor would have been impossible to run on it's stock ECU. However I spent the better part of 1 year tuning it driving, logging, tweaking to the point that it gets better mileage than stock while cruising but makes tons of power and idles perfectly smooth. The key is knowing what you're doing. I can't wait to put the ViPEC on the R53 and not have to deal with the ECU thinking that it knows better than the tuner.

 

Interesting indeed. It just needs to hit the market.

 

Nobody likes fighting an ECU thats constantly fighting back. Sounds like you have some more experiance with systems like this than I do, PLEASE share.

 

****,
The thread title is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I suggest you or one of the moderators do something about it.

 

It's good, as with anything that allows full end user tuning it can and will happen.
Better to get a warning out first thing.

 

Here is the base "UNIVERSAL" standalone system, it's a good look into what the system is capible of.

VIPEC LINK

On paper it sounds almost too good to be true, but I am still questioning how it will react with the other MINI electronic's. The factory ECU is linked into the speed, and gear position sensors along with other data gathering device's on the car. Will it be able to run theese sensors so we can retain the basic items such as: the speedometer, the factory traction controll switch, will the gauges that come with the Chrono Pack still work, and all of the warning indicators (SES light, EML light, etc.) will they still retain any function? What about logging capabilities? I know Vipec has their own logging tools, but will they come at an extra cost?

 

Your above concerns are exactly why mini owners have waited so long for it. The factory has been setting up the soon to be released Vipec, so it is plug and play meaning everything works exactly the same as the factory ECU. It has taken literally months for them to get everything to function as it should.

From there all sorts of wonderful things can be done by anyone who knows what they are doing.

Vipec is not going to market the ECU as a great way for people to start their tuning career and say it is so easy anyone can do it. Dropping it in and driving will be easy though, tuning correctly, not so easy.

Bytetronik did market itself as a great way for the average guy to start tuning their car, and if I remember correctly, they made it sound easy. I can't seem to get to a bytetronik site as it is parked, so at best, no one paid for the annual registration of the name. I was going to look up and quote their marketing.

For this reason alone, the Vipec and Bytetronik software will never be on the same level. How they are marketed matters, and bytetronik was marketed as a easy way to self tune.

 

The only real advertising that I have personally seen for ByteTroniK has been theese two. Both leave it 100% up to you on if you want to seek out profesional help or not. IMHO when theese adds where written there should be a disclaimer in the add urging people to atleast seak a pro tuner for advise at the minimum. It really dosent say it's going to be easy, just that it alows end user tuning capibilities, its all on how the add's are precived by the consumer.

From Way Motor Works add...

Bytetronik FullAccess FA53 tuning kit. This tuning software kit is for 2002-2006 R50,R52,R53 MINI Cooper and Cooper S. This is not just another remote tune module. This is the complete program for YOU to tune your own MINI. That's right, this software will allow you to connect to your ECU/DME and open all the files for timing, fuel, throttle, RPM, idle, injector scaling, and a few more. Then you can adjust everything to YOUR spec, no need to find a MINI tuner near you.

This software also does data logging. So now you can log all the engine parameters and use them to complete your tune. No other system has this ability.

M7's add...

The Bytetronik FA53 Kit is a comprehensive tool for the MINI R50/R52/R53 owners, providing them the capabilities to adjust the mappings inside their stock ECUs. The kit contains both hardware and software components with the following features and capabilities.

Hardware: The hardware is the MINIport OBD-II device along with a USB cable. The MINIport also doubles as a data-logger device and can also log AFT serially (provided you have an Innovate LC1 or MTX-L device). Does not work with AEM, PLX Devices, or any other wideband serial communication. Only works with Innovate products at this time.

Software: The FullAccess (FA53) software is a Bytetronik proprietary software designed specifically for the MINI R53 platform. It's about 10MB in size and can easily be installed on any Windows Platform (Windows 2000 or newer with a minimum of 512MB of RAM). The FA53 has an easy to use GUI for user to easily navigate through the various levels of tasks and commands. When connected to the MINIport, it allows users to flash and configure their ECUs.

Features:

• ECU Adjustments This allows the ser to adjust the mappings inside the ECU and tune the engine to maximize the fuel that's being used. Once you are satisfied with the tune, you can save the map and reload it back into the ECU at any given time.
• Map Switching Once the maps are made (typically for 91 Octane, 93 Octane, 100 Octane, Methanol, or E85 fuel), then you can simply switch it back by loading the particular map that best suits the situation. For instance, if you are currently running E85 but there are no E85 stations nearby, you could get your laptop out and load the "pump gas" map once you fill it up at the next gas station.
• Data Logging If you want to see how the car is running wile you're driving. Simply disconnect the USB cable from the MINIport device (while leaving it connected to the OBD-II port), and the data-logging feature is now active. Blinking red/green/blue lights indicate that the MINIport is actively logging 30+ parameters at 8 samples-per-second, and all this information is stored on the onboard micro-SD card. To view the logs, simply connect the USB cable to the MINIport device and you will see the data on your laptop.
• Read and clear Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) Is you MINI throwing a Check-Engine light? Well, instead of reaching for the OBD Scanner, why not just turn on your laptop and see what's causing the code? Once the code is read, you can always clear it through the FA53 software.
• Clearing Adaptations Is your car running sluggish lately? Well, check out the data-log and see if there's anything that looks unusual. What about the "long Term Fuel Trims"? Is the ECU learning some of your bad habits and over-compensating? If so, simply go to the FA53 and clear the adaptation values. With the FA53 software, you don't need a BMW Factory tool to perform this task... simply select a command in FA53, turn off the ignition for 5 minutes, then you should be good to go!

No warning's or suggestions to seek help in either. M7 did add a sort of disclaimer at the bottom that says "
Note: Loading the Bytetronik FA53 into your ECU does not make the car go faster. It allows you to have control over your car and enables you access to the ECU so it can be custom tuned by yourself or another tuner."

From the begining at MYNES, the original focus was for people to utilize their "Autherised Tuners" and if you wanted to venture into tuning yourself, it was all on you. Many people did go the self tune route, some have had good results some not so good, but we where all made aware of the risks before we started. On that forum there have been different "Suggestion's" on perameters thrown out there, but it was still 100% up to the user.

I hope that the Vipec units are going to have some basic instruction/tech support that comes with them. And I also hope that they are marketed correctly, telling people "Tuning IS NOT easy" and that they shuld seek a tuner familliar with standalone ECU's for tuning and or advise. I am sure that most of the people who purchace this product will have it tuned by the distributer, but there are people like me that would want a good base map, and do the rest themselves or with an independant tuner. It's really an open door for anybody to get into.

You say that the Vipec system is going to be 100% compliant with all factory functions (Other than being OBD compliant) then I have to say that's great! As long as it all works out that way.

 

The Vipec...Where to start. Its going to be pretty awesome.

Should you be using it if you have zero idea of what you are doing? NO. Will it blow your motor? NO! Who ever is tuning it can though. Is it better then the Tronic? By far, Tronic is a ECU hack its why you have to install it onto the ECU among other reasons.

On ECU No Lift To Shift (NLTS), boost control, LC(launch Control) with ability to build boost, AFR tracking, Real Time Programing (RTP), datalogging, HUGE MAPS, map switching. I mean its a pretty awesome set up.

The sad part about all this, is that people are excited to see this owe a HUGE thanks to ONE company that can't be said on here...retarded but whatever. With out that company and the owner this would not be anywhere near where its at.

VIPEC>bytetronic

 

The best way to tune is to start with a conservative base map. The tuning on a dyno is easy - you know the target AFR for max power so you set that value for the AFT @ 100% TPS or whatever boost level is appropriate for WOT.
Once you have the car hitting those AFR's on your base map, you can slowly adjust WOT timing and carry out a run on the dyno to see if you pickup or lose power. Always tweak your timing + or - 1 or at most 2 degrees per run.

Tuning the acceleration enrichment for part throttle and cruising is harder and really requires driving, seeing how the car responds and tweaking.
You are right - if one goes into this without a basic understanding of how a motor works and should respond you can ruin your motor.

Jan and RMW made this happen - I am sure he will be supporting it.

 

I like the title....
says it all...
Becareful....procede slowly, and with great risks comes great dangers.
lets face it, once you start running a motor at 2x it desgin limits, thing do fail....frequently and often....but lots of fun. Folks sometimes for get this....this thread title will keep the uniformed or the not very smart away....
interesting to know it is out there, prettt neat what can be done.
While non odb2 compliant, is it possible to swap out the box and plug in the stock, or must the harness be chopped up?!

 

I understand what you are saying, but keep in mind, the pro tuners have software, Bytronik was for the average Joe to tune. That was the main function.

I seem to remember something like "now anyone can tune a mini" or something along those lines.


The current info I have as to how it will be sold is:


"It will have a few base maps built for the car for the normal combo's (of options)
They will have basic scalings for injectors, acceleration fueling and timing maps
this will allow them to drive the car to a tuning facility etc

ANY good tuner can tune these cars now with this ecu. Anyone that wants to fine tune their car can do it, while you drive. You can instantly see if the change was correct. You ALWAYS know exactly which cells it is looking at. What could take hours learning with the stock ecu will now take seconds"


Without knowing the specifics, it seems the experience will be much simpler no matter who uses it. It is however hardware that behaves differently than the stock ECU. You are buying hardware, that can be tuned, rather than software, that can tune stock ECUs.

 

So what youre saying is it will be sold like ByteTroniK was, but with a totaly new (To MINI) ECU. Base maps + the option for the distributer to tune. The hardware upgrade alone is enough to make regular tunes seem like kid's toys.
For anual inspection/smog checks you can have your factory ECU tuned to run the car super clean, and just swap it back in for the inspection. Then when you return home unplug the Factory ECU and hook the Vipec back up with your performance tune already loaded.

I have told multiple people through PM's/Email that I am an equal opperitunity modder, and just go with who has what I feel is the best parts for my application. Looks like when I get an engine built a certian shop (That shall remain nameless) will eventually be getting some more of my money.


You know it's actually nice talking to you guys again, without the arguements that always seem to break out.

 

I'm sorry, but the title looks very inflammatory, and doesn't really gel with the tone of your thread.

 

I am currently running this very ECU on my R53. Some of the other benefits not mentioned in this thread are...
Just to explain something quickly I do run a cam that is far too large for a logical street application that the ECU was constantly fighting such as pulling fuel not running the correct timing and other just generally annoying things. So with swapping this over made my car drive like a stock car till it comes on cam then its look out time!
I also picked up a ton of low end torque because i simply could get the fueling worked out with my tuner. He also could address slight driveablity issues while i drove quickly and on the fly. I really am loving this so far. Also Install is a breeze, just un plug your battery and take the cover and two plugs off your stock ECU and swap this bad boy in!
Also did i mention Linear throttle, many think that the mini throttle response is 1:1 from the pedal to the throttle plate. oddly enough its not. with this slight issue fixed it makes the car way way more fun to drive very snappy and it heads into boost easily.
Other side benefits are you can run literally any sized injector within reasonable limit say 1000cc for ridiculous power.
As mentioned it will not correct for anything so it makes it more crucial to make sure you keep your vehicle healthy.
Another fun part of this is, on the fly map switching, so if you were concerned about running meth and then running yourself out of meth. with the addition of a flow sensor it will on the fly seamlessly switch to a safe map for running without meth.
And for MrD's garage another useful too for him would be a flex fuel sensor, so should he want to run E85 he could install that sensor so it would swap maps when the ecu detects the magical E-gas he prefers. Sure the leg work in the beginning could be a bit more but at the end of the day if you want big power in a mini this may be the way to go.

 

The tuning page's look is fully customizable. Here is a fuel table setup. This example has tabs setup for ignition, knock etc etc






You will have to swap ECU for emissions because it will not interface. A good tune should run as clean as the stock tune, if not better, but the Vipec will not connect for emissions. If your state just ran the test on a roller with a tailpipe sniffer, it should pass no problem, but in CT at least, all they do is look for codes, no codes = pass.

 

A standalone ecu will always have the upper hand in tuning, it's like bringing a gun to a knife fight. I have been using the ByteTronik software and the innovative wideband since January on my turbo only setup. Let me tell you, it runs a hell of a lot better then it did when I was running on just the AFC II. My idle and transitions are smooth. The car's a/f r is spot on throughout the rpm range up to 7500. I am currently hitting over 29psi (max the gauge reads) on a stock bottom end and have yet to have a failure. Although I expect it to fail, the software does what it says it will do.

I am not arguing either way, as I know the stand alone would work better for me and if their price is right and I hear great results with it, and I may switch over. As for now the ByteTronik works well and I am happy with it.

 

I agree, but I think Bytetronik's price is it's biggest enemy. If it was sold in the $4-500 range than it would be worth a try or usage.

For $500-750 you can buy an AEM or Haltech piggyback allowing you to do the same thing with tons of support and tuners out there.

 

Thread title is perfect for any flash tuning or standalone solution.

I'd rather have AEM or Haltech make this available and only retail $1100, because I could careless about the RMW monopolizing regime. If they were all about the community then they'd have more solutions available, their about picking a product/tech that nobody uses or not easy to attain and making it a magical must have because it's slightly better than the other guys. The worse of it is they treat customers like competitors.

How much is ViPec going to cost? I can bet you $1600+500+ to tune, not worth the cost, who will tune it? If you need anything more than a flash, haltech/aem piggy-backs, or Bytetronik then you might as well go full blown gutted race team/shop Haltech, Hydra or Motec. BECAUSE I'd say 98% of the R53 owners will only need the below.

AEM FIC
http://www.aemelectronics.com/fuel-i...sal-f-ic-6-626
Harness
http://www.aemelectronics.com/ecu-pa...s-30-2991-1013

For ~$700, you don't have to worry about the ECU wanting to changing parameters like a flash and you are not screw during inspection/emissions time. Haltech has the Platinum Interceptor piggyback for ~$700 that works just like the AEM FIC too.

The priceless part is you can go to anyone to tune it. The majority of tuners tune AEM and Haltech, their well backed and supported. And until the tuner of my choice adds ViPec to here I wont use it. http://www.evans-tuning.com/select_your_efi_system.html

 

First of all how is RMW monopolizing? Just because there is nobody out there that can compete with them? I have always been treated like a customer with RMW also. Don't know where you came from with that.

I dont think you have really talked to Jan, he will do ANYTHING you want him to do. All you have to do is ask and have the money. Hell LB was the one that came up with using the Rotrex....

The AEM FIC can't hold a candle to the Vipec. It is the biggest POS. The only guys I see using that is the honda world. I dont understand when they have so many GREAT options like NEPtune and others. The Haltec I will give you that a pretty good standalone. Software needs some work but all in all its a good ECU. AEM are the biggest POS's around that's why they had to bring out the new I-10 ECU it should put them back in the game. I have seen SO many AEM's fail and kill sensor after sensor. The Vipec is going to be plug and play to install. The AEM, Haltech, MS, Motec, no so much, have fun wiring it in. We can sit here and argue what system is better then what but there is no point. The Vipec will do everything you need it to do then some.

On your cost. You get what you pay for. Like I said AEM's are cheap a POS. That's why it goes for 1K and less when used. I personally watched it kill 6 cam sensors in a EVO in a month, and 2 CAS in a supra in a week. Two totally different units, one was a S1 the other was a S2...like I said JUNK.

The Vipec is going to be around the 2K price point. You buy it and Jan will tune it or you buy it and have ANY TUNER tune it. Its a simple device noting like the Tronic. It is super easy to tune. So you have a option. Without RMW there would be ZERO options for a PnP standalone at this moment.

 

Whoa guys, take a little breather and lets keep this thread civil.

First off, I support any competing manufacturer bringing products into the MINI scene. I have bought products from MYNES, RMW, and multiple other smaller vendors, and I don't see any of them manopolizing over another. Yes there are people who remain loyal to their prefferance of tuner, but that dosent make it a monopaly. Last year this time it was MYNES that had multiple new products about to hit the shelf, now it's RMW's turn for some new stuff. People are going to buy what they want.

AEM does have some pretty decent products, not much that is really MINI speciffic though. Halitech is the same story as AEM, nothing that is plug and pay that retains full use of the car's other electronic components.

Vipec on the other hand IS produsing a MINI specific standalone system that is supposed to retain full use of everything in the car. (Minus the OBD)

1320 MINI over in the UK, has also developed a standalone system, and it has been in use longer than ByteTroniK. Problem with that system is the $2K is pretty much just a down payment. (After paying all the fees that get tacked on, exchange rates, and the shipping rates.) But it is a viable option.

Piggybacks are also an option, but many of them dont work out so good on our cars because the OEM ECU is still there trying to do it's job. (Which is evedently keeping us from doing what we wan the car to do.) Look at UniChip, it was a piggyback system that was great when it was all we had. Now they are for the most part considered junk. All because the factory ECU would eventualy step in and try making changes.

Vipec is happening, and it will blow the compitition out of the water, either forcing them to give up or step up their game. There are tons of people out there that are certified tuner's that are able to tune the Vipec. I know of 4 that are local here in Denver alone.

That $2K price seems a little steep until after you figgure, ByteTroniK = roughly $800 with no hardware upgrades, Piggybacks (AEM, Halitec, take your pick) = $1K-$1500 for the full setup that has to keep the same finikey ECU.

I for one (Never thought I would say this again) THANK RMW, for stepping foreward, upping the ante, and kicking a full plug and play system into production.

 

Guys my tuner in Oz is a Vipec distributer and he spoke to Vipec directly in New Zealand, and I have also spoken to the Aussie Vipec guys.

The plug and play Vipec v88 is still undergoing testing in New Zealand and they will not release it untill all the testing is finalised.... and it could be several months away or even the end of next year.

We were told when released the pricing will be around the $2500 - $3000 Aussie dollar mark.

As Trickle X has stated any stand alone is going to provide a better tunning option than the stock ECU. However it may be overkill for most. But I am very excited about this....

As for PAImportTuner I ran a Haltech interceptor on my mini for several years and it worked great and provided a better tune than a custom Dimsport tune I had on the car previously. However it has limitations.

I am now running the ByteTronic software and the tune was done by my local shop and this is the best tune I have had to date no issues and more power.... so I can't complain

 

I know that I will most likely be ordering this ecu from January Jones as soon as it is released.

:D