Drivetrain Best intercooler ever..??
#7
02-12-2010, 06:44 AM
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#8
02-12-2010, 10:32 AM
you would want to run a w2a .
#10
02-12-2010, 06:35 PM
#12
02-13-2010, 05:31 AM
#14
02-13-2010, 06:48 AM
#17
02-13-2010, 09:22 AM
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As part of our racing development we have performed considerable intercooler testing utilizing cores from budget over seas manufacturers and high dollar units. We have had decent luck with some of the less expensive cores but for our own use on our street and race cars we only use real Garrett intercooler cores.
We have made packages utilizing these cores for other platforms we work on. Here are some of the results we have seen. (P.S. to avoid being coy this is something we are working on for the R56 platform.)
We have made packages utilizing these cores for other platforms we work on. Here are some of the results we have seen. (P.S. to avoid being coy this is something we are working on for the R56 platform.)
#18
02-13-2010, 04:51 PM
well as, what seems to be, a general rule, Air-to-air ICs will be better on street, and W2A ICs are a race application. this is not always the case, but usually if you want the best gains possible, a W2A intercooler is the way to go, most boosted drag cars have them cuz for that 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 or mile, that intercooler will give unbelievable gains over a regular or race air to air. only problem with w2a on street is heat, the units typically work great for maybe 10 hard pulls, but after that can heat up. obviously there are ways to make that not an issue, but that issue solving comes in the form of extra weight and tighter engine and/or bumper space. obviously not a problem on some cars like a heavily boosted mustang, but that's only race technologies. look at the Corvette ZR1, amazing engine, W2A, you throw that kinda efficiency in a MINI and you're a win (aka keep your eye on Clint at DoS). but in the mean time, most budget friendly, and far more common A2A intercooler seems to be the best for most power applications.
i made a thread comparing Alta and Helix ICs side by side and driving impressions, from what i can tell, in quick fire style, the quick sum up is like this.... Stock, plastic end tanks, holds up to 22 psi but not as much air gets to it (22psi comes from what i've seen some stock JCWs do with the stock IC which is the same as the MCS ones...) next would be Helix, cast end tanks, larger than stock bottom step core, design seems to make most of the air go through the bottom with the top fin section being almost an ambient cooler (this is the intercooler i run and between stock, alta and helix i prefer helix significantly over Alta, especially for it's direct fit and no cutting) helix kinda morphs into Forge, which has a smaller i THINK (not sure) stock sized lower core with an alta kind of tall upper core, stock like attachment brackets and the fabricated end tanks throw the charged air all throughout (which in most cases going from bottom to top of ic will make for boost loss since it has further to move, but forge is a very large company and has lots of experience in making ICs as you'd see on their sight). and last is Alta (it almost fits!), very tall IC, no brackets, comes with a small strip that goes between the bumper beam and the IC (it basically leans forward against the strip... downside of Alta IC is the need to trim plastic down at the bottom and the cold boost side of the IC doesn't have the same angle as the stock, helix, or forge IC, so it's almost a direct fit like the other two. then there's ARC... stock looking, same size, and... welll... doesn't seem to be ANY different minus cast end tanks instead of plastic....
but anyhoo, my two pence is helix, forge does basically the same thing, but Helix is american made
gotta stimulate the economy right :P
i made a thread comparing Alta and Helix ICs side by side and driving impressions, from what i can tell, in quick fire style, the quick sum up is like this.... Stock, plastic end tanks, holds up to 22 psi but not as much air gets to it (22psi comes from what i've seen some stock JCWs do with the stock IC which is the same as the MCS ones...) next would be Helix, cast end tanks, larger than stock bottom step core, design seems to make most of the air go through the bottom with the top fin section being almost an ambient cooler (this is the intercooler i run and between stock, alta and helix i prefer helix significantly over Alta, especially for it's direct fit and no cutting) helix kinda morphs into Forge, which has a smaller i THINK (not sure) stock sized lower core with an alta kind of tall upper core, stock like attachment brackets and the fabricated end tanks throw the charged air all throughout (which in most cases going from bottom to top of ic will make for boost loss since it has further to move, but forge is a very large company and has lots of experience in making ICs as you'd see on their sight). and last is Alta (it almost fits!), very tall IC, no brackets, comes with a small strip that goes between the bumper beam and the IC (it basically leans forward against the strip... downside of Alta IC is the need to trim plastic down at the bottom and the cold boost side of the IC doesn't have the same angle as the stock, helix, or forge IC, so it's almost a direct fit like the other two. then there's ARC... stock looking, same size, and... welll... doesn't seem to be ANY different minus cast end tanks instead of plastic....
but anyhoo, my two pence is helix, forge does basically the same thing, but Helix is american made
gotta stimulate the economy right :P
#19
03-27-2010, 11:09 PM
DoS R55, R56, R57 Turbo/'S' W2A IC Unveiled at AMVIV 7
Well, DoS has the pre-production W2A unit finished, final parts sourced, & unveiled our new baby at AMVIV 7. We're now cranking to announce our not-so-scary final retail pricing this week.
This completely street and trackworthy W2A design has allowed us to remove over 5 feet of tubing from the air inlet tract, allowing for a major reduction in turbo lag. Initial datalogging is showing intake temps of 5-to-25 degrees above ambient under varied repeated heavy loading and brief recovery periods.
More news to come later this week.
This completely street and trackworthy W2A design has allowed us to remove over 5 feet of tubing from the air inlet tract, allowing for a major reduction in turbo lag. Initial datalogging is showing intake temps of 5-to-25 degrees above ambient under varied repeated heavy loading and brief recovery periods.
More news to come later this week.
#20
03-28-2010, 07:51 AM
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#21
03-28-2010, 08:17 AM
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well as, what seems to be, a general rule, Air-to-air ICs will be better on street, and W2A ICs are a race application. this is not always the case, but usually if you want the best gains possible, a W2A intercooler is the way to go, most boosted drag cars have them cuz for that 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 or mile, that intercooler will give unbelievable gains over a regular or race air to air. only problem with w2a on street is heat, the units typically work great for maybe 10 hard pulls, but after that can heat up. obviously there are ways to make that not an issue, but that issue solving comes in the form of extra weight and tighter engine and/or bumper space. obviously not a problem on some cars like a heavily boosted mustang, but that's only race technologies. look at the Corvette ZR1, amazing engine, W2A, you throw that kinda efficiency in a MINI and you're a win (aka keep your eye on Clint at DoS). but in the mean time, most budget friendly, and far more common A2A intercooler seems to be the best for most power applications.
i made a thread comparing Alta and Helix ICs side by side and driving impressions, from what i can tell, in quick fire style, the quick sum up is like this.... Stock, plastic end tanks, holds up to 22 psi but not as much air gets to it (22psi comes from what i've seen some stock JCWs do with the stock IC which is the same as the MCS ones...) next would be Helix, cast end tanks, larger than stock bottom step core, design seems to make most of the air go through the bottom with the top fin section being almost an ambient cooler (this is the intercooler i run and between stock, alta and helix i prefer helix significantly over Alta, especially for it's direct fit and no cutting) helix kinda morphs into Forge, which has a smaller i THINK (not sure) stock sized lower core with an alta kind of tall upper core, stock like attachment brackets and the fabricated end tanks throw the charged air all throughout (which in most cases going from bottom to top of ic will make for boost loss since it has further to move, but forge is a very large company and has lots of experience in making ICs as you'd see on their sight). and last is Alta (it almost fits!), very tall IC, no brackets, comes with a small strip that goes between the bumper beam and the IC (it basically leans forward against the strip... downside of Alta IC is the need to trim plastic down at the bottom and the cold boost side of the IC doesn't have the same angle as the stock, helix, or forge IC, so it's almost a direct fit like the other two. then there's ARC... stock looking, same size, and... welll... doesn't seem to be ANY different minus cast end tanks instead of plastic....
but anyhoo, my two pence is helix, forge does basically the same thing, but Helix is american made gotta stimulate the economy right :P
i made a thread comparing Alta and Helix ICs side by side and driving impressions, from what i can tell, in quick fire style, the quick sum up is like this.... Stock, plastic end tanks, holds up to 22 psi but not as much air gets to it (22psi comes from what i've seen some stock JCWs do with the stock IC which is the same as the MCS ones...) next would be Helix, cast end tanks, larger than stock bottom step core, design seems to make most of the air go through the bottom with the top fin section being almost an ambient cooler (this is the intercooler i run and between stock, alta and helix i prefer helix significantly over Alta, especially for it's direct fit and no cutting) helix kinda morphs into Forge, which has a smaller i THINK (not sure) stock sized lower core with an alta kind of tall upper core, stock like attachment brackets and the fabricated end tanks throw the charged air all throughout (which in most cases going from bottom to top of ic will make for boost loss since it has further to move, but forge is a very large company and has lots of experience in making ICs as you'd see on their sight). and last is Alta (it almost fits!), very tall IC, no brackets, comes with a small strip that goes between the bumper beam and the IC (it basically leans forward against the strip... downside of Alta IC is the need to trim plastic down at the bottom and the cold boost side of the IC doesn't have the same angle as the stock, helix, or forge IC, so it's almost a direct fit like the other two. then there's ARC... stock looking, same size, and... welll... doesn't seem to be ANY different minus cast end tanks instead of plastic....
but anyhoo, my two pence is helix, forge does basically the same thing, but Helix is american made
gotta stimulate the economy right :P
Oh and that w2a setup looks great! Hope it doesn't cost too much.
#23
03-29-2010, 07:15 PM
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Well, DoS has the pre-production W2A unit finished, final parts sourced, & unveiled our new baby at AMVIV 7. We're now cranking to announce our not-so-scary final retail pricing this week.
This completely street and trackworthy W2A design has allowed us to remove over 5 feet of tubing from the air inlet tract, allowing for a major reduction in turbo lag. Initial datalogging is showing intake temps of 5-to-25 degrees above ambient under varied repeated heavy loading and brief recovery periods.
More news to come later this week.
This completely street and trackworthy W2A design has allowed us to remove over 5 feet of tubing from the air inlet tract, allowing for a major reduction in turbo lag. Initial datalogging is showing intake temps of 5-to-25 degrees above ambient under varied repeated heavy loading and brief recovery periods.
More news to come later this week.
I just hope the price is just as attractive!
How is the install on this Clint?
#24
03-29-2010, 07:46 PM
Well, DoS has the pre-production W2A unit finished, final parts sourced, & unveiled our new baby at AMVIV 7. We're now cranking to announce our not-so-scary final retail pricing this week.
This completely street and trackworthy W2A design has allowed us to remove over 5 feet of tubing from the air inlet tract, allowing for a major reduction in turbo lag. Initial datalogging is showing intake temps of 5-to-25 degrees above ambient under varied repeated heavy loading and brief recovery periods.
More news to come later this week.
This completely street and trackworthy W2A design has allowed us to remove over 5 feet of tubing from the air inlet tract, allowing for a major reduction in turbo lag. Initial datalogging is showing intake temps of 5-to-25 degrees above ambient under varied repeated heavy loading and brief recovery periods.
More news to come later this week.
....any chance of a PWR barrel style IC for the R53 or not enough room 
#25
03-29-2010, 08:25 PM
The R56 is much better situated for a setup like this. We also have the room to play thanks to our CAI design.
However, DoS has not forgotten about the R53. We have new prototype parts coming in next week that should really help out the R53 in the intercooler department at a price that will retail at ~= 1/3 the price of our current IC offerings. If testing proves what our math is showing, we'll revolutionize intercooling for the R53.