https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t-install.html guess phil put it to rest! Like i thought! Oh yeah fishbert.... eat my shorts!

 

I'm not yet convinced. I'll admit my position is less certain, but we have a 'he said / she said' case between a "high level" MINI service bay employee (in quotes because I mean relative to the levels present at a dealership, it's not MINI engineering or something like that) saying one thing and a guy who makes a living selling boost taps and catch cans saying another.

And it still doesn't quite pass the smell test. With all the intake port carbon buildup issues (that MINI is well aware of), why would they decide to push all that crud through the intercooler… which would only act as a giant, un-drainable catch can? No, I find that a sufficiently extraordinary leap to make that I need more than a catch can salesman saying otherwise to convince me (no offense to Phil, who I'm sure is a lovely person).

-------

EDIT:
You know, a relatively simple way to test this might be to detach the driver side hose from the valve cover with the engine running and see if there's any suction (*at the valve cover; not at the hose). If crankcase fumes are routed via a different path to the combustion chamber, there will be suction… but if that is now the only path for crankcase fumes to take, it will blow instead (no spaceballs references, please).

 

It is simple, the tech is wrong.

You're telling me you are willing to accept someone telling you that if that hose tears or comes unclipped for any reason a path directly into the combustion chamber will be open? Oil vapor combusts and you are willing to accept that there is a direct path from the combustion chamber, which is a source of actual explosions, to the primary source of oil vapor?

I am not trying to be rude to you, but really think about that.

Getting off the topic of how the valve cover and pcv system work for a moment...

Oil is routed into the intake because federal law mandates it as such. Vapors must be kept inside the system as a whole to remain emissions compliant. The only way to do this is to pass it back into the engine and then out the exhaust through a catalytic convertor.

The reason for this oily systems existence is for another purpose entirely than flowing oil around. This system must be in place as its primary purpose is to vent crank case pressure, or the pressure formed by pressure in the combustion chamber passing by the piston rings. Failure to vent crank pressure beats the heck out of all the seals on the engine and reduces pumping efficiency by giving resistance to the crank.

The answer to why they would go through the turbo and intercooler is simple. Put the car on the lift, remove hoses from intercooler, flush out, re-install. This process is not nearly so simple when "remove intake manifold" is a step.

Additionaly to this point is the same reason catch cans dont come on cars. Most consumers dont maintain their cars properly. An average consumer will never remove their intercooler pipes themselves therefore never seeing the oil drain out and never thinking "thats not right". A typical consumer will brush off the loss of power over time as intercooler efficiency fades as "its getting old". An average consumer is late on their oil changes, this is not an option with catch can draining without noticeable, fortunately in most cases not permanent, consequence.

And just for the heck of it, catch cans and boost taps would never support my lifestyle. Although a real business with staff and a 13,000 sq ft building, this is fun for me, I've done it my whole life but have other endeavors that are my bread and butter.

Hopefully I have passed the smell test and earned your trust.

-Phil

 

No, I haven't said any such thing. Any time that I may have used the word 'direct' it would have been in contrast to taking the "scenic route" through the turbo, intercooler, charge piping, etc. What I understand based on what DneprDave was told by his dealerships shop foreman (and what makes the most sense to me barring evidence to the contrary), is that the the valve cover on the new N18 engine basically incorporates the function that these 4 little hoses on the revised intake manifold for N14 engines do — route crankcase fumes directly to the intake ports (but past the intake manifold).

Taking off the intake manifold is not that difficult. Doesn't need a lift, don't have to deal with all those little plastic fasteners… I can do it myself in my driveway in about 10 minutes (though I am cheating a little without the stock airbox).
Granted, blasting carbon out of intake ports with walnut shells isn't exactly a simple thing… but turning your intercooler into a catch can? If it really was as benign as you make it sound, why would people need to buy your can?

I'm not saying you don't personally pass the smell test (cue the Irish Spring commercial ); just that your explanation of what's going on with the N18's PCV system doesn't convince me.

But, hey, I think what I suggested above about checking for suction (which, if present, would probably be lighter that the old hose to the intake manifold had, given the larger volume of the crankcase) at the port that remains on the valve cover would be a really simple and fairly definitive test. Makes me wish my local dealership used MCSs for their service loaners.

 

I misunderstood you completely.

I had taken your words to imply that the drains (those that would drain oil caught by the baffling internal to the valve cover) I had referenced led directly to the combustion chamber. I am sure that you can understand my shock to that concept!

The new updated valve cover for the N14 it makes sense. The bulk of the condensation these engines will see will form at the peak height where plastic meets aluminum. Sparing a conversation of heat transfer and the formation of condensation inside the engine allow me to say that what they did was a logical solution to preventing an issue of freezing throttle bodies. The valve cover would be the peak source for condensation formation and the port out the rear of the valve cover would have been the perfect spot to drain water spilling it all over the throttle body. Since water will not run up hill, the intake ports are quite appropriate given the system. This would be why it is mentioned that this mod is to prevent the freezing.

In any case, its a nasty job to clean that stuff out both caked on the valves or in the intercooler system. Big reasons outside of maintaining long term intercooler efficeincy to get a catch can... I'll start with my personal favorite as it applies heavily in this business. Do you really want to clean that up? Being a guy who has had enough oil splashed in his face over the years I can easily say its worth it to not have to deal with that if nothing else! If I can work on my car and not wreak of chemicals and fluids, I am happy.

From a performance stand point, oil vapor has a lower flash point than gasoline. Mixing oil vapor into the combustion chamber decreases the thresh hold for knock/ability to keep timing up and on these 4 cylinder turbo engines timing is absolutely critical for optimal performance. On my personal car we were able to run an additional 12* of timing with a catch can installed netting a nice 26 whp. This however was on a 500 hp car so its a bit exaggerated to the norm but none the less relevant.

From there it trickles down to looks, personal pride, peace of mind, just liking to have stuff, and all the other reasons people buy things.

If nothing please excuse my misunderstanding. I am happy to find out both that these engines are NOT rolling bombs, nor did you think they were. Have a good weekend!

-Phil

 

So has anyone pre-ordered a BSH N18 OCC? I see vendors (DoS, in particular) that are taking orders now.

Somehow, I just can seem to pull the plug yet. I guess I'd like to actually see what I'm going to be getting for the $80 price increase () over the '07-'10 version...

 

i guess you're actually getting an OCC for the N18, which no one else has put out yet. i think it was mentioned in a previous post that the fittings/connectors are part of the reason why the price has gone up. bsh has also put a new (improved?) baffle in the OCC.
i've always held that i'd buy from the first company that comes out with one, so i'm gonna try to hold true to my words here.

 

Link to the pre-orders?
I know been a lot of talk when they'll be coming out. Any solid date? I need one.

 

maybe my eyes are going, but i don't see where it says "pre-order" in the link. in any case, here it is. i haven't seen it on wmw yet. i believe detroit tuned will be carrying them as well, but i'm not sure who else.
http://defendersofspeed.com/store/pr...?id_product=36

 

I was basing my pre-order comment on the language in this DoS advert (between the "noddiing smilies") --

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...7-17-11-a.html

I agree with you that the site itself doesn't specify as such...

 

I have the BSH preordered from DOS as of last week. ETA is the 25th

 

Just got a vendor announcement from BSH. They're shipping our first order of N18 OCC's to DoS. We'll be shipping our pre-orders late next week.


(R55, R56, R57, R58, R59 N18 OCC Pictured)

More pics at defendersofspeed.com.

-Clint

 

Nice.
This will be going in as my next mod. Scratch tinted windows

 

It appears there's a level of enthusiasm building to run out and buy this catch can. Has there been confirmation that the N18 even really even needs it and what benefits it brings?

Certainly it won't hurt anything (other than your wallet) to install it , and yes some mositure may be captured. However if carbon build up is the real concern, I've not read anything to say carbon build up wasn't already solved with the revisions implemneted in the N18 engine valve cover (versus the prior engine).

T

 

while carbon build up is a major concern for the MCSs, it's not the only one. with the N18, the excavated crankcase fumes are being dumped into your intake before the turbo. i'd say it'd be worth your time and money to get an OCC to clean up the excavated air before it gets dumped back into your turbo and i/c, and eventually, your engine. if there is another pcv valve somewhere internal to the engine, there's really nothing you can do about it, yet. but i don't see how any solutions to that issue, if it is in fact one, would affect your purchasing the N18 OCC to address the current issue. that's just my opinion.

 

I don't know of any evidence yet that this is necessary -- evidence as in people finding oil in their intercoolers on 2011 MCSs.
It may be that with the N18 MINI has resolved the issues regarding incomplete filtering out of crankcase fume "crud" (technical term) in its PCV system.
But going with their history of trying and failing to resolve the issue with multiple revisions of the N14 valve cover, it seems likely that the same issues remain on the N18.

That leaves two possibilities...
1) if there is a path for crankcase fumes to reach the ignition chamber contained within the valve cover and intake ports of the cylinder head, the severity of the 'oil in intercooler' issue is the same as with the N14 -- crankcase crud is being fed to the intercooler under boost conditions.
2) if the obvious external driver side hose is the only PCV path remaining, then the severity of the issue is much greater that it was before, with crankcase crud being fed to the intercooler at all times that the engine is running.

In either case, throwing a catch can on that path is probably a good idea.

 

As with what everyone else said ... has there ever been a vehicle made that didn't have any issues of some carbon build up? I don't see a CC hurting it in anyway by putting it on there. Might hurt our pocket more than anything. Call it a preventive measure i suppose.

 

if i have the tools to pull off the tube running from the valve cover to the intake, i'll check to see if there's any oil in there. if it's bone dry, then the OCC might not be necessary. but if it's covered with a film of sludge, as i suspect, i'm going to install an OCC.

 

How much for just the hose hardware(hard angles and adapters)? I bought a BSH can when I first got the '11 but the set up was for the N14 engines.

 

Clint, very much appreciate the visuals.

Doesn't seem like a very long length of hose. Is the kit based on using the OEM alarm switch tab on the cowl as the OCC mounting location?

 

 

Never mind...I see the answer in the DoS website description...

 

I would contact Sushil at BSH directly to see if he can hook you up.

I was thinking that too. I think that BSH may just have photographed a section of hose that will fit in the photos. The hose that comes with the kit will likely be longer.

 

Automan21,

Like the N14 R56 Competition Catch Can Kit, we do not split up the kit to sell parts individually, we do offer options to help meet each customers modifications needs. This would be similar to when you ordered your MINI, you can choose an upgraded sound system, however you can not opt-out of doors. I would like you and all to know that the Catch Can provided in the N14 and N18 kits come with redesigned internal baffling to increase its efficiency. Hope this helps, and thank you for your inquiry.

Gil-galad,

The pictures only include a 1ft section of hose although all kits will have 4ft of hose to help you route to your chosen mounting location. The kit is based on using the OEM alarm switch tab on the cowl as the OCC mounting location, like the N14 kit. Of course we know there to be difficulties with mounting to this location for everyone, hence why we have an add on option that DoS can provide in the even you need to mount the Can elsewhere in the engine bay.

 

Just did an oil change on my 2011, at 6200 miles. Pulled the hot side hose off the intercooler, and it was dry - so far.