>>Is there any technical reason why you can't ship the
>>injector to someone so that they can try it out for themselves,
>>restore to stock, and ship it back to you?
>>
>>(Hint hint)

Yes, from what I understand the first time you use it, it locks in the Vin #/Serial Number or some number anyway from the ECU so you can't use the Shark Injector on another car. What would be best is if Randy can find someone local who wants to try it and can bring their car in for Dyno run before and after.

 

They have a dyno chart on their site! How interesting. It even shows good numbers! Even more interesting.

Hey, I have some stickers that you can put on your car and will get you 10 hp. I can make a site with some dyno results that can "prove" it works.

It makes perfect sense that they would have charts showing how wonderful their product is. You think the testing was done by an unbiased and independent source?

Let's get real people.

 

That's why we all love Randy, Right?

 

>>That's why we all love Randy, Right?
While Randy does provide very good information and testing-he still has a business and interest in selling MINI upgrades to us, as do the other vendors on MCO. I fully support his and other vendor's efforts. What would it be like if we didn't have all the resources we enjoy? A lot duller. Forget that!! Beware financial interests.

Now about the Shark injector-
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...Engine%20Chips
From Turner-
"TMS Power Pulley Package Stage I for the Mini Cooper S"
Our best selling software/pulley package is finally now in Shark Injector form! We are getting 196-208 horsepower at the engine (160-175 wheel horsepower, depending on intercooler temp) from the TMS power pulley and software kit. Kit includes special BOSCH spark plugs designed for the Mini Cooper S running higher boost, custom TMS/Conforti software loaded in a "do it yourself" Shark Injector unit - no need to send out your ECU! And a two-piece billet aluminum supercharger pulley with stainless steel self-centering insert. The smaller supercharger pulley increases boost from a stock 10.5 to 14.5 lbs - this increased boost is especially noticeable at lower RPM, making your Mini S even more fun to drive than it is now. We are talking a gain of 30-34HP at the engine (or about 25-30hp at the wheels)! We installed this on our blue and yellow project MINI Cooper S in December 2002, and all we can say is.... "WOW! This car is faster than an E36 M3!" and since then we have put over 20,000 trouble free miles on the car. The Shark Injector for the Mini S increases your rev limit by 200 and removes the top speed limiter. It is also available separately for customers who already have a smaller pulley (works with pulleys that make between 13-15 lbs boost.) Installation of the TMS power pulley takes 3-4 hours - professional installation is required. The Shark Injector - can be installed yourself in less than 15 minutes and is completely reversible if you wish. Click here for dyno chart.
Applications: 2002-2004 Cooper S (MINI)
Price: $569.00
Options: Do you run 93 or 91 Octane?
Options: Pulley, Shark Software or Complete Kit?

And info on the shark for other BMWs so you get the idea of what it is supposed to do-
1996-2000 Shark Injector 323/328/528/M3/Mcoupe/Mroadster
TMS / Conforti Performance Engine Software represents the most cost-effective approach to increasing engine performance. It has been dyno-tested to provide a safe increase in power by altering fuel enrichment, cam timing and ignition timing specifically for use with premium gasoline. TMS OBD-II Performance Engine Software also provides an increase in the factory rev-limit allowing for optimum shift points for maximum acceleration. Not only do we re-map part-throttle fuel and spark, we also re-map other areas of chips other tuners don't touch - such as acceleration enrichment, transition fueling (how the car responds to rapid change in pedal, and VANOS control as needed to optimize the vehicle for operation on premium fuel. CLICK HERE FOR INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.
Applications: 1996-2000 All 6 cylinder BMW from 96-00 (except E36 323.)
Price: $399.00
Sale Price: $349.00

 

So they are saying the KIT (software and plugs) plus the pulley gives 160-175 wheel horsepower? Well which is it? 160 Sounds like the pulley is making all of the gains and 175 would mean the software is good for 10-12 HP. Big difference. Second, where do they get 196-208 crank HP from 160-175HP??? That's a 35-38HP loss!! Talk about an exaggeration! Hopefully Randy will have his results soon. I think we're all anxiously awaiting them.

 

15% loss from the flywheel to the wheels. .85*206=176. Seems a bit weaker either way since I think randy shows a bigger gain with his stuff.

 

It does sound like they are try to inflate the driveline losses to make the engine horsepower numbers sound more "impressive". But whatcha gonna do? I think Randy uses 11% as a conservative best guess on the driveline loss. Seems about right to me.

My car dyno'd out at 155HP (at the wheels) bone stock. 170HP after adding the pulley and intake. 175HP after (temporarily) adding the EVOtech programming. Stock exhaust on all runs. I'd want to see a minimum of 185HP (at the wheels of my car, on "my" dyno) in order to feel that the ECU was worth the money. (And yes, that would be a 30HP increase at the wheels, so the Shark claims seem reasonable in that sense.)

185HP at the wheels is probably something in the neighborhood of 205-210 at the crank.

 

This car is faster than an E36 M3?

If I recall correctly, they have had that language on their website since sometime last year - long before this software was avaiable. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I feel quite certain...

And faster than an M3? I just drove in my colleagues during lunch today, and I would have to disagree...

 

I had one on my 97 Z3 2.8 and it was great. easy to install, and even better you can remove it. My wife just sold her Z3 and we ordered a MCS yesterday. Unless I go with Dinan( they said next April), I'll probably go with the shark :smile:

 

The problem is that there are too many variables when trying to estimate Crank HP gains from a single product. I don't beleave Turner, EvoTech or Randy's PowerChip gains claimed because we don't know how the car was setup, what %loss was used to estimate HP and different dyno's will yield different results. I don't really care about specific HP numbers I just want to know how each product compares against one another. This can only be achieved by testing products on the same dyno using the same car and best if done on the same day. That's what makes Randy such a value to this site because he has done testing in the past with Exhausts, Intakes and Headers so we have a comparison of which products will give us the most HP for the money. I just hope he will do it soon with the Shark and compare it against the EvoTech and his new PowerChip product.

 

This week I will be doing a before/after test with the Shark on our Cooper S. The car has a Rogue Airbox, 15% Pulley and Milltek catback. We will do some pulls with stock software and some pulls with the car "Sharked".

I have mine installed and it feels good to me so far! -Pete, Stratmosphere




Mini Shark Injector - STRATMOSPHERE

 

Great, we will be waiting your results!

 

Great - NOW we are talking! That's all I wanted... :smile:

 

Bring it on Stratmosphere!!! he exclaims, twitching in anticipation for an ECU upgrade

 

Just back from the Dynapack Dyno (nice of a local friend of mine to open a new facility!). Data is at the wheels. 93 Octane Shark. Temps at the intercooler surface from 66-69 degrees F for all runs.

Car has a 15% pulley, Rogue airbox, Milltek catback.

Run with stock (no Shark). 155.6ft/lb with a peak at 4,384. 188.9hp at 6,890.

With Shark. 202.3hp at 6,937. 159.3ft/lb with 4,485 peak but the torque is earlier and separates from stock at 2,900 rpm with a good deal of area over the stock torque curve through 5,000 and then much more from there to redline. Shark torque is flatter, stock is peaky.

Very important. Car ran at least .5 AFR lower with the Shark (more rich). Some stock pulls just looked too lean to us.

No great graphs to show. I'm transfering to Excel for viewing.

Bottom line is that the horsepower is obviously up, torque is earlier and holds longer with a small gain in peak. Car runs more safely rich. -Pete, Stratmosphere

Stratmosphere Mini Shark

 

Pete, thanks for the update! I have questions though! :smile:

 

>>Run with stock (no Shark). 155.6ft/lb with a peak at 4,384. 188.9hp at 6,890.
>>
>>With Shark. 202.3hp at 6,937. 159.3ft/lb with 4,485 peak but the torque is earlier and separates from stock at 2,900 rpm with a good deal of area over the stock torque curve through 5,000 and then much more from there to redline. Shark torque is flatter, stock is peaky.
>>
Pete:

What were your peak IATs for both runs. I'd also love to see even not great graphs.

 

It's going to be interesting to see the graphs and how they compare to the other ECUs out there. It would be nice if Randy could test it since he has tried all the other chip upgrades.

I can't wait for my pulley in Oct.

Amit

 

Wow, that's a great improvement, should be good for around 15hp at the crank. Right where Turner indicated it should be. I would really like to see the EvoTech and the Powerchip tested together with the Shark to see where they all stand. I am also confused about the Richness issue... Everyone always talks about how rich it runs stock and how some people are even burning out the exhaust resonators and cats because so much fuel is being burned by the cat. On the track things are just getting too hot.

 

Very interesting thread, I'm getting interested in the Shark.

2 questions for the Shark-savvy:

1) I have read on several forums that the stock MINI ECU can only be re-flashed 13 times. I am not sure why there would be such a limit, or how that would work, but again that was thrown out in several posts. Does this mean that with the Shark, you can only change from Shark back to stock 6 times after the first change to Shark? Does the unit keep track of this, and will the dealer be able to tell if a unit has been re-flashed more times than in the dealers record?

2) I am curious about the two versions for 91 and 93 octane. The standard ECU adapts to lower grade fuel, will either one of these two units be able to do that? Reason I'm asking is that in my area most gas has 93 octane, so I'd get that unit. Occasionally though when traveling, you can't avoid a station where you only get 92 or 91 octane (once I even came across a station that had 'premium' for sale at only 89 octane), can the 93 octane unit deal with this?

TIA!
Markus

 

I bought the TMS power package (pulley, shark injector, spark plugs) and will be installing it on Saturday.

I asked that we dyno once the pulley is in, and then redyno after the injector.

I will make those findings available once I hvae them.

Louay

 

Here's a theoretic question.

I have intake, throttlebody, Pilo ignition system with colder spark plugs, M7 Plasma Booster, exhaust header, and quicksilver exhaust. I have not added the pulley but will in the next few months- waiting for the next pulley party.

I know that I can choose certain program files based on my upgrades but BEFORE I install the pulley can my MINI run with the software optimized for the pulley given the other upgrades I already have or would the performance suffer from the lack of the pulley so much that I would just have to wait until next year before installing the shark with the biggest upgrade settings mode program.

Thanks.

 

Hey Markus, I remember Andy responded to this once in another thread about issue #1. I think this is all I've seen about it.

MG-BGT wrote:
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a reminder that this Siemens ECU for some bizarre reason can only be re-flashed 13 times, so you don't want to do too many of them!
------------------------------------------------------------------------



andy@ross-tech.com wrote
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That may be true with the factory flashing equipment, but I have reflashed my ECU over 40 times and the counter still reads "1".
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

>>
>>2) I am curious about the two versions for 91 and 93 octane. The standard ECU adapts to lower grade fuel, will either one of these two units be able to do that? Reason I'm asking is that in my area most gas has 93 octane, so I'd get that unit. Occasionally though when traveling, you can't avoid a station where you only get 92 or 91 octane (once I even came across a station that had 'premium' for sale at only 89 octane), can the 93 octane unit deal with this?
>>
>>TIA!
>>Markus

Good question, but you could always take a bottle of Octane boost with you when you go on a trip. That way it won't matter!

 

>>1) I have read on several forums that the stock MINI ECU can only be re-flashed 13 times. I am not sure why there would be such a limit, or how that would work, but again that was thrown out in several posts. Does this mean that with the Shark, you can only change from Shark back to stock 6 times after the first change to Shark? Does the unit keep track of this, and will the dealer be able to tell if a unit has been re-flashed more times than in the dealers record?


All of the existing ECU modifications (EVO, Powerchip, Shark, MTH, JCW, etc.) only modify the maps, not the whole code of the ECU. The reflash counter is not tripped when such a small fragment of the code is altered.

-Eric