What's important here is the DYNO!!!

 

um, that's why I said "The real question is whether or not your dealer would care or have a problem with the ECU reflash" Sheesh. Some dealers throw a hissy if you install a drop in K&N filter, some couldn't give 2 craps if you install an aftermarket turbo.

Holy jeebus, nevermind dude. I have no qualm with the GIAC, I was simply answering a question by n1tr0 as to whether or not it would or COULD be detectable by the dealer.

Let's effin' drop it already, huh pal?

 

Jeeze rattmobbins you're such a GIAC hater. WTF! :p

 

I know, I know. I should have gotten a vanity plate that says H8R 4 LIF. LOL!

 

Sounds very impressive Eric! I'm really pleased GIAC has done the R56 flash in a timely fashion.

More important than just the dyno, are the basic details of the flash:

*Redline change?
*DSC/TSC/DBW mapping change?
*Sport button change?
*Overboost mode delete or change?
*Rationalization of AFR in stratified and normal combustion modes
*Boost curve versus load, RPM, Sport button, and DBW position deltas over time
*Ignition timing changes and how aggressively the flash rely's on the knock sensor

All these details worked out will create a better driving and performing R56 would be fantastic and would ensure the GIAC flash would be a total R56 MCS success.

For what it's worth, I found the R56 to be amazingly easy to dyno consistently. When IAT, ECT, environmental, and DBW behavior are kept consistent between runs the dyno plots practically overlay themselves. Uber impressive compared to the R53.

I look forward to hearing more about the GIAC!
Cheers,
Ryan

 

no problem pal. i don't even mind that you still haven't answered the question.....
i just don't think its fair to people like n1tr0 or anyone else looking to understand ecu tuning.....and then to give them wrong information.....
but then again I may be wrong....just wanted to get your take on it....thats all.


and Ryephile...thanks for putting it back on topic.

I'm also interested in how it works with ignition timing and knock sensors....and how the DI responds.

 

The dealer never cares as long as they're making money, I work for one (and I've worked for VW as well). Now if a warranty claim comes up where the tech has a problem & needs to call the factory tech line or it's a job they're going to lose time on, then it becomes an issue.
If you're going to show up at the dealership for warranty work with visible/detectable mods, you should make sure you're on good terms with your service writer/service manager/etc ..
a box of donuts or such can go a long way (assuming they make it back to the shop)

back to my original question, I'd like to know if the GIAC map changes are actually detectable by Mini's scan-tools ?
eg. on a VAG it shows up all the time as you're accessing any of the ecu functions as an unknown software revision, plus the dealer coding, etc is all wrong .. On Saab, the only time you see the ecm software version/calibration revisions is when you do a SPS/software update.
So I'd like to know from the source if the GIAC shows up when Mini/BMW is doing regular diag work.

 

I'm not yet sure if it shows up on the dealership tools. The Siemens DMEs from the R53s had a flash counter that would limit the complete re-writes that the old factory GT1 tools would do. When we flashed GIAC onto the cars, only certain maps would be changed, and thus not effect the DME's flash counter. The R56 has the newer and much more sophisticated Bosch MED17 DME. For a number of reasons, the GIAC for this DME will be a complete re-write of the factory file. If MINI still uses the counter function, as they did with the old Siemens units, then they will be able to see that the code has been re-written. My guess is that it Bosch doesn't use the counter because they have MUCH better securty (like bank level encryption) for tools that read and write to the DME.

Here are some responses to other questions about the GIAC tuning file for the R56:

-GIAC can easily change redline. We didn't on my car because the cars are losing power that high in the rev range, so there was no point. If people really want it, they can do it.

-GIAC has not looked at DSC mapping or sport button changes.

-The Overboost mode is neither deleted nor changed, just overridden. The GIAC raises the boost to a point that overboost mode does not come into play, and because the torque lookup tables are also moidified, the car never goes into overboost mode, it just runs higher boost all the time.

-Like GIAC on other FSI cars, the software will run lambda 1 or leaner during part throttle cruise, just as the stock software does. GIAC does not run lambda 1 at full throttle, but more aggressive fuelling so as not to poison the cats. Under normal driving, it's stock fuel mixtures.

-Timing is way different on these cars compared to the R53s. The changes that have been made are extemely minimal and don't rely on unusual knock sensor activity to reign in some crazy aggressive map.

 

Thanks! What boost levels do you expect (ballpark)? I plan to buy a boost gauge and want to make sure I have the correct upper limit range. (i.e. Do I need at least 20 psi? 25? 30?

 

Most likely will be at 20 or right below, but If I were you I would get one that measures 30. Just in case you take care of internals and drop in a bigger turbo later on

 

Very good! In effect it sounds like you've bypassed Overboost, which IMO is a good thing. No more search-and-destroy games with "am I in overboost?"!

I would like to see some DBW linearization and TCS threshold reduction written in; that would just sweeten the drink that much more.

I look forward to the release!
Cheers,
Ryan

 

Get that thing on the Dyno yet?

Remember to PM me when you're ready. My crew is scheduling out the coming months.

 

n00b question: is there any risk of a "virus" or "corruption" of a flash? is there that small chance that it screws up and you lose the flash? in that small chance, is it possible to just reflash to the GIAC or stock map?

Gotta learn somehow. Thanks!

 

LOL [I gotta chuckle cuz I'm in the automotive electronics industry], Automotive ECU's are not like PC's in that they have vulnerable OS's with flaky overclocked hardware. Automotive ECU's are some of the most rigorously tested and battle tested pieces of electronics this side of aeronautics stuff. The whole ECU program code is very tiny; less than a MB in most cases, and it's esoteric code specific to that module. The microcontrollers' flash memory is extremely stable and extremely reliable [not just very reliable, extremely reliable]. They simply just do not get corrupted unless something very very bad has happened.

To get GIAC and stock maps loaded, you'll need the GIAC and factory flash tools, respectively. That's it!

 

I had to troubleshoot a Ford EEC IV computer failure that opened all 8 of the 24 lb/hr injectors full time ! It was definitely not a virus, rather an internal failure of the PCM. The engine was drained of the oil/gas mixture in the oil pan, the batteries (all 5, don't ask) were disconnected, and when we received the vehicle three days later we were still able to get over two gallons of gas out of the oil pan. It was running out of the exhaust and the air cleaner. (This was one of my favorite failures I've seen.)

The computer can fail internally, but you're not going to get a virus or anything of that sort.

 

Thanks. My teachers always told me there's no such thing as a stupid question, haha. And for the record, I gotta chuckle because I bet you don't know a damn thing about Primary Sclerosing Cholangitis! So ha! ... ...

 

Too true! I had to Google that to even have a clue what you were talking about! Uncle, Uncle!

 

Sorry. I'm a med student...we have bad senses of humor.

But another question: what's the lowdown on flashloaders? Are they cheap? Is it recommended to purchase one? Do they serve any purpose besides being able to remove your map before going into the dealer? Can someone that asks questions like these use one easily? Thanks!

 

I am a Paramedic and you had me on that one too!

Now for some more silly questions.

If this tool is available at a reasonable price to the consumer is it possible to have the tune loaded and shipped to australia?

Would it then be able to be loaded on the car in australia and checked on a dyno here to ensure that it is all running ok? If so would it possible for the readings to be sent back to the US to ensure that it is performing as it should?

Finally, are these tunes available for Australian R56's (no MAF) and would the performance be that good that it is worth the expense over my current JCW?

Enough silly questions from down under, thanks.

 

The flashloader for GIAC will be provided as a rental by your vendor [Helix in this case]. You flash your car by pushing "the big red button", then send it back to Helix.

To get the stock program back on the car, you have to own a MINI dealership to get the hardware to upload the software!

 

So it isn't worth doing until you are out of warranty?

 

that is a very strange way of doing it. When I had my WRX's I had a similar box from Cobb...the Accessport. You actually owned the box. When you went to flash your ECU it took a copy of the current software so you could revert back to stock. You would then flash a base map of your choice and then you had the option of quick flashes that, on the fly, change it to econ, valet, race, etc....

 

My 2005 mustang gt was the exact same way. It was so simple and it cost 349.00 for the tuner. I never had any issue in the 2 years I owned it.

 

In the beginning (VW 1600 E with Bosch Jetronic FI was the first that I know of??) it was an analogue computer. Following that, computer firmware was Read Only Memory, and you'd need to change out the whole computer to change the software, so noone did. Instead, tuners ditched the computer and strapped on carburetors (remember those? )

Then tuners invented ways of screwing with sensors to fool the primative programs in the primative ECUs. They could dupe the computer into reacting in untrained ways with smoke and mirrors.

Then came drop in socketed ROMs, leaving an avenue of software updating for manufacturers with a chip change. This meant a tuner could reverse engineer a ROM, devise their own evil twin, and ship it to a consumer who could take the time to swap it in and out as needed with the original.

That led to switched banks for the original and the evil twin without having to do more than turn car off and flick a switch.

As more consumer electronics grew into the habit of evolving firmware which could be updated over the life of the product (think PC bios), auto manufacturers became smitten with the idea of using these EPROMs, and finally EEPROMs, which meant all the devises stayed put, but the programs in them could be updated. Just as this created a wild storm of perfect-the-software-after-the-product-is-shipped in the computer industry, some manufacturers have used it as an avenue to correct flaws in the shipped design that are detected after a broad base of owners are using the car in the real world with a variety of fuel mixes, altitudes, climate conditions, and driving habits.

Chipping cars became a little more accessible to many at this point, and the chip was now often rewritten via a single purpose device that you'd hook up to a port on your car and say, "swap the original program with the evil twin". This evolved into that same device allowing you to swap it back, and now Average Joe had a secret he could hide from his wife, his friends, and most importantly, his service manager who handles warranty work. Even his SCCA class competitors wouldn't know what Joe was smiling about on that Saturday morning.

The custom tuning of these EEPROMs were the domain of dealers with sophisticated setups, but geeks being geeks, applications were made that would allow folks insight into the mappings of the EEPROM with a laptop and ultimately allow them to change them. First dyno shops and tuners, then 16 year olds in their driveway. This type of tuning simplified the tuning to adjusting values for a variety of conditions, without having to write any software. Software engineers have long appreciated the concept of separating the actions of a program from the values needed to dictate those actions, so this was a nice opening for the unwashed masses to "see" inside their ECU's thought process and adjust to unsafe(er) territories. Just as importantly, it gave them a way to adapt the ECU major modifications they'd made to the motor itself or the induction or exhaust. Cool huh?

This angered the ECU gods, and scared the manufacturers. If 16 year olds could overboost their cars in their driveways, blow them up, then cover up all traces and expect a new engine.... How could the manufacturer deal with this problem once and for all?

Just as the entertainment industry, and software industry decided that piracy was something worth guarding against, the ECU manufacturers decided it was time to try to regain control of their devices and the R56 has a less-than-easy-to-hack ECU. But, as always, this was not a permanent solution, and folks have found a way.

^I hope most of that was right^ (Ryan??) but all of this is to say, don't expect a hand-held $250 swappable programming module this soon for the R56. I'm sure it could happen eventually, but the security imposed on the new ECU has probably made it a bit harder to put the power in the consumer's hand to swap at will with a simple device.

 

well written & pretty much spot on there Karl.

a few extra bits, most modern ecu's datas are encrypted with some sort of security key, tied to a serial number or VIN, which is why kits like the JCW have to be ordered car specific.

It's annoying, but it also makes it more profitable/encouraging for real commercial professionals to get in on developing kits as they don't have to worry about piracy/sharing as much.

Ideally a windows based application and usb to dlc connector can make for a really inexpensive flash loader. How many enthusiasts don't have (or at least have a friend with) a laptop ?