Drivetrain Review of M7 sequential shifter and more - long!!
Review of M7 sequential shifter and more - long!!
I drove Bill's (COOPRSS) R53 with the m7 sequential shifter today, and it is my next mod!! 
It takes just a couple of minutes to get used to not reaching for the stick. You can drive it like a normal stick and push the clutch in first and then shift up with the right side paddle or down with the left side paddle. This enables you to slip the clutch if needed. OR you can shift FIRST and then complete the shift by pressing in the clutch all the way and that shift is MUCH faster than I could do with a stick.
The 2-3 shift is just slightly slower than the others and I missed one shift today because of that. But I could get totally used to that in less than a day. The ability to "stack" multiple upshifts or downshifts is very cool and is something we all do now anyway. You can heel and toe just like a regular stick, but shifting first and using the clutch to complete the shift is very interesting when you are getting on the throttle hard.
I have never driven a BMW with SMG or a VW/Audi DSG or the Japanese variations, so I don't have that frame of reference to compare this to. I have driven 124K since 6/1/2002 with my present 6 speed MCS. A LOT of canyon running - 15K of HARD canyon miles at my last estimate and a few track days - Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, California Speedway, so I am FAR from a track junkie - I love canyon carving too much!!
I think that the m7 sequential shifter will really help in regular street driving and the canyons as well as the track because you will keep both hands on the wheel at all times - the correct technique.
My only real complaint - besides the $$ - is that the top of the paddles as the wheel rotates are too close - less than a finger width - to the "fixed" headlight and turn signal stalks. All they have to do is to put a small "S" bend in top of the paddles and that will take care of that issue. Randy told me that these are prototypes and that is a change that could be accomplished - it needs to be done!!
The argument that the shifter paddles should not rotate with the wheel is a valid one. But the engineering required to do that with stock MINI steering wheels is probably beyond the reach of a small outfit like m7. Maybe with an aftermarket wheel - no airbag - etc. it could be done. As Bill said in the other thread, if your hand position goes from the normal 9 and 3 o'clock to beyond 12 and 6 o'clock, then you have more to worry about than shifting!! And that's where the bump shifter option will come into play. Maybe it would be a problem in an Auto-X scenario but I don't really know.
Yes this shifter does cost too much and then add the install on top of that, but I got a big tax refund this year and I now know where it will be going!! I am not an m7 "shill" although I do have some of their parts on my car, but I also have Randy Webb's catback and Alta parts and all kinds of other stuff. I will wait for m7 to get the bump shifter done before I pull the trigger on this mod.
Please ask me anything you want about this shifter and I will answer as best as I can after my 30 minute test drive. I would not buy something like this without a extended test drive, and unfortunately to do that you will have to come to SoCal at this point.
NOW for the MORE part!!!
Now that I have told everyone in my club - SCMM - I will let the cat out of the bag.
I am the guy who just bought SpiderX's (Bob's) car. I am flying back to Atlanta in a couple of weeks and driving it back to California. I cannot believe that this car was posted for sale on NAM for nearly two months with not one nibble. I bought it because it had an amazing amount of mods, the good RMW parts and was tuned by Jan himself. But is also has m7 parts and Webb parts and Alta parts too - it is the total package, including the tune, that makes this a great deal - plus the price was right!!
It has 46,000 miles less than my current 2002 MCS and in in great shape, both mechanically and cosmetically. This car will get the m7 sequential shifter installed, but probably not before it sees track time at Willow Springs by the end of May. And it will be going to Bonneville in September. Stay tuned!!
It takes just a couple of minutes to get used to not reaching for the stick. You can drive it like a normal stick and push the clutch in first and then shift up with the right side paddle or down with the left side paddle. This enables you to slip the clutch if needed. OR you can shift FIRST and then complete the shift by pressing in the clutch all the way and that shift is MUCH faster than I could do with a stick.
The 2-3 shift is just slightly slower than the others and I missed one shift today because of that. But I could get totally used to that in less than a day. The ability to "stack" multiple upshifts or downshifts is very cool and is something we all do now anyway. You can heel and toe just like a regular stick, but shifting first and using the clutch to complete the shift is very interesting when you are getting on the throttle hard.
I have never driven a BMW with SMG or a VW/Audi DSG or the Japanese variations, so I don't have that frame of reference to compare this to. I have driven 124K since 6/1/2002 with my present 6 speed MCS. A LOT of canyon running - 15K of HARD canyon miles at my last estimate and a few track days - Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, California Speedway, so I am FAR from a track junkie - I love canyon carving too much!!
I think that the m7 sequential shifter will really help in regular street driving and the canyons as well as the track because you will keep both hands on the wheel at all times - the correct technique. My only real complaint - besides the $$ - is that the top of the paddles as the wheel rotates are too close - less than a finger width - to the "fixed" headlight and turn signal stalks. All they have to do is to put a small "S" bend in top of the paddles and that will take care of that issue. Randy told me that these are prototypes and that is a change that could be accomplished - it needs to be done!!
The argument that the shifter paddles should not rotate with the wheel is a valid one. But the engineering required to do that with stock MINI steering wheels is probably beyond the reach of a small outfit like m7. Maybe with an aftermarket wheel - no airbag - etc. it could be done. As Bill said in the other thread, if your hand position goes from the normal 9 and 3 o'clock to beyond 12 and 6 o'clock, then you have more to worry about than shifting!! And that's where the bump shifter option will come into play. Maybe it would be a problem in an Auto-X scenario but I don't really know.
Yes this shifter does cost too much and then add the install on top of that, but I got a big tax refund this year and I now know where it will be going!! I am not an m7 "shill" although I do have some of their parts on my car, but I also have Randy Webb's catback and Alta parts and all kinds of other stuff. I will wait for m7 to get the bump shifter done before I pull the trigger on this mod.
Please ask me anything you want about this shifter and I will answer as best as I can after my 30 minute test drive. I would not buy something like this without a extended test drive, and unfortunately to do that you will have to come to SoCal at this point.
NOW for the MORE part!!!
Now that I have told everyone in my club - SCMM - I will let the cat out of the bag.
I am the guy who just bought SpiderX's (Bob's) car. I am flying back to Atlanta in a couple of weeks and driving it back to California. I cannot believe that this car was posted for sale on NAM for nearly two months with not one nibble. I bought it because it had an amazing amount of mods, the good RMW parts and was tuned by Jan himself. But is also has m7 parts and Webb parts and Alta parts too - it is the total package, including the tune, that makes this a great deal - plus the price was right!!
It has 46,000 miles less than my current 2002 MCS and in in great shape, both mechanically and cosmetically. This car will get the m7 sequential shifter installed, but probably not before it sees track time at Willow Springs by the end of May. And it will be going to Bonneville in September. Stay tuned!!
Thanks for sharing. M7 continues to think out of the box and bring us new and different options. They are first to admit its not for everyone and it will find a niche.
Interesting observation on the paddles. I will throw one out - on option should be to locate the box under the car and run a single sided exhaust.
Congrats on picking up Bob's car. It has gone thru various stages of development - its current set-up being the best so you are getting a nicely set-up car.
Interesting observation on the paddles. I will throw one out - on option should be to locate the box under the car and run a single sided exhaust.
Congrats on picking up Bob's car. It has gone thru various stages of development - its current set-up being the best so you are getting a nicely set-up car.
BahamaBart -
That is a valid point. On COOPRSS's car, he had one of those m7 diaganol rear X braces and the box was mounted to that. So you lost some space in the rear area and the clicking when shifting was perhaps a bit more pronounced than if the box was mounted underneath, but the battery area was not touched at all.
I am sure that you could mount the box in the area where one of the mufflers usually sits so you could run a single side exhaust. It would just be a matter of fabbing a mounting bracket, protecting the box, and routing the cables up to the central tunnel.
That is a valid point. On COOPRSS's car, he had one of those m7 diaganol rear X braces and the box was mounted to that. So you lost some space in the rear area and the clicking when shifting was perhaps a bit more pronounced than if the box was mounted underneath, but the battery area was not touched at all.
I am sure that you could mount the box in the area where one of the mufflers usually sits so you could run a single side exhaust. It would just be a matter of fabbing a mounting bracket, protecting the box, and routing the cables up to the central tunnel.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
it sounds like even though this mod isnt for everyone m7 is going to sell more of these units than they expected. While i'm too much in love with stick to give it up, i'm finding myself warming up to the idea and am more interested in this paddle shifter the more i read about it.
one question, do you find the required use of the clutch in this system to be a plus or would you prefer no clutch at all like in a DSG for example. does the clutch add or take away from the driving experience and driver involvement?
one question, do you find the required use of the clutch in this system to be a plus or would you prefer no clutch at all like in a DSG for example. does the clutch add or take away from the driving experience and driver involvement?
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
BahamaBart -
That is a valid point. On COOPRSS's car, he had one of those m7 diaganol rear X braces and the box was mounted to that. So you lost some space in the rear area and the clicking when shifting was perhaps a bit more pronounced than if the box was mounted underneath, but the battery area was not touched at all.
I am sure that you could mount the box in the area where one of the mufflers usually sits so you could run a single side exhaust. It would just be a matter of fabbing a mounting bracket, protecting the box, and routing the cables up to the central tunnel.
That is a valid point. On COOPRSS's car, he had one of those m7 diaganol rear X braces and the box was mounted to that. So you lost some space in the rear area and the clicking when shifting was perhaps a bit more pronounced than if the box was mounted underneath, but the battery area was not touched at all.
I am sure that you could mount the box in the area where one of the mufflers usually sits so you could run a single side exhaust. It would just be a matter of fabbing a mounting bracket, protecting the box, and routing the cables up to the central tunnel.
I thought this could be only mounted one way? P.S. congrats on the new car .
Last edited by JIMINNI; Apr 13, 2008 at 07:39 AM.
As I said in the original post, since I don't have driving experience with an SMG or DSG car, I really don't know. I certainly like this better than the MCS automatic, although my seat time in that one is limited. I like it better than the MC CVT also.
I too thought I would never give up my stick, but after 5 minutes - no problem. It seems like I would use clutch first, then shift when street driving, but shift first then clutch for the track or hard canyon driving. If you would not use the clutch at all and then just ease up the throttle slightly for each shift, that would be interesting.
I too thought I would never give up my stick, but after 5 minutes - no problem. It seems like I would use clutch first, then shift when street driving, but shift first then clutch for the track or hard canyon driving. If you would not use the clutch at all and then just ease up the throttle slightly for each shift, that would be interesting.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,480
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From: Oakhurst/Fresno, CA
Steve
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Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
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From: Fresno Ca.
As I said in the original post, since I don't have driving experience with an SMG or DSG car, I really don't know. I certainly like this better than the MCS automatic, although my seat time in that one is limited. I like it better than the MC CVT also.
I too thought I would never give up my stick, but after 5 minutes - no problem. It seems like I would use clutch first, then shift when street driving, but shift first then clutch for the track or hard canyon driving. If you would not use the clutch at all and then just ease up the throttle slightly for each shift, that would be interesting.
I too thought I would never give up my stick, but after 5 minutes - no problem. It seems like I would use clutch first, then shift when street driving, but shift first then clutch for the track or hard canyon driving. If you would not use the clutch at all and then just ease up the throttle slightly for each shift, that would be interesting.
. But I belive the box can't moved. It has to be up and down. It would be much nicer if it could be mounted out of the way, for us that do use our back seats and trunk area. I was talking to Steve from the Custom Mini Shop, they had the M7 cars at their booth at AMVIV, and he didn't think it could be moved. Not 100% sure on that though.
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
I've already thought about the possibility of moving the box. With the Alta exhaust you have, you could put the box on the other side under the car. There would be some waterproofing issues, but I think it's do-able if the cables can be shortened and if the angle into the tunnel isn't too sharp. I really want to install one of these so why don't you go for it. I'll give you a big discount on the installation, too.
Steve
Steve
what you doing on NAM already 
Banned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,862
Likes: 3
From: Fresno Ca.
I've already thought about the possibility of moving the box. With the Alta exhaust you have, you could put the box on the other side under the car. There would be some waterproofing issues, but I think it's do-able if the cables can be shortened and if the angle into the tunnel isn't too sharp. I really want to install one of these so why don't you go for it. I'll give you a big discount on the installation, too.
Steve
Steve
Steve -
I went on a run with Bill K. (COOPRSS) today and he said that relocating the box off to one side won't work because of the issue of the bends required for the cables. But it would seem that if the bends were gentle that might work. Talk to Peter, I guess.
I've already thought about the possibility of moving the box. With the Alta exhaust you have, you could put the box on the other side under the car. There would be some waterproofing issues, but I think it's do-able if the cables can be shortened and if the angle into the tunnel isn't too sharp.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,480
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From: Oakhurst/Fresno, CA
Steve
I recently removed my battery box and mounted a small 11.5 pound battery in the boot. Now left is a perfect area to mount a sequential shifter box.
My worry exactly. Hopefully someone in the Fresno area will want one installed so I can get a closer look at the whole installation. I have no rear seats and carry tires and equipment back there so I don't want to give up the space for the unit in the passenger compartment. I don't want to chance buying it and not having it go where I want it to go.
If you want to check it out, we will meet you half way (well kind of). This weekend, 4/19 - 4/20, SCMM is having the annual WTSOB (Walking the Steets of Bakersfield) run and Bill K. will be there with his car. I know Michele is going to be there and some other Mid-Cal folks too.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
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From: los angeles
Thank you all for trying to re-engineer my system....
The box will not fit in the battery box, been there done that.
With that said if you make the box bigger, please go ahead and install it
down there. Installing the box outside will void the warranty as unit is not
weatherized/potted. We also tried to install the box horizontally on the floor
that's a no go either as the actuator cable will have to many sharp bends
thus jamming the gears.
The paddles for the 2 spoke steering wheel (Bills car) is being re-done to
allow high-beam to work properly.
Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123
The box will not fit in the battery box, been there done that.
With that said if you make the box bigger, please go ahead and install it
down there. Installing the box outside will void the warranty as unit is not
weatherized/potted. We also tried to install the box horizontally on the floor
that's a no go either as the actuator cable will have to many sharp bends
thus jamming the gears.
The paddles for the 2 spoke steering wheel (Bills car) is being re-done to
allow high-beam to work properly.
Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123
Thanks Peter!! I guess that answers all the speculation.
How is the schedule looking for the bump shifter option? About 30 days out? And the extended "WRC" style at the same time?
How is the schedule looking for the bump shifter option? About 30 days out? And the extended "WRC" style at the same time?
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Yes the Bump shifter is in final CAD, and I have changed the micro switch system to a magnetic reed system that will be able to withstand the beating
a shifter will take. The taller WRC extension will be available at time of sale
IE. within 30 days.
Peter
m7 tuning
562-608-8123
a shifter will take. The taller WRC extension will be available at time of sale
IE. within 30 days.
Peter
m7 tuning
562-608-8123
, here on NAM we are always glad to help out someone in need, especially vendors .
I just thought of something the m7 sequential shifter WON'T do - well not very well. 
Double clutch rev matching downshifts!! As I was driving my 6 speed stick today and I did this without really thinking about it. Oh well.....I can always borrow somebody elses MINI if I have a need to do that!!
Double clutch rev matching downshifts!! As I was driving my 6 speed stick today and I did this without really thinking about it. Oh well.....I can always borrow somebody elses MINI if I have a need to do that!!
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 361
Likes: 1
From: Boise, ID
Is any sort of option like this even available on newer cars? Never heard of a paddle-shifter with a clutch. When the first paddle-shifters became available, I thought it was the most pointless transmission option available, as it was a dumb hybrid between an automatic and a manual, and always thought that a clutch version would be the most amazing thing ever...
...Also the most expensive modification available for a MINI... EVER! At least, that's what I forsee...
Tho I'd contemplate taking out a home equity loan for such a mod.
...Also the most expensive modification available for a MINI... EVER! At least, that's what I forsee...
Tho I'd contemplate taking out a home equity loan for such a mod.
More on the "more" part of this thread
I flew into Atlanta today and took possesion of SpiderX's (Bob B.'s) car. Man what a SWEET RIDE!! The car has been beautifully maintained both inside and out and is one of the nicest 2002 MCS's I have ever seen - or driven!! AND IT IS MINE NOW!!
Oh yes and 231 WHP with a Jesus head and a tune by the master himself!! A long list of top shelf mod parts, plus all factory options available in 2002 except NAV. I brought along my Valentine One and a new Garmin 780 for the cross country trip back and it also has a Escort Laser ($1,000 +) diffuser.
I can't believe that this car was posted for sale on NAM for so long without a serious nibble. 5 minutes of looking at it and 5 minutes of driving it would have sold anybody on this car. I will post some pics when I get it back to Cali and get the m7 shifter going.
And Bob is a terrific guy who was super easy to work with. As I dropped him off at his house and he said goodbye to the car for the last time, he said " You better go now.....before....." I can understand that bond between a man (or a woman) and their MINI!!!
PS - Bob might get another MINI. And he is going to do it "right" this time!!
Oh yes and 231 WHP with a Jesus head and a tune by the master himself!! A long list of top shelf mod parts, plus all factory options available in 2002 except NAV. I brought along my Valentine One and a new Garmin 780 for the cross country trip back and it also has a Escort Laser ($1,000 +) diffuser.
I can't believe that this car was posted for sale on NAM for so long without a serious nibble. 5 minutes of looking at it and 5 minutes of driving it would have sold anybody on this car. I will post some pics when I get it back to Cali and get the m7 shifter going.
And Bob is a terrific guy who was super easy to work with. As I dropped him off at his house and he said goodbye to the car for the last time, he said " You better go now.....before....." I can understand that bond between a man (or a woman) and their MINI!!!
PS - Bob might get another MINI. And he is going to do it "right" this time!!
Peace Keeper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 1
From: Defiance, Ohio
Great to hear your trip is going well Hopefully Bob does get another Mini...I will be one to admit that I would cry if I had to sell mine
I know exactly what he meant by "do it right"...have a safe rest of the trip.
Hopefully Bob does get another Mini...I will be one to admit that I would cry if I had to sell mineI know exactly what he meant by "do it right"
...have a safe rest of the trip.
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