Im an avid MT driver, but i can't get the timing between 1-2 at WOT
on my MCS. i know i'll get the hang of it sooner or later as i practice,
but i want it sooner. im also wondering if this has anything
to do with the ECU's 'stumble' issue.

Here is what i am doing:
1. 1st gear WOT to 6500rpm, begin smooth gas roll-off, foot
complete off gas by 6900rpm, while clutch in.
(no jolts or abrupt nose dive here)
2. wait a brief moment, shift to 2nd gate
3. I wait a tad more while bringing back clutch pedal just a tad
to catch the flywheel then mash gas. I think im in 4200+RPM
range when engaged. I get a jolt as if i was powershifting,
its not smooth.

it this from the stumbling fuel management issue?
can you get a smooth wot run engagement in 2nd?

2-3, 3-4, 4-5, is smooth and quick.

thanks.

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03MCS IndiBlue/Blk

 

I do not do the roll off at the end of 1st gear. I speed shift from 1st to 2nd with the clutch in and out very quickly. Of course this is done with ASC (or DSC) off and the wheels spin somewhat.

 

orbhot- no problems with the tranny doing this?

 

I find that the clutch pedal can be 'feathered' enough during WOT shifts (not to be confused with speed shifting) as to not have the lurching effect that you would get by speed shifting. I dont perform any 'rolling back' of the throttle, I basically let go entirely at the same time I push the clutch in, my hand which was just previously putting a backwards pull in the shifter 'paddles' the shifter into 2nd (flick from the wrist instead of pulling with your entire arm), the syncros will let the gate into 2nd when they are ready. Once there, bring the revs up again and quickly ease out the clutch. The engine revs hold for a good amount of time between shifts, but if you wait too long the revs will have fallen below what the clutch will be spinning, and if you release the clutch now, you have the 'nose dive' and harsh shift.

It's impossible to have a completely power-gap free shift, but you can make very smooth upshifts even under WOT. It takes practice. I find myself trying to make 'imperceptible' shifts during normal driving just for the fun of it. Rev-matching downshifts, heel-and-toe in corners, etc. The MINI seems by nature to be very easy to drive smoothly. I reward my smooth driving practice with power shifting and making noise every now and then.

 

I shift in a similar manner and have had no problems thus far. Plus it scares the honda kids when you do it

 

In an un-modified mcs going up to 6900 rpm is a waste of time, plus your already 400 rpm over red-line. I'd suggest that you should try shifting from 1st. to 2nd. at between 6 & 6200 rpm. Should be a quick shift as soon as the high rpm limit is reached. Don't have to "Power Shift" it but, must be a very quick shift. Lift off the gas fast and at the same time push in the clutch while pulling shift lever from 1st. to 2nd., then, at the same time back to WOT while releasing clutch. Whole operation shouldn't take more than one second. When you get better at it you'll be doing it in closer to 1/2 second. Shifts from 2nd. to 3rd. and 3rd to 4th. etc. can be done easier at 6500 rpm because acceleration rate not quite as fast as when your at WOT in 1st. gear.

 

Speed in.....shifing/clutch release/throttle response..... are common elements in all the replies :smile:

Now add.... a "short shifter' to the mix... and you'll be exactly where you want to be :smile:

Peace,
D

_________________
I own a 2002 MCS w/ alot of stuff on it.

 

you love the short shifter so much D, you make me be so anxious to get mine...

 

>>I shift in a similar manner and have had no problems thus far. Plus it scares the honda kids when you do it

 

guys, thanks for the replies, looks like the trick is maybe not to
roll off the gas in 1st too much and just let the rev build up a
tad while free wheeling flywheel.

>bring the revs up again and quickly ease out the clutch.

greatbear- so you are momentarily slipping the clutch into 2nd?
i find myself doing that, but since the pitch drops while slipping
my rpm was too high vs the correct engagement point; therefore
waiting a tad longer for the spindown. or is the mini suppose


to be slipped a tad while trying to get a smooth
engagement into 2nd during wot? i would rather not slip the
clutch.

WOT: wide open throttle (full gas pedal to the floor)

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03MCS IndiBlue/Blk

 

I slip it, but only for a fraction of a second and not 'under power'. In other words, I am not sidestepping the clutch, nor am I making it slip under WOT (wide open throttle). It's just enough to not 'shock' the drivetrain. In fast shifting, the engine speed stays high when the throttle is released, and it ends up being faster than what the next gear is going to need. The 'slip' is what I do to ease the coasting engine down to the gear speed. By the time the engine has matched the clutch speed again, I am giving the gas back to WOT and accelerating again. Wait too much for the gas, and you 'nose dive' Hit the gas too soon and you end up slipping the clutch under power. Do this procedure too fast and you are 'power shifting'. Too slow and you are making herky-jerky motions. It seems to take just around a second. It's all about timing and technique.

It's MUCH harder to explain it than to do it, at least for me.

 

I'm 6'3 but my wife is 5'8. Could she be a short shifter?

D it was nice to see your sweet ride. Tell me more about the short shifter option.
I didn't notice on the Reservoir Dog Run, Do you also have the Whalen?

 

greatbear- thanks, i think i was doing it your way then before trying to wait for the spindown into 2nd. i know what you mean, it's a fraction of a second where you
'catch' the flywheel under slight load. there is that minimal slip where the pitch
of the motor drops a tad just enough to catch the correct rpm in 2nd.
the ECU seems to be able to correct the fuel and eliminate the stumble feeling
i was getting in 2nd this way; ive yet to smell the clutch on this car.

when i waited for 2nd gear rpm on the flywheel spindown, it gave me the
similar stumble as when i engage 1st gear from about 2500rpm. this is why
i was scratching my head...

i wanna try to stay away from powershifting or chirping 2nd gear unless necessary.

 

Oh, sometimes it IS necessary!

 

>>>>
>>Oh, sometimes it IS necessary!

 

To shift smoothly, I usually try to lift off the gas right before putting the clutch in. This gives the engine a "head start" on slowing down so the revs match better when letting clutch out in 2nd. later shifts don't seem to be so hard to shift smoothly. If I lift and put in clutch at same time, with the ECU and heavy flywheel, the shift is impossible to get smooth without slipping the clutch in a quick shift.

 

>>To shift smoothly, I usually try to lift off the gas right before putting the clutch in. This gives the engine a "head start" on slowing down so the revs match better when letting clutch out in 2nd. later shifts don't seem to be so hard to shift smoothly. If I lift and put in clutch at same time, with the ECU and heavy flywheel, the shift is impossible to get smooth without slipping the clutch in a quick shift.


yah, this is very true. on my MCS, i have to roll off the gas or the flywheel will
continue to spin up (which is not necessarly a bad thing if you plan to powershift).
but i rarely powershift so roll off the gas... and practiced tonight doing 50%-
100% throttle positions and i got it down to about 7 out of 10 times smooth.

i need to practice more, but i am getting the hang of it very quickly...plus
it's 20F outside and that means good power... didn't mean to, but out drag
raced a RSX-S from a toll booth. hahaha.

 

No offense - really - but it's hard to believe you're an avid manual driver!

 

greatgro- no offense taken. but what puzzles me is your
comment while you're now in 6th gear. all this time you've been
driving the MSC incorrectly? im still practicing the MCS.
i roll off the gas pedal which is quite different. and it's not like im
taking my dandy time roll off the gas either. its maybe
.7-.8sec at most WHILE progressively clutch in.

if you look at pro-driver's TPS readings during acceleration,
the hypotenuse is rounded, not straight most of the time.

and for partial throttle acceleration under 3000rpm's, you will
actually need to shift faster and NOT rolloff the gas to get a
smooth shift because there is less momentum on the flywheel,
thus less time to shift.

here's wat im doing now and its working:

1. 1st gear WOT to 6000rpm, begin smooth gas roll-off, foot
complete off gas by 6500rpm (flywheel builds momentum to 6700),
while clutch in.
2. wait a brief moment, shift to 2nd gate
3. Bringing back clutch pedal just a tad
to catch the flywheel while progressively working the gas.

if i get the timing right, it is very smooth. this is wat im
after.

next up is getting the timing on a uphill.




_________________




03MCS IndiBlue/Blk

 

>>orbhot- no problems with the tranny doing this?

Not yet, and none expected - it is a Getrag after all.

 

orbhot- thanks.