So I finally purchased a lightened flywheel....got a price and deal that I couldn't pass up! And just trying to figure out what the best Clutch to mate with it would be for street use. I've got a Fidanza flywheel coming for my "S"...I've been looking at both Spec and Clutchmasters kits Stage 2. But wondering if anybody has input on the best streetable setup for that flywheel. Any input would be much appreciated! Thanks....Cali

 

Hey nice meeting you last night . Wish I could give you some first hand experience with those, but I can't. We started with the Clutchmaster stage 3 and then moved to the stage 4 and have been very happy with it.

 

i have the spec with my fidanza and it causes gear chatter. Supposedly it doesnt hurt anything but it does sound a little weird. I am not the only person to experience this either.

 

Mostly street applications, the Clutchmasters FX200 probably is your best bet.

Any lighter weight dual mass flywheel will cause clatter.

 

I've been happy with the Clutchmasters FX200 for my daily driving duties. There is some clutch chatter, but it basically comes with the territory of lightweight flywheels and performance clutches. You're welcome to check out the feel of my clutch the next time we meet.

 

from my research, the key to reducing chatter in nuetral is to use a springed hub clutch disc with the aluminum flywheel. the S uses a solid hub due to the dual mass flywheel. the flywheel is acting as the vibration dampener. when that is made solid and you mate that with a solid hub clutch disc, you get chatter.

 

Go with the Clutchmaster for sure.

The only clutch I have ever had completely explode was a Spec. Some of the clutches have the material glued on with no rivets, and the pressure plates are clamped together, not riveted.


Make sure you get the aftermarket flywheel version. The OEM replacement has an unsprung hub, while the aftermarket flywheel version is sprung hub.

 

I have been told this, but its kinda too late and its not really that bad...just kinda weird in the beginning

 

I had a SPEC stage 2 clutch melt and fuse to the pressure plate under normal conditions, it was not abused. I'll never buy from them again. Go Clutchmasters.

 

The cause of clutch chatter, which is commonly found by switching from a DMF to a one-piece flywheel, is because there are no torsional dampers to reduce power spikes which come from the engines crank shaft. At idle an analog tachometer will show an idle of about 900rpm. What is really the case, however, is the idle is jumping from about 880 to ~915. The reason for this is because the time between each combustion in each chamber is longer than when the engine is turning at higher RPMs, so it causes a rougher power spike each time. The power spikes smoothen out as the RPMs increase because the time span between each combustion is shortened, and the crank rotation becomes more consistent and smoother. As a result, the teeth of the gears (in the transmission) stop rattling against each other and mesh/transition into each other more smoothly. Dual Mass Flywheels, by design, are essentially two flywheels put together with a few torsional springs located inside the outter most part of the flywheel. By relocating the torsional springs to the clutch hub, it is no longer as efficient as a DMF due to the limited size of the hub, as well as more limited movement (smaller springs). What you're looking for in a clutch shouldn't be part numbers and name brands (FX200 or Stage 1-2 blah blah) it should be two things:
1. How much torque can it hold?
2. Is it a sprung hub or a solid disc?

#2 not being nearly as important as #1.

Torque load rating is very important as you don't want something too aggressive, and you don't want something that'll start slipping when you put the power down. Generally, you should get a clutch which holds about 15-20% more torque than what your vehicle will be producing. Some companies rate their torque loads to the flywheel, and some companies rate it to the wheels, and some even underrate them (Exedy). Another thing to look for, since our cars don't have pull-type assemblies, is the increase in clamp load. Too much of an increase in clamp load on a daily driven car, and the pedal effort will increase exponentially (it's good to have an increase in clamp load. more clamp load = holds more torque). The diaphragm springs on the pressure plate of the clutch cover will actually INCREASE in springrate as the pressure plate wears in. It does eventually hit a peak, and gradually decreases as the pressure plate wears out. Anyone that tells you to get a clutch based on your HP rating is out of his mind. Horsepower has little bearing on a clutch assembly, you want TORQUE rating. The life span of the clutch also depends on the driver's driving style, and the material it's made out of.

I'm pretty tired right now from work, so I guess this is gonna be the end of clutch lesson #1.

By the way, it's possible to reduce clutch chatter by mixing transmission fluids. Clutch chatter doesn't harm any components, it's basically just a creature comfort.

I haven't seen the build quality of the SPEC or Clutchmasters, but I would recommend ACT. Just be sure you get the full-face sprung disc.

 

Ya the one thing that I'm not worried about is chatter. It's an engine and it's sup to have it's own sound, knocks, and pings.....all within reason however! I've heard a lightened flywheel in a mini before and didn't think it was loud at all. From what everybody has said though it seems that the best way to go is going to be the stage two kit from clutchmasters.....FX200, I was kind of leaning that way, but everybody's advice kinda put it over the top for me. Always good to get some feedback from people that have been there! So thanks....I'll be sure to keep everybody up to date!

 

Mixing transmission fluids...PLease tell me more becuase the idle jumping bugs the crap out of me and makes me feel like my car is a pos!

 

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_te...nny_rattle.htm

 

Ok so i read up on this on many other forums, and the people dont seem to like the difference in shifting that it causes. IDK i guess i could try, but i would like to hear some other opinions.

 

I have never had issues with SPEC. I had the stg 2 clutch/ AF on my 03 Mustang GT, stg. 2+/AF on my 01 Wolfsburg Jetta, and now stg 2+/AF on my 04 MCS. I always make sure to follow the break in period with plenty of stop & go traffic. I'm breaking in the MCS now. I heargood and bad about all brands(SPEC, CM, ACT, Luk, Sachs)....you win some, you lose some. I haven't been disappointed with SPEC yet so........

 

Well to be honest with you the flywheel chatter isn't that bad at all IMO. I've heard mini's that have had a lightened fw and it didn't sound any different than a stock one unless you were listening really hard for it.
I think that there's a big gain to be had with unsprung weight being removed from the drive train, the engine being able to rev more freely, and being able to rev match better.
But in the end it just depends on what you want your car do to for you....if just going to work and getting groceries is your goal then it prob isn't a mod for you. But if you like auto-x, canyon driving, and being able to light people up at a stop light in a mini....and have the cash for the change over....then it's a good mod to have.

M!n! - I couldn't agree with you more when you say that it all has to do with the break in. So many people don't really follow the right steps to break in a clutch, they just want to see how much they can thrash on it right out of the shop!

 

I broke it in very carefully in stop and go driving, following the proper break-in procedure. After that, I never dumped it or abused it.

When my melted spec clutch was removed, the flywheel side of the clutch was in perfect shape and the mechanic said it was broken in correctly. He had never seen a melted clutch that looked so pristine. None of the mechanics there could explain how it fused to the pressure plate.

 

I can't explain it either .....lol sounds to me like they were meant to be together... lil transmission humor( i know its corny...but you cracked a smile didn't you??)

 

I never smile.

 

ok so no one has tried the mix of the fluids?

 

A smile is a curve that sets everything straight. ~Phyllis Diller

 

Spec/ACT/CM/CC all use OEM Pressure plates purchased from LuK/Sachs or Exedy, which are then modified to increase clamp load and all that jazz. As for Spec clutch discs, they are TERRIBLE I believe they're made by SECO which, while inexpensive, the phrase "you get what you pay for" comes in to play. Exedy and LuK/Sachs are the ONLY companies which can design performance clutches from the ground up as performance clutches. Flywheels, by design, are pretty basic so any company and conjur up whatever they want and it'll work.

 

would you mind providing the source of that info?

 

+1

Hmmm really?

To me the OEM LuK clutches and flywheels in these cars are garbage. So how can you say that Clutchmaster sells an inferior product to OEM?

Something doesn't jive.

 

I’m using a mix of Silkolene Silktran SYN 5 (API GL4/5 SAE 75W/90) and MTF-94. Straight SYN 5 slowed shifting too much in cold weather, but killed the rattle in both hot and cold conditions, straight MTF-94 provides slick shifting, but rattles increase. pepegrande008, by slow shifting I think “notchy” may be a relatable term. This fluid mix seems to be a good balance with over 100k miles on the gearbox. I would imagine similar results could be had with RL MTL & SYN 5, or RL MTL & MT 90. There’s more to the story, but this is about the noise subject; BTW, I’m not bothered in the least by the rattle, now that I’ve experienced the annoying Chewbacca howl. I haven’t had the howl in over six months though.

Some of the rattle from early model MCS gearboxes comes from the clutch release bearing and guide tube. The early model bearing guide bore is all metal, unlike the nylon lined sleeve of the new bearing, and the tolerances of the old bearing are a bit more sloppy over the guide tube.