Howdy,

In your marketing schpeal found on this page http://gintani.emsaradmin.com/newcar...id&models_id=7 it is stated.

Can you explain to me, in simple terms please, how it is possible for what I have to assume is the intake air entering the cylinder to be at ambient temps at all times? If this is the case and you can prove it to me I will purchase one of your systems. I live for track days and here in Texas we see on track temps over 110 degrees F in the Summer. If your company can give me definitive proof I will not exceed ambient temps while on track and at speed I will drive out to SoCal and let you do the install too.

Am I also to assume that with the factory system the intake air entering the cylinder can be as high as 120 degrees Fahrenheit or 120 degrees Fahrenheit higher then ambient after leaving the OEM intercooler.

 

Great question Nate...This would be incredible if true...

 

We have documented temps ranging from 100 degrees through 110 degrees into the cylinders exiting after the liquid core. We have also recorded exits temps of the supercharger discharge and we have seen temperatures in the upwards of 280 degrees @ WOT. Let me know what other questions you may have.

Gnatster yes we stand behind our cooler technology and I will give you a personal guarantee.

 

Not sure what kind of test they did cause the air coming off the stock IC is a LOT hotter than 120 degrees on the track. I see temps of close to 180 degrees when it's just 80-85 out .

 

I was under the impression we were talking about our aftercooler. You were wanting stock ic numbers?

 

My question is solely about the claim that the Gintani after-cooler system runs at ambient temperature at all times as it is stated on your website.

At what point in the intake tract are these temps recorded?

What happens when it is below freezing, it does sometimes but not often happen here in Texas. Last weekend on the way to the track I saw temps in the lower 20's F. Does this mean I will see intake temps after the Gintani after-cooler manifold in the lower 20's F?

What is preventing the water in the system from freezing solid when the vehicle is not running and outside temps are well below freezing. The same page states that one would run a mix of distilled water and Red Lines Water Wetter. As far as I remember Water Wetter does not contain any antifreeze capabilities.

You sent me a PM stating I could obtain a full refund, less shipping, if I am not satisfied and document why I am not satisfied. You are putting the onus on me to test the product at my own expense. I would also be out any install costs as well as any any costs to revert back. All I'm asking for is documentation that the product works as stated on your website as well as a clear explanation as to how this product works.

Why should I take the risk, how about we turn it the other way. You take the risk. Ship me one of your after-cooler manifold's and I'll test it. I'll pay the shipping upfront and pay for the install. I have a data logging system on my car by racepack and log a number of parameters, in fact I've also ordered their new IQ3 unit to replace my G2X. I also have, but have yet to install, a gauge that can show IAT's at 2 different points and the difference between them.

I'll be in Vegas for AMVIV, will you be there too?

After Vegas I will be on track April 5, April 12-13 and April 19 before heading to MOTD. This will provide ample opportunity to test the system to see if indeed the after-cooler manifold "runs at ambient temperature at all times" as stated on your website.

 

So there's two that would independantlly test there products, one track ***** and one dragstrip / track *****.

Surely the best form of advertising is those out there proving there products work.

Unless what they ment to say was "on the street the Gintani aftercooler....."

 

I see......

Let’s figure out this confusion or is it me that seems to find it confusing.

Gnatster Quote:
“If your company can give me definitive proof I will not exceed ambient temps while on track and at speed I will drive out to So Cal and let you do the install too”.

There is a NAM Member Spring sale price $2495 installed. You save $$$ on the install.
I offered a full refund on the product. I don’t know how this is getting confused do you?

Gnatster Quote: At what point in the intake tract are these temps recorded?
My question is solely about the claim that the Gintani after-cooler system runs at ambient temperature at all times as it is stated on your website.

I responded with intake temps from our logs and data regarding our after cooler.
I also stated the temperatures at the supercharger discharge and the temps after the core. In order to obtain these readings sensors must be installed in place, one before the cooler one after.

Gnatster Quote: What happens when it is below freezing, it does sometimes but not often happen here in Texas. Last weekend on the way to the track I saw temps in the lower 20's F. Does this mean I will see intake temps after the Gintani after-cooler manifold in the lower 20's F?
What is preventing the water in the system from freezing solid when the vehicle is not running and outside temps are well below freezing? The same page states that one would run a mix of distilled water and Red Lines Water Wetter. As far as I remember Water Wetter does not contain any antifreeze capabilities.

Good Question…..

You can add antifreeze to the system in the winter after a flush of course. Just use the proper aluminum safe antifreeze in the system.

Gnatster Quoted: You sent me a PM stating I could obtain a full refund, less shipping, if I am not satisfied and document why I am not satisfied. You are putting the onus on me to test the product at my own expense. I would also be out any install costs as well as any costs to revert back.


We stand behind our products 150%. The not satisfied portion of our statement above was intended for constructive criticism of our products. Simply stated you cannot return the product because the sky is blue. I have yet to discover a manufacturer in motorsports that provides a completely free product that exceeds 2k dollars with no expectations and or acknowledgement of the person receiving the product. We are talking about hardware here not free stickers and or sponsorships.

Gnatster Quoted: All I'm asking for is documentation that the product works as stated on your website as well as a clear explanation as to how this product works.

If you are truly interested in our products then why not call us, why is there such hesitation from your part?

 

I could think of a few reasons involving posting etiquette myself.

 

Will you be at AMVIV?

Im sure the above will be taken another way other than intended just like the prior statements. Stir Stir Stir.....

We were under the impression that nothing in PMs are to be discussed away from PMs let alone post the contents of the message but you didnt hear us rant about that, I will speak to Sam and Mark about this, Im not sure but I will still check.

 

Why the hesitation...

You web site states "Testing has proved Gintani after-cooler system runs at ambient temperature at all times"

In this thread you state "We have documented temps ranging from 100 degrees through 110 degrees into the cylinders exiting after the liquid core"

Ambient is defined as Surrounding. For example, ambient temperature and humidity are atmospheric conditions that exist at the moment according to www.techweb.com

If we look at the average High and Low for Van Nuys, CA we see that Aug is the warmest month on avg. with a high of 96. Source http://www.weather.com/outlook/healt...nav_undeclared

Am I to assume you tested on a 100 degree day since you state "We have documented temps ranging from 100 degrees through 110 degrees into the cylinders exiting after the liquid core"

Isn't it normally about 70 some degrees out there in Sunny So Cal most days. Shouldn't we see temps about 70 some degrees into the cylinders exiting after the liquid core.

So either the data you state in this thread is erroneous or the web site is erroneous. And you want me to risk $2500??

I think not.

I will be at AMVIV...

You now have an issue that I said in PM you offered me a money back guarantee but in a post above you offer a 150% warrenty. Am I now to believe if in testing I find the product lacking for good reason, not because the sky is blue that I will get back $3750 ($2500 + 50%) Why should I even risk that you will do that as you can't even get some simple data to be the same on the website as it is in a thread. I even gave you your text.

No stirring of any pots here sir, just was asking for a simple explanation that was deflected to your own agenda, again.

 

So you want us to give you a completely free intercooler for "testing" right?

 

Well not quite....

Thanks for taking my call and discussing some possibilities with me.

To the rest of NAM...stay tuned...I think we we can all see a nice clean solution to all this so lets give this a rest for now please.

 

Talk about an Agenda - And here its !! I was wondering why someone would take this to the boards as opposed to direct discussions w/ Gitanni.

Bad form dude.

 

Before everyone starts coming up with their conspiracy theory of the day I would like to address, at a high level, what Nathan is referring to. We have been discussing with vendors the ability to use independent third parties for testing of products for the purposes of a product review in the NAM Alliance magazine. This would be done by different individuals, written up, the results (good, bad, or neutral) provided to the manufacturer prior to publishing, etc. We're trying to solicit enough feedback from vendors to find a way to set an agreeable process for all those that are interested in putting their products out there for review.

Mark

 

I interpreted this as a sneaky low down new product hint solution IF THIS MEANS a "new product testing solution" then I re-track my sentiments.

AT THE SAME TIME - If Gnaster as an individual was thinking of purchasing the Gitanni then he should have taken it up directly for there was no need to "air" any negotiations publicly. If Gnaster was acting on behalf of NAM - what was the point of the thread?

On a testing solution - you will need 3 parties present - 1) the vendor or manufacturer, 2) the testing party and 3) an independent oversight party. Anything less will allow tom foolery.

 

This approach is tacky no matter how I read it.

 

If you get to test this Nate, I will be waiting for the results
I know it will be something I can trust

 

You don't trust Randy Webb

 

come on now....that's not at all what he said

 

Randy was one of the few pioneers involved in MC's from the very start, but I guess it makes no difference anymore. We worked with him with the live tuning and provided his tuning solution when he used to do pulley parties and dyno runs. He can verify this we were tuning MC from day one with him as a driver. I remember we tore up PCH in Santa Monica while live tuning his personal car. But what do we know huh Johan..........

 

this is really strange as when I saw Randy's car in Long Beach it was running the Unichip, he also did tuning on the unichips he sold, I never once saw him selling someone elses aftermarket tunes....

but then again... what do I know?

 

That's a true statement. Randy always was a unichip man. My previous MINI had his Unichip tune on it. Maybe Randy can chime in if he's still around. I haven't seen or heard from him on NAM in ages since he went back to United.

 

PGT is right, I did not say that at ALL.

I do trust Randy Webb, he is a great guy and is the reason why we have most of our How-To's. His Mini was insane and he did quite well. What he used for tuning is unknown to me. Before Jan came along(which has been the most beneficial happening to the Mini community since the invention of the wheel) Randy Webb was "The Man."

I am skeptical of Gintani because of their inherent ability to produce the facts to back their statements. If you can show me the data that Randy created then I will be more open minded.

I know Gintani "needs time"...but if you make a claim back it up in a reasonable amount of time. All the other vendors DO.

I will be eager to see the data.

Chris.

 

You guys are stirrin stirrin stirrin....

The above is completely false you are misleading everyone as usual.

Randy for a period of time did not do unichip. Unichip was the latter when he decided he wanted to do tuning on his own. Keep your assumptions to yourself I wouldnt put Randy in this to make up a story. Wanna find out call him.

I wouldnt expect you to know this info Jan your werent around at the time.