I have an Internet bud who worked for BMW in Europe and he says that BMW makes it a policy to UNDER report their HP so their owners don't get dinged on their insurance etc. Makes me curious as to whether they've under rated the JCW too. At least one Brit review on the JCW thinks this is so. So has anyone put it to the real engineering test and not just the seat-of-the-pants test?

 

Each car built may or may not have the advertised HP and torque that was engineered into the car. Same with the JCW kit. They have to be conservative because there is variation with the base power of the MCS. A low estimate is fine because each car will surely meet this minimum. Would you prefer the estimates be overinflated like stereo specs?

Dyno is not always the answer either. On a hot day the numbers will not be as good. On a given dyno machine the numbers may be good or not. It is sometimes hard to compare one dyno to another.

Lap times by an experienced driver with various cars on a given day and time are good indicators. Evaluations by drivers- especially with limited time behind the wheel tends to be subjective.

So who has put it to the test? John Cooper Works has no doubt and they have numbers. Believe it or not.

 

Interesting! Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I'd prefer to the numbers to be UNDER reported. It gets tiring, all this exaggeration. I mean hey, don't get my hopes up, you know what I mean? ;>

 

After reading various threads on here about MCS's on the dynos, I'm skeptical about the rating of 163 hp as a starting figure. It has seemed like most of the charts I've seen start out about 5% under that figure, while a few are as much as 10% under it. To be honest I haven't seen many that rate over it. The one JCW I saw the chart on was putting out 192hp. It would be interesting to have some imput on this from the dyno people out there.

 

First, I do NOT have a JCW's kit. I did a dyno yesterday, in the late afternoon and it was very hot and humid. Like 90 F outside. In any event, we got a Max HP reading of 197 HP, which correlates to 171.3 at the wheels. This takes into affect a rough 15% loss in the drivetrain, and if done when it was cooler and less humid out, the numbers would be a bit higher. I went the other route, and did ECU, Pulley, Intake, QS Header, QS Sport Exhaust, Thorttle Body, and 2 stage colder spark plugs, with NO head work done as of yet, but I am planning on it. More than JCW's because that is basically porting and polishing only and perhaps a new Cam, and not touching the valves. I am looking at porting / polishing, larger intake valves, and a Shcrik Cam. Then the numbers should bump up a bit more ............ The JCW kit is alot of money for less result, although it is installed by the dealer and gets warranty with it, which DOES count for quite a bit, IMHO.

 

ummm.. oh dear, newbie girlie question! What is a throttle body?!?

Thanks!

 

Anyone fimilar with Sport Compact Car magazine knows that they make frequent note of a cars claimed HP numbers and actual dyno results. Some of the biggest liars are the american car companies (some may remember fords over claim on the mustang) and recently cars like the accura RSX dont dyno close to their claimed 200hp. They also noted cars from VW had either more or very close numbers, which is like our mini. Also included in the under claimed is the M5.
My $0.02 on this is that in a company you have the engineers and the marketing people, and when they dont communicate effectively, things like the RSX happen...(drove one and have only one thing to say..."200hp my @$$!&quot or it can be explained with the low torque curve.

 

"ummm.. oh dear, newbie girlie question! What is a throttle body?!?"

A simple answer: The throtlebody is the unit responsible for letting air into the engine. You can replace the stock throtlebody with one that has a larger inlet, which allows for more air to enter the engine and increase hp.

The throtlebody is located at the lower end of the intake hose that runs to the air filter. Start at your air filter box, and you will see a large round hose (about 4" in diameter). Simply follow it down, and it connects to the throtlebody.

There's a lot more technical definition given by Randy - just do a search. He sells them on mini-madness for $469. There may even be a "how to" on it, with pictures.

Hope that helps.

S

 

Throttle body - pic

 

Thanks guys! You're great! I'll be sure to check out Randy's site but I had a quick question - does putting in a larger throttle body change the car from a 1.6 liter to something else?
Thanks again!

 

>>Thanks guys! You're great! I'll be sure to check out Randy's site but I had a quick question - does putting in a larger throttle body change the car from a 1.6 liter to something else?

No the 1.6 liters refers to engine displacement (engine size) and has nothing to do with the throttlebody.
The explanations about the throttlebody were fine. The other point is that jigster mentioned he has the upgraded and rebored throttlebody that RandyBMC is selling. This means that the inside diameter of the throttlebody opening is increased from 57mm in the stock unit to 61mm in the upgrade. (roughly 15% increase in the surface area of the opening) The round butterfly mechanism is changed out for a snug fit. The new upgraded throttlebody may increase HP by about 5 and gives a smoother throttle response at all speeds. This upgrade is for the MCS. It's important to make the upgrade just the right size larger- not too large or small as to provide an improvement on the street or track and not hurt gas mileage or drivability.

_________________
ALOHA

 

Installing a larger throttle body does not necessarily mean that any additional air is going into the engine. Only if the stock throttle body is a bottleneck, will this be the case. I'd hold off for evidence (airflow and/or pressure data) from an independent source (someone NOT selling expensive aftermarket throttle bodies) before sinking money into one.

 

>>Installing a larger throttle body does not necessarily mean that any additional air is going into the engine. Only if the stock throttle body is a bottleneck, will this be the case. I'd hold off for evidence (airflow and/or pressure data) from an independent source (someone NOT selling expensive aftermarket throttle bodies) before sinking money into one.

Yes, this is a good point. Thanks for keeping us "in line". At MCO we are enthusiasts and as such very prone to believing all of the hype around this or that performance enhancement. So we can be astute and ask the question at every turn- what is the evidence that indeed this particular upgrade is worth the cost or trouble to upgrade. If there are no dyno numbers or no objective evidence to support it then the buyer needs to beware of any claims made or even suggested. Sellers want to sell product.

I do not know if the stock throttlebody is a bottleneck for performance. It would be interesting to see how an upgraded throttlebody worked with the pulley upgrade and Powerchip ECU upgrade.

Appearance upgrades don't apply to all this. If you like how it looks then go for it.

 

Moorlockx - to ease your skepticism "skeptical about the rating of 163 hp"... the factory HP figure of the MCS quotes crank HP, as most manufacturers quote. To record HP on a dyno, one must put his drive wheels on large drums, chain his car down and give it gas... a dyno records wheel HP, then uses an estimate for driveline loss to give crank HP.

This thread has been hijacked and turned into a throttlebody thread.
Wasn't the question about a Dyno'd JCW? I'm also interested to see what the true HP of the JCW is. Anyone know?

 

>>Wasn't the question about a Dyno'd JCW? I'm also interested to see what the true HP of the JCW is. Anyone know?

Coo, so it isn't just me. :smile:

Calling all JCW owners: DYNO your Minis!!!!!

everyone send out a mental message... maybe someone will tune in.

 

I don't think they really bought the JCW for all its power, becaues from everything posted out there (not much, but...) JCW's are not as quick or as powerfull as other tuners MINI's.

It was a status/power/fear thing

 

>>I don't think they really bought the JCW for all its power, becaues from everything posted out there (not much, but...) JCW's are not as quick or as powerfull as other tuners MINI's.
>>
>>It was a status/power/fear thing

So whats your point??

I am taking delivery of my MCS next week. Once broken in I will dyno it. I have my JCW kit on order. Once it is installed and broken in I will redyno the car. I will be happy to post the numbers for you when I have them.

Some of us dont need to make amazing amounts of Horsepower to have fun. I have said it elsewhere. Have you ever driven a 300HP FWD car?? It is not fun... unless of course wheel spin is your idea of fun.

My 375HP 2600 LB. RX-7 is more fun than I can stand. I just want a good reliable fun daily driver so my RX-7 can reside in the garage and only come out to terrorize supercars.

 

Oh MAN Jim WHERE do you LIVE and can I drive your monster RX7????

 

Just North of West Palm Beach Florida. Can you drive it? HMMM...I dont know you but maybe if I ride along and you promise not to go nuts. It can get away from you pretty easy.

I have only let 3 other people drive it since it went onto the road in March. my Brother, a very capable co-worker who owns a rx-7 with 300hp, the third was a Liscensed SCCA ITS driver and my driving instructor from Evolution Driving School, his name is Marc Dana and he got out of my car and jumped around like a 10 y/o who just found out he was going to Disney. The RX-7 is a blast to drive aggresively on the track and on the street. Honestly it scares me,...and I love that feeling.

I just need to park it. I hope the Mini is as much fun to toss around. I do plan on Autocrossing it. I have watched closely other Mini's as they Autocross and they seem to do very well.

I have already been looking into rims and tires for it to Autocross with.

 

Damn, Florida! Doubt I'll ever be out that'a'way. OH well. :smile:

I rarely drive a car up to its limits if it's a high-performance car. Soon as the tires squeal just a bit I ease off, since I haven't gone to performance driving school yet.

Let us know how your autocrossing goes! I've read some good autocross II info on stock MCS vs. MC on another board which I copied and pasted onto this forum, but have yet to hear much about JCW's.

 

I'm having the JCW installed in about 2 weeks - planning to dyno the car after that

 

Excellent, please not all dyno conditions (dyno type, ambient temp, etc.). Thanks for your anticipated contribution to science.

 

>>Excellent, please not all dyno conditions (dyno type, ambient temp, etc.). Thanks for your anticipated contribution to science.


YIPPEEEEEE!

OOPS quoted the wrong post

_________________
=^.^=

Almost due:
'03 Elec. Blue/White, Black leather/Silver, Packages 1,2,3, rain sensor, H/K
(And I thought I wanted to save money! LOL!)

 

I'll pass your YIPPEEE onto minicoopermike.

 

>>I don't think they really bought the JCW for all its power, becaues from everything posted out there (not much, but...) JCW's are not as quick or as powerfull as other tuners MINI's.
>>
>>It was a status/power/fear thing