I need your sincere opinion, please!

With the delivery of my MCS in Jan, I've been searching for different performance upgrades. The more I read about different posts, the more confused I am. :smile:

 

Davecsumini,

I know how you feel. I have a MCS and did not know what to do either. I got on the list for the JCW kit and asked if I could buy it without the new head and was told no. Then Dinan came out with their anouncement and runs a lot less money. I believe the kit will be the same without the head and it claims 198 HP. Money is not realy the object but I don't want to throw any away either. My name came to the top of the JCW kit list and got a call saying it in. I told them to give it to someone else and and going with Dinan.

No one can make the decisions people ask about except the person asking but it helps to have other peoples ideas and thoughts. So now you have mine. :smile:

WELCOME ABOARD.

Earl

 

>>I need your sincere opinion, please!
>>
>>With the delivery of my MCS in Jan, I've been searching for different performance upgrades. The more I read about different posts, the more confused I am. :smile:

Check out this post I put up yesterday:

Perfomance Modifications

I've got an MCS coming in about 8 months, and I'm planning on having the JCW kit installed before I pick up the vehicle. By the time mine is available, there should be some serious reviews and comparative shoot-outs between the Dinan and the Works kit. I'm counting on that, since the Dinan kit comes w/ a warranty, and it's about 3k cheaper. If it truly stands up to a Works MINI, then the choice might not be too difficult. At this point, everything I've read puts the JCW performance ahead of just about every other choice. It's not the cheapest and it's not stupid fast but it IS fast, and the reveiws talk about how much smoother it is to drive than other after market speed mods. In other words, it's the most daily driver friendly, something I'm very interested in.

 

ahhh...confusion due to a whole rainbow of mod choices. it may seem like a big negative, but i think it is one of the advantages of owning a great car. although there are tons of choices for hondas, acuras, toyotas, etc., i don't think they have the option of "factory" performance packages like we do, ie. jcw or dinan next year.

i very recently jumped into the money pit and got the jcw along with header, intake and wires all at once. it was quite expensive, especially compared to the aftermarket route, but it was actually a bit less than expected as i was able to work out a pretty good deal. all i can say is...i am very pleased with my new mcs. it's basically a new car to me, and quite obvious from the first acceleration out of the dealer's lot. it's not the additional power, as it isn't the most powerful mini; it's more like the driving experience that is enhanced. i haven't found or heard of any jcw owners who are displeased with their new car. although this is a very select few of the total number of mini owners. but then again, to me, that is part of the appeal of the jcw. it is/will be a fairly unique car.

i did briefly consider the dinan upgrade packages, as the news of its impending arrival actually reached my eyes the week of the jcw install. but figuring price along with labor and perhaps shipping, the difference was, i felt, not all that significant. basically, i felt like i was paying extra for the exclusivity of the jcw. so far, in hawaii i believe there are about 6 of us, out of roughly 500+ owners.

the main advantage of the dinan is its various upgrade packages that offer a more complete mini. perhaps a little longer warranty. a bit less costlly. and of course, a name that is trusted in the industry.

aftermarket...you're gonna have to pick and choose your own packages. more choices, which can be good or bad. but your choices have to be checked for their compatibility with each other. some mods perform better with certain others. more checking and thinking, i think is involved. vs. jcw or dinan, where the packages are pretty much set and almost guaranteed to work well together.

i truly believe the jcw kit is much more than the sum of its parts, as is probably the dinan kit. it is the whole package or final package that will ultimately determine your mini's performance character.

congrats on your mini!
good luck!
and enjoy!

 

If $ was not an issue I'd get an M5 :smile:

 

>>I need your sincere opinion, please!
>>
>>With the delivery of my MCS in Jan, I've been searching for different performance upgrades. The more I read about different posts, the more confused I am. :smile:

Check out this post I put up yesterday:

Perfomance Modifications

I've got an MCS coming in about 8 months, and I'm planning on having the JCW kit installed before I pick up the vehicle. By the time mine is available, there should be some serious reviews and comparative shoot-outs between the Dinan and the Works kit. I'm counting on that, since the Dinan kit comes w/ a warranty, and it's about 3k cheaper. If it truly stands up to a Works MINI, then the choice might not be too difficult. At this point, everything I've read puts the JCW performance ahead of just about every other choice. It's not the cheapest and it's not stupid fast but it IS fast, and the reveiws talk about how much smoother it is to drive than other after market speed mods. In other words, it's the most daily driver friendly, something I'm very interested in.

 

BBR Stage 4 conversion, 275bhp at a whopping 15000 pounds sterling. I really couldn't think of a better way to blow mass amounts of cash on my car (maybe after law school, ey? ).

 

fms,

I agree with you 100%. that is why I had my name on the list for the JCW kit. That being said I haven't seen any reports on the Dinan yet and don't expect to for a while. The Dinan kit is just a couple of HP less than the JCW Kit and comparing $ to HP I believe Dinan will win. Also I will be able to do a real job on the head if I decide to.

I really think both JCW and Dinan will be GREAT so pick the emblem you like.

Earl

 

As some have said, the JCW kit is quite probably more than the sum of its parts. That being said, once mine arrives, I'm considering a Pilo intake and Milltek header, provided my dealership gives me the go-ahead. It would be utterly brainless to spend all the money on a Works kit and then void the warranty w/ a couple of other mods. Same w/ the Dinan. The other things I'm thinking about are bigger brakes and an adjustable rear sway bar, neither of which would mess w/ the engine, but I'll drive the new MINI w/ the mod kit of choice around for a while to see if I think the other add-ons are really necessary. I realize we're starting to talk about a ridiculously expensive MINI, but I have to laugh when folks say " For that money you could have a preowned M3 (or the like)." A very expensive MINI is STILL a MINI!!

 

Thank you all for your inputs! :smile:

To avoid all the confusions of mass aftermarket products, I'm thinking probably JCW or Dinan. Dinan might be less expansive, but JCW is more exclusive and currently available. So I'll be calling my MINI MA to reserve a JCW. Perhaps I'll add an Dinan inatke to the JCW kit later. :smile:

 

Hi...I am getting my new MCS blk/blk/blk next week with the JCW kit installed...I looked at the boards and all of th options, and having gone down th heavily modded road before, felt the warranty was important...also, come resale time, I think the JCW will be well received...I imagin th only other mod I am going to do is a sway bar...just my .02 and from the experience of modding lots of high end car--enjoy the Mini and just make sure you are having fun!

 

>>Hi...I am getting my new MCS blk/blk/blk next week with the JCW kit installed...I looked at the boards and all of th options, and having gone down th heavily modded road before, felt the warranty was important...also, come resale time, I think the JCW will be well received...I imagin th only other mod I am going to do is a sway bar...just my .02 and from the experience of modding lots of high end car--enjoy the Mini and just make sure you are having fun!

 

moved from MINI Talk to Performance Mods

 

>>>>Hi...I am getting my new MCS blk/blk/blk next week with the JCW kit installed...I looked at the boards and all of th options, and having gone down th heavily modded road before, felt the warranty was important...also, come resale time, I think the JCW will be well received...I imagin th only other mod I am going to do is a sway bar...just my .02 and from the experience of modding lots of high end car--enjoy the Mini and just make sure you are having fun!

I aked my service manager about a header and the warranty, and she wasn't overly sure about it. Sway bar and intake, no problem, but if there is some problem w/ too much heat damage due to a header, then all bets are off on that one. It's probable that I won't go w/ one, based on her recommendation.
Rats. I was looking forward to trying that! Looks like I'll have to wait until the warranty period is up. I just don't want to take chances w/ such expensive
equipment.

 

If $$ is not an issue, then you must ask yourself, is brand an issue? It's kind of like buying Nike shoes just to have that cool swoosh mark on the side...you don't need it but you're going to pay tons extra just to get it. Same thing with the JCW and Dinan. Both make good power, but you're buying a brand. In aftermarket parts, get whatever suits your needs and don't care about paying extra thousands of dollars to get a brand. If branding is an issue, then by all means, spend the $$ and get the JCW and flaunt those badges. No harm in that, right?

 

One negative for me about the JCW kit is that some dealer mechanic removes the head. I'm not all that comfortable about dealer mechanical work. It's kind of like cosmetic surgery. The results could be fabulous, but what if they mess it up. (I guess that's where the warranty comes in.) One thing I like about the JCW kit is that they don't touch the airbox. I talked to the BMW development engineer assigned to the project in Geneva. He said that the airbox didn't add anything HP-wise in their testing. I'm sure they also had noise considerations to factor in as well.

The Dinan only messes with externals, which gets the nod in my book.

I am partial to the Turner mods: pulley, shark injector and plugs. That seems to be a well-rounded set of mods to me.

 

Difficult question.

If your goal is the most day to day driving performance and fun for the buck ... then perhaps the JCW Package might not be right for you. I know that I went back and forth between a whole array of aftermarket tuning upgrades and the Works Package, (I even had an appointment booked with Randy from Webb Motorsports to do the pulley, ECU, exchaust, and throttle body ... all of which was significantly less expensive than the Works Package), but I ultimately decided to go with Works Package, even though it was extra money and from a simple performance point of view, the cost-benefit-analysis clearly favored the after market tuning upgrades.

Why?

Several reasons:

Here in California some or all of the after market tuning upgrades are not C.A.R.B. approved. You can actually be given a "fix-it" ticket to remove the "offending add-ons." (Although it may seem unlikely to happen, several individuals have already complained about being cited and then being required to remove items or restore their cars to factory specs.) However, that may not apply to you. However, here in California the JCW kit is C.A.R.B. approved.

It is just a guess, but I think in the long-run a JCW car will tend hold its value (or at least be easier to sell) than a MCS that has been heavily modified with an assortment of after-market tuning upgrades, some or all of which may match and do a great job, or mismatch and do a so-so job. (However, I don't necessarily mean to imply that you will get back all of the extra money you paid for the JCW kit when you sell the car ... it is too early to tell and my hunch is that you won't.) Also, another thing to consider is that if your car is heavily modified with after-market tuning upgrades and you do sell the car during the warranty period, it would seem that you would have to disclose to the buyer (in writing) that in all likelihood there may be some significant issues with respect to the balance of the factory warranty, or at least tell the buyer to be prepared to assume the risk of whatever dealer service/warranties hassles may occur. (I went through it 2 years ago with our Cooper and the cracked windshield fiasco!)

Then, there is the warranty issue itself. The JCW kit preserves your warranty ... but at a significant cost! (I have seen whole MCS engines for sale ... from wrecked cars ... in the $3,500.00 range ... you can do a whole lot of after-market tuning for around $2,500 - $3,000 and also have a spare engine for around the price of the JCW kit!) Also, the Dinan kit will out next year and offer similar performance (with a warranty) for less money than the JCW kit. However, since I am not mechanically inclined, nor do I want to go through the hassle of fighting the dealer on warranty issues, (or to store a spare engine in my garage), the warranty is a bit more meaningful for me. And ... the JCW kit is (at least theoretically) available now.

However, I guess the primary reason I chose the JCW kit is that I plan to keep my car, and the name/heritage/status/exclusivity associated with John Cooper Works means that I will have a limited edition car with plenty of history behind it. (Not necessarily a better or faster car than what can be had from the after-market tuners.) So ... yes ... that little badge is quite expensive! It is just the price of admission.

All in all, my car is plenty fast with the kit, (and even quicker now that I have added the ALTA intake). No matter which way you go, once you start on the performance modification road, it is addictive ... you will soon start thinking about that next performance enhancement .... whether it be new wheels and tires ... and/or big brakes ... and/or suspension tuning ... and/or ... and/or ...

Either way, once you write the check, you won't regret it ... it's just getting to the point of writing that check!

Good luck.

ftbt

02 Works Cooper S Sn. 1165, DS/W + Premium + Sport + Alta intake + 17" Team Dynamics Pro Race 1's & 215/45/17 Kumho Ecsta MX's

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ftbt, thank you for sharing your experience!

Whenever I feel that I'm set on JCW, I find out something that persuade me otherwise. I've been going back and forth on this issue.

Since I'm not in CA, I don't have an issue with CARB. What really makes my decision difficult is the "friendly" dealership, where I'll be servicing my car. They do offer installation for some aftermarket products (i.e. intake, exhaust, and even pulley). As far as warranty issue is concerned, they are very fair. Aside from the defective aftermarket parts, factory warranty will be covered. How great is that!! On the other hand, it just makes my decision more difficult!



_________________
04 IB/W JCW MCS

 

If money was no object, huh?

Dilemma, because I like doing all my performance mods myself.

I like the JCW package not only because of the performance, but the 'cachet' the brand carries. I'd probably fork over the cash for it including the 1000 dollar core charge for the head and 'charger and do it all myself, with perhaps a 17% pulley added to the JCW supercharger, plus a Milltek header and maybe a cam.

Dunno what else I would add, but it would not stay stagnant.

 

I had the JCW Kit installed 6 weeks after I got my MCS. I have absolutly no regrets.

I Autocrossed my JCW and cannot imagine more HP without adding a LSD. The car easily breaks the one tire loose in turns at any speed.

I love the transformation the JCW kit made to my MCS. I have a highly tuned RX-7 and its a PITA to daily drive due to high HP and lots of noise.

I just went to a Florida Mini meet and I was one of 2 JCW's there out of 30+ cars. The other was a 2002. So technically I was the only '03 JCW>

 

If you lived in Hawaii especially ( or not)... make sure your closest/prefered Mini dealer is a Dinan dealer, because if not! they wont cover your waranty! And I'd rather go with cheaper after market, rather than dinan. I would defenitely choose JCW if money is not the Issue... unless your mini dealer is an Official Dinan dealer...


daniel-

 

>>If you lived in Hawaii especially ( or not)... make sure your closest/prefered Mini dealer is a Dinan dealer, because if not! they wont cover your waranty! And I'd rather go with cheaper after market, rather than dinan. I would defenitely choose JCW if money is not the Issue... unless your mini dealer is an Official Dinan dealer...

In Hawaii there is one MINI dealer with adjacent BMW dealer which is a DINAN approved dealer.
So no problem with warranty coverage except if you live on an outer island.

If I had to choose between the two I'd pick DINAN for the choice of stage kits for the MCS, for the additional staged add on mods to come in March 2004 and because supply of the upgrades should be better than JCW kits which are being rationed out one at a time. So far we have 6 JCW kits installed.
http://dinancars.com/newsletter/news...6-10-2003.html

 

in that case... I choose dinan also....
thanks Minihune for the info...


daniel-

 

I've already begun to plant the Dinan upgrade package idea for Wanda, my MCS, in hubby's mind. His main concern: "What? So you can get MORE speeding tickets?"

My dealership, Long Beach MINI/BMW, has Dinan products in its parts department. Does that definitely mean they're a Dinan dealer? TIA...



Clo/Wanda

 

>>I've already begun to plant the Dinan upgrade package idea for Wanda, my MCS, in hubby's mind. His main concern: "What? So you can get MORE speeding tickets?"

What speeding tickets? You were going downhill, just fighting gravity and loosing!
Or- I didn't know there was a speed "limit"!
Plus Wanda is not red so you're not supposed to get tickets.
And finally, it was "Wanda's" fault. Period. She is simply too fast.
Oops, delete that last one until "after the DINAN stage 2 upgrade" then it's good to go.
P.S. Don't let any of your family read these.

>>My dealership, Long Beach MINI/BMW, has Dinan products in its parts department. Does that definitely mean they're a Dinan dealer? TIA...
Absolutely, since DINAN only allows certain dealers to do business with them. You might ask if you were a BMW Car Club member would you get a discount of 10-15% off the DINAN upgrades. If so then it might be worth the $33 per year membership for the discount off $ thousands.

You need to watch the X-men movies more and copy that stealth technology and turn it on to avoid tickets.
Let me know when you figure it out.