Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R56) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain JCW baseline dyno + NSW/XXX/hardcore under bonnet porn!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 08:35 AM
  #1  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
JCW baseline dyno + NSW/XXX/hardcore under bonnet ****!

Here's the baseline dyno of our '09 JCW R55 before mods...



It's showing a peak wheel HP of 197.8 @ 5594 RPMs. This is a 3rd gear pull, overboost on with a stock air filter. We also had a "performance" foam drop-in filter and decided to experiment with that while we were there. So we did different combinations of pulls in either 3rd or 4th gear, with overboost on or off with/without the drop-in filter...and this is the best peak HP of the day. Heat soak really isn't an issue in November in New England, but it's worth noting that this was also the last run of the night...

The following mods were then done:
  • M7 MGS-R custom painted/airbrushed Cold Air Intake
  • M7 Aerogel Turbo Heat Shield
  • M7 Oil Catch Can
  • M7 Lower/Hot Side Charge Pipe
  • NM Engineering Upper/Cold Side Charge Pipe
  • Riss Racing catless/ceramic coated downpipe
  • Riss Racing O2 simulator
  • Helix Front Mount Intercooler
Here's what it all looks like installed...





There's a couple of things missing right now...
  • Jan/RMW tune!
  • M7 Ram-2 carbon fiber hood scoop
  • M7 Strut Tower Brace
...critical finishing touches no doubt, but we were far enough along and couldn't wait posting any longer!

We have a "warts and all" philosophy of keeping it real with our vendors and customers, so a couple of notes. This was not a bolt-on affair and some parts definitely needed massaging to get them to play nice with others. Since we've been manufacturing our own custom motorcycle parts for years, we don't expect other manufacturers to tailor their parts to fit perfectly with anything other than their own parts or stock. Case in point; the M7 Aerogel Turbo Heat Shield did not fit with the Riss Racing catless downpipe. Why? The O2 sensor is clocked in a different position which interferes with the M7 piece. Solution? Notch and clearance the heat shield; problem solved.

Speaking of Riss Racing, we're getting the same P2270 CEL as some other people are, and we're working with them and waiting patiently to get it all worked out with the O2 sim. For now if the yellow glowing CEL gets too agitating to look at, we just clear it with the Scangauge 2, which we're using to monitor boost, AFR, H20 temp and IAT...

Also, as b!tchin' as the RR sequential BOV sounded, it wasn't going to work. It didn't fit well with the M7 AGS-R CAI, and given the time we had in that piece painting it, etc., there was no way that was coming out. The BOV itself sat very close to the edge of the intake, and the boost tap that bolted on top of the factory intake manifold hit the bottom of the M7 CAI, which pushed it up and clocked it in a position which caused fitment issues with the rest of the intake plumbing. The solution here was removing the RR BOV/hardpipe and installing a NM Engineering one in it's place. We used the NM hot + cold side charge pipes on another MINI project and are real happy with 'em; no rubbing, no nonsense.

The Helix FMIC install was very straightforward and we're really looking forward to tracking the car and see the positive effects on keeping the IAT lower and reducing heat soak when it gets toasty.

The verdict? Compared to when it was stock it flat out rips. We're gonna try to do a untuned dyno here shortly before we get Jan's tune installed, but we're pretty sure the butt dynos here are pretty accurate. The AFR @ WOT is showing that there's plenty left on the table, and we should get a nice chunk of additional power out of a tune and still keep it safe.

Another note on the Riss Racing ceramic coated/catless downpipe. When combined with the factory JCW catback exhaust it is PERFECT. No drone, sweet idle, and downright scary @ WOT. We're pretty sure a catback would make it rather difficult to tolerate as a DD, it's just short of being too much to warrant a change at this point...

What's next? Suspension and wheels...but that's for another thread!

Motor On!

MBW M/S
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 08:40 AM
  #2  
JamesHunt's Avatar
JamesHunt
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Likes: 1
From: Sunshine State
with the riss downpipe and depending on altitude you should see around 215 whp and 220 wtq untuned.tuned add 20+whp and 30+ wtq to those numbers plus for every .5 inch increase in exhaust size up to 3.5 the car will pick up 10whp and 10wtq.

If you think the stock jcw exhaust sounds good with the catless dp wait until you hear a powerhouse system .
 

Last edited by JamesHunt; Mar 21, 2010 at 08:51 AM.
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 08:42 AM
  #3  
BlimeyCabrio's Avatar
BlimeyCabrio
6th Gear
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,773
Likes: 9
From: Holly Springs, NC
Looooooove your intake.
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 08:56 AM
  #4  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by JamesHunt
with the riss downpipe and depending on altitude you should see around 215 whp and 220 wtq untuned.tuned add 20+whp and 30+ wtq to those numbers.

If you think the stock jcw exhaust sounds good with the catless dp wait until you hear a powerhouse system .
Hmmm...we're the adventurous types...do ya have a link?

We're not going to shoot ourselves in the dyno-foot with an estimate, but it won't possibly be disappointing with the way it's running right now, untuned!

Originally Posted by BlimeyCabrio
Looooooove your intake.
Thanks! Jay put an arseload of time and work into it, being the superperfectionist he is. M7 was talking to us about adding that picture to their site, which would be pretty uber cool...

That also brings up a good point that I forgot to mention about the M7 Aerogel Turbo Heatshield. Forget about your hood scoop getting too hot to touch, you can put your hand flat on the inside of the intake right above the heatshield after thrashing it and it's barely warm. It works THAT well...
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 09:04 AM
  #5  
JamesHunt's Avatar
JamesHunt
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Likes: 1
From: Sunshine State
Those numbers are a before and after test on a dynojet using stock tune vs rmw tune and stock exhaust vs riss,ddm , custom Meisterschaft and Powerhouse systems .

Powerhouse is in the final prototype stage at the moment .
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 09:51 AM
  #6  
old81's Avatar
old81
M6
iTrader: (1)
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,440
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, Colorado
Very nice, I would like to see your next set of dyno numbers.

A tasteful set of mods, what is your plan for suspension & wheels? You planning pretty&slammed or track?

Don
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 10:20 AM
  #7  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by old81
Very nice, I would like to see your next set of dyno numbers.

A tasteful set of mods, what is your plan for suspension & wheels? You planning pretty&slammed or track?

Don
Thanks Don! Since we do track the car and it's technically still a daily driver, finding that balance, especially considering the less than completely stellar state of our New England roads, is particularly challenging...

So with that being said we're trying to strike a balance while keeping it look cool too of course... For wheels we have some Konig Maxxim Maze 18s on the way that are black with a red stripe. For the life of me I can't remember what tires we have sitting in the shop to go on 'em. I do know that these wheels are about 7 or 8 pounds lighter than the stockers, so it will be a nice reduction in rotating weight. Eventually we'll throw some track wheels + tires on there; maybe the Konig Feathers or Heliums???

We went back and forth, back and forth, and, guess what, back and forth on coilovers. Our compromise (which may be interim in nature depending if the amount of track time increases) is NM Engineering RSa lowering springs with Koni FSDs and NM's 22mm adjustable rear sway bar. That should give us about 1+ inches lower in the front, with 1 inch in the rear. Since we have the standard, as opposed to Sport/JCW upgraded suspension on it now, it should make a substantial improvement...

We'll see, we're all about experimenting and seeing what works..and doesn't!
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 10:27 AM
  #8  
JamesHunt's Avatar
JamesHunt
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Likes: 1
From: Sunshine State
dont do the fsd with lowering springs,pair the springs with koni yellows.
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 10:47 AM
  #9  
J_'09s's Avatar
J_'09s
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
Likes: 1
From: Bama
Originally Posted by JamesHunt
dont do the fsd with lowering springs,pair the springs with koni yellows.
I second that. I just installed the nm springs with koni yellows and its great. I too was on the fence about the yellows or the fsd's, but went to the yellows out of fear that the springs were going to wear out the fsds. PLUS the fsds seemed more like a comfort driven product.

I hear you on the horrible road conditions. These spanish roads are horrible! I feel like i'm on the slalom as i dodge potholes and man hole covers.

I installed the nm 22mm rear sway(both middle notch) and i can throttle the car around round abouts. Its great fun. No understeer to speak of. I turn the wheel more, the car turns more until the runflats reach their limit of adhesion.
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 11:59 AM
  #10  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by JamesHunt
dont do the fsd with lowering springs,pair the springs with koni yellows.
Originally Posted by J_'09s
I second that. I just installed the nm springs with koni yellows and its great. I too was on the fence about the yellows or the fsd's, but went to the yellows out of fear that the springs were going to wear out the fsds. PLUS the fsds seemed more like a comfort driven product.

I hear you on the horrible road conditions. These spanish roads are horrible! I feel like i'm on the slalom as i dodge potholes and man hole covers.

I installed the nm 22mm rear sway(both middle notch) and i can throttle the car around round abouts. Its great fun. No understeer to speak of. I turn the wheel more, the car turns more until the runflats reach their limit of adhesion.
Hmmm...reading up on it here on an R55/Clubbie that combo seemed like the way to go...maybe it's different for the R56/hardtops yeah? IIRC talking to the NM folks that's what they recommended for the R55 too.

As far as the tires go they're the Hankook Ventus RS2s, 215/35/18...should be plenty sticky!
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 07:16 PM
  #11  
etalj's Avatar
etalj
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by MBW Motorsports
Here's the baseline dyno of our '09 JCW R55 before mods...



It's showing a peak wheel HP of 197.8 @ 5594 RPMs. This is a 3rd gear pull, overboost on with a stock air filter. We also had a "performance" foam drop-in filter and decided to experiment with that while we were there. So we did different combinations of pulls in either 3rd or 4th gear, with overboost on or off with/without the drop-in filter...and this is the best peak HP of the day. Heat soak really isn't an issue in November in New England, but it's worth noting that this was also the last run of the night...

The following mods were then done:
  • M7 MGS-R custom painted/airbrushed Cold Air Intake
  • M7 Aerogel Turbo Heat Shield
  • M7 Oil Catch Can
  • M7 Lower/Hot Side Charge Pipe
  • NM Engineering Upper/Cold Side Charge Pipe
  • Riss Racing catless/ceramic coated downpipe
  • Riss Racing O2 simulator
  • Helix Front Mount Intercooler
Here's what it all looks like installed...





There's a couple of things missing right now...
  • Jan/RMW tune!
  • M7 Ram-2 carbon fiber hood scoop
  • M7 Strut Tower Brace
...critical finishing touches no doubt, but we were far enough along and couldn't wait posting any longer!

We have a "warts and all" philosophy of keeping it real with our vendors and customers, so a couple of notes. This was not a bolt-on affair and some parts definitely needed massaging to get them to play nice with others. Since we've been manufacturing our own custom motorcycle parts for years, we don't expect other manufacturers to tailor their parts to fit perfectly with anything other than their own parts or stock. Case in point; the M7 Aerogel Turbo Heat Shield did not fit with the Riss Racing catless downpipe. Why? The O2 sensor is clocked in a different position which interferes with the M7 piece. Solution? Notch and clearance the heat shield; problem solved.

Speaking of Riss Racing, we're getting the same P2270 CEL as some other people are, and we're working with them and waiting patiently to get it all worked out with the O2 sim. For now if the yellow glowing CEL gets too agitating to look at, we just clear it with the Scangauge 2, which we're using to monitor boost, AFR, H20 temp and IAT...

Also, as b!tchin' as the RR sequential BOV sounded, it wasn't going to work. It didn't fit well with the M7 AGS-R CAI, and given the time we had in that piece painting it, etc., there was no way that was coming out. The BOV itself sat very close to the edge of the intake, and the boost tap that bolted on top of the factory intake manifold hit the bottom of the M7 CAI, which pushed it up and clocked it in a position which caused fitment issues with the rest of the intake plumbing. The solution here was removing the RR BOV/hardpipe and installing a NM Engineering one in it's place. We used the NM hot + cold side charge pipes on another MINI project and are real happy with 'em; no rubbing, no nonsense.

The Helix FMIC install was very straightforward and we're really looking forward to tracking the car and see the positive effects on keeping the IAT lower and reducing heat soak when it gets toasty.

The verdict? Compared to when it was stock it flat out rips. We're gonna try to do a untuned dyno here shortly before we get Jan's tune installed, but we're pretty sure the butt dynos here are pretty accurate. The AFR @ WOT is showing that there's plenty left on the table, and we should get a nice chunk of additional power out of a tune and still keep it safe.

Another note on the Riss Racing ceramic coated/catless downpipe. When combined with the factory JCW catback exhaust it is PERFECT. No drone, sweet idle, and downright scary @ WOT. We're pretty sure a catback would make it rather difficult to tolerate as a DD, it's just short of being too much to warrant a change at this point...

What's next? Suspension and wheels...but that's for another thread!

Motor On!

MBW M/S
I'm begging you, please record the sound of the exhaust. Drive by, revving at standstill, and inside the car.

Thanks, and very nice work btw..
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 07:32 PM
  #12  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by etalj
I'm begging you, please record the sound of the exhaust. Drive by, revving at standstill, and inside the car.

Thanks, and very nice work btw..
Not a bad idea for the media section of our website...and we did just get one of those Go-Pro cameras. Hmmm...

...and thanks for the compliment too!
 
Reply
Old Mar 21, 2010 | 07:55 PM
  #13  
etalj's Avatar
etalj
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by MBW Motorsports
Not a bad idea for the media section of our website...and we did just get one of those Go-Pro cameras. Hmmm...

...and thanks for the compliment too!
hehe you're welcome.

I'm dying to hear what a Riss DP + jcw catback would sound like
 
Reply
Old Mar 22, 2010 | 08:01 PM
  #14  
dj.papazian's Avatar
dj.papazian
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 272
Likes: 1
I second that! Please please please a video of the jcw factory with the RR catless downpipe. I'm really considering this setup soon but I want to hear it first! Btw, brilliant work on
the car. Cheers
 
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 04:36 AM
  #15  
J_'09s's Avatar
J_'09s
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
Likes: 1
From: Bama
Originally Posted by MBW Motorsports
Hmmm...reading up on it here on an R55/Clubbie that combo seemed like the way to go...maybe it's different for the R56/hardtops yeah? IIRC talking to the NM folks that's what they recommended for the R55 too.
Maybe there is a difference. I know for a fact that Koni offers a package for various cars that includes their FSD shocks bundled with a lowering spring of some sort. I think it may be the Eibachs. Well, for some reason they don't offer this for the R56. I tried to make a sound decision from very limited resources. You can see what i went with though. It was a tough decision.
 

Last edited by J_'09s; Mar 23, 2010 at 05:09 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 06:04 AM
  #16  
Porthos's Avatar
Porthos
OVERDRIVE
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,455
Likes: 14
From: None yours!
Soundclip please I have the JCW factory exhaust and would like to do a catless dp
 
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 06:48 AM
  #17  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
OK, OK, I get it! Sounds clips or we're in deep kim chee! Might have to wait a little bit though...the rain here is biblical and I just saw a bearded dude on a huge wooden boat with a bunch of animals float by...

Post mod/pre-tune dyno scheduled for this Friday, so stay tuned!
 
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 04:51 PM
  #18  
etalj's Avatar
etalj
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by J_'09s
Maybe there is a difference. I know for a fact that Koni offers a package for various cars that includes their "Sport" (yellows) shocks bundled with a lowering spring of some sort. I think it may be the Eibachs. Well, for some reason they don't offer this for the R56. I read up on it a lot. Someone else may be able to explain if better. You can see what i went with though. It was a tough decision.
You're thinking of the H&R Touring coilovers (IIRC).

Eibach Pro Streets come with KW shocks, and Eibach Multi-Pros come with Koni Race shocks (not Yellows)

Originally Posted by MBW Motorsports
OK, OK, I get it! Sounds clips or we're in deep kim chee! Might have to wait a little bit though...the rain here is biblical and I just saw a bearded dude on a huge wooden boat with a bunch of animals float by...
lol thx buddy. Do as many as you can from as many different perspectives.
 
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 05:04 PM
  #19  
J_'09s's Avatar
J_'09s
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
Likes: 1
From: Bama
I actually meant that koni offers a bundle including the "fsd" with eibach lowering springs. But they dont offer it for minis. Therefore trying to make a point that lowering springs coupled with the FSDs may be a bad idea. This is confusing everyone i'm sure. My bad.

I can't wait to see the dyno run and the soundclips.
 

Last edited by J_'09s; Mar 23, 2010 at 05:09 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 06:10 PM
  #20  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
I forgot...we have an NM Engineering Torque Arm Insert installed too. You can definitely tell the difference, and I mean that in a good way, although it would probably give the MINI NVH (Noise/Vibration/Harshness) engineer-types a fit...
 
Reply
Old Mar 23, 2010 | 09:06 PM
  #21  
etalj's Avatar
etalj
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by J_'09s
I actually meant that koni offers a bundle including the "fsd" with eibach lowering springs. But they dont offer it for minis. Therefore trying to make a point that lowering springs coupled with the FSDs may be a bad idea. This is confusing everyone i'm sure. My bad.

I can't wait to see the dyno run and the soundclips.
Oh I see, sorry, I thought you were referring to coilovers (I actually misread it, not your fault)

Yes, I agree that I wouldn't use FSDs with lower springs (except maybe with TSWs, cos they aren't much lower, but even still, I probably wouldn't do it.
 
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2010 | 08:23 AM
  #22  
n1tr0's Avatar
n1tr0
5th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 5
From: WA
Originally Posted by MBW Motorsports
Here's the baseline dyno of our '09 JCW R55 before mods...


Are you sure that's a factory JCW ? it sure doesn't look like it ? you're missing the badging from the grill and the inlet pipe between the turbo and the MAF is a standard S part.
 
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2010 | 09:15 AM
  #23  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by n1tr0
Are you sure that's a factory JCW ? it sure doesn't look like it ? you're missing the badging from the grill and the inlet pipe between the turbo and the MAF is a standard S part.
Uhhh...yeah. You can see the JCW badge on the lower right side of the (lower) grille, and the inlet pipe was swapped with a standard S an because of fitment issues that we were having trying to get all the parts to play nice, (very handy having another MINI, well, handy...) Besides, I don't know too many S-models that would dyno @ 197 FWHP stock...
 
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2010 | 09:21 AM
  #24  
n1tr0's Avatar
n1tr0
5th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 5
From: WA
Originally Posted by MBW Motorsports
Uhhh...yeah. You can see the JCW badge on the lower right side of the (lower) grille, and the inlet pipe was swapped with a standard S an because of fitment issues that we were having trying to get all the parts to play nice, (very handy having another MINI, well, handy...) Besides, I don't know too many S-models that would dyno @ 197 FWHP stock...
I must have spaced on the badge, and depending on the dyno and the Mini, some will hit 197fwhp with overboost.
 
Reply
Old Mar 24, 2010 | 09:48 AM
  #25  
MBW Motorsports's Avatar
MBW Motorsports
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by n1tr0
I must have spaced on the badge, and depending on the dyno and the Mini, some will hit 197fwhp with overboost.
And I forgot to give you props for picking up on the intake inlet pipe...I was wondering when/if someone was gonna pick that up!

Yeah, don't get me started on dynos...unless you're always using the same one all the time it's like weighing yourself on different scales, there's all sorts of ways to make you feel better about yourself!
 
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:42 PM.