Drivetrain Back by Popular Demand: Jan at Helix in Jan.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Maryland
You're right Dan. Sorry.
6th Gear
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From: NJerz
Hornguys - those are valid points to consider. No doubt RMW will have answers to them, and probably valid ones. It will be interesting to see their (and their customers') responses to your post which states an opposing opinion with reasons to back it up. An angry response will tell us one thing, while a respectful response will tell us another (fingers crossed).
I am interested to learn more about the RMW tune since a 15% pulley and tune will be my only drivetrain mods for a long time (me likey suspension). I tried to get some specific info. from RMW, but I'm sure their inbox is full. I should call to better decide between the options.
This is the point in a thread where it can go south and people will start attacking Hornguys' post. I wonder if the points he raises are better suited to a separate thread comparing/contrasting the LDG and RMW tunes... Neverheless, someone brought up LDG, so he answered the call.
Sounds like the tune day is going to be beyond successful.
mb
I am interested to learn more about the RMW tune since a 15% pulley and tune will be my only drivetrain mods for a long time (me likey suspension). I tried to get some specific info. from RMW, but I'm sure their inbox is full. I should call to better decide between the options.
This is the point in a thread where it can go south and people will start attacking Hornguys' post. I wonder if the points he raises are better suited to a separate thread comparing/contrasting the LDG and RMW tunes... Neverheless, someone brought up LDG, so he answered the call.
Sounds like the tune day is going to be beyond successful.
mb
please, take the LDG junk out of this thread.....this shouldn't be an RMW vs. LDG debate. LDG isn't a vendor here any more, by choice. If you want an LDG tune, nothing is stopping you. those of us paying Jan understand the pros/cons of doing so. some of us also have dealt with LDG, so it's not as if we're blind.
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Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: @ HELIX
Most of the cars will probably be on the dyno for 1 hr. BUT the cars will be on the dyno no more than 2 hrs
All Pm's have been replied to (finally!
)
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Cumming, GA
Although I have the LDG tune, I think the RMW is a good choice for someone who wants to go beyond what are more expensive options like the Unichip.
The RMW is half the price (and that's without dyno tuning of the Unchip), with twice the performance. I ought to know, I had TWO Unichips with numerous custom dyno tunes from different Unichip authorized tuners, and these were after so-called specific maps from Unichip for both units.
It's instructive to consider the difference in capabilities with RMW & LDG, and the resulting pricing.
IMO, both are the best options out there. Just depends on whether folks are stretching financially to get the RMW flash w/adjustments, or they want to go farther with the LDG full custom tune.
Not everyone is compulsive enough to drive from Atlanta to MD. So the other thing in favor of RMW is that you can get his customized flash at a location nearer to you.
Hope that's reasonable enough for even the most rabid RMW fans. There's room for both.
The RMW is half the price (and that's without dyno tuning of the Unchip), with twice the performance. I ought to know, I had TWO Unichips with numerous custom dyno tunes from different Unichip authorized tuners, and these were after so-called specific maps from Unichip for both units.
It's instructive to consider the difference in capabilities with RMW & LDG, and the resulting pricing.
IMO, both are the best options out there. Just depends on whether folks are stretching financially to get the RMW flash w/adjustments, or they want to go farther with the LDG full custom tune.
Not everyone is compulsive enough to drive from Atlanta to MD. So the other thing in favor of RMW is that you can get his customized flash at a location nearer to you.
Hope that's reasonable enough for even the most rabid RMW fans. There's room for both.
Jan doesn't own and maintain a dyno.
He doesn't own a full-service facility, capable of taking care of related issues on the spot. He doesn't stock parts like plugs, belts, filters, etc.
RMW didn't pay for an authorized version of the Dimsport from the US distributor. So once again, his operating costs are significantly less. Hence a lower price.
Careful Jim,
you are being misled by LDG again
We stock all kinds of parts.... we actually have 2 locations now. One is our fabrication shop and I am working out a deal for a full time shop with our own dyno.
All our maint is done at MiniCorsa where it is a full time maint shop. Stop trying to mislead people with your LDG bias.
For the software..... I HAVE A LIC. copy of the software. It was sold directly from Gabe.... stop spreading MISINFORMATION to suit your agenda.
Last edited by Revolution Mini Works; Dec 3, 2007 at 08:17 AM. Reason: spelling
5th Gear
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From: Cumming, GA
Sorry, Jan.
My observation may have been incorrect. I saw Way prepping the cars. He sold and installed the parts. I was unaware that you had parts on hand, probably because Way asked me if I had a spare belt.
I may come across as a LDG groupie to you, because of your very natural competitive business style, which is admirable. But I'm not. I've always, from the beginning, told things as fairly and openly as possible.
You do NOT have the expense of owning and maintaining a dyno, and the US distributor would take exception with your statement about the Dimsport. This affects what you have to charge.
Bottom line is that you are helping lots of folks with an affordable customized flash.
Is that better?
Oh, and good luck to all with your dyno days. I didn't mean for this to go south with RMW defenders posting, when I was pointing out straightforward facts about the differences between a quick customized flash and a thorough custom tune..
My observation may have been incorrect. I saw Way prepping the cars. He sold and installed the parts. I was unaware that you had parts on hand, probably because Way asked me if I had a spare belt.
I may come across as a LDG groupie to you, because of your very natural competitive business style, which is admirable. But I'm not. I've always, from the beginning, told things as fairly and openly as possible.
You do NOT have the expense of owning and maintaining a dyno, and the US distributor would take exception with your statement about the Dimsport. This affects what you have to charge.
Bottom line is that you are helping lots of folks with an affordable customized flash.
Is that better?
Oh, and good luck to all with your dyno days. I didn't mean for this to go south with RMW defenders posting, when I was pointing out straightforward facts about the differences between a quick customized flash and a thorough custom tune..
no, but Helix does and we're paying for that. your point is what now?
start another thread and take the debate there, please. this is the third time I've asked.
start another thread and take the debate there, please. this is the third time I've asked.
Sorry, Jan.
My observation may have been incorrect. I saw Way prepping the cars. He sold and installed the parts. I was unaware that you had parts on hand, probably because Way asked me if I had a spare belt.
You do NOT have the expense of owning and maintaining a dyno, and the US distributor would take exception with your statement about the Dimsport. This affects what you have to charge.
Is that better?
.
My observation may have been incorrect. I saw Way prepping the cars. He sold and installed the parts. I was unaware that you had parts on hand, probably because Way asked me if I had a spare belt.
You do NOT have the expense of owning and maintaining a dyno, and the US distributor would take exception with your statement about the Dimsport. This affects what you have to charge.
Is that better?
.
the whole point of Way being there was for him to check the cars and repair them while I was tuning. Why would I bring parts from California when Way is trying to make a living selling parts and labor?
for the 100th time... I OWN a LIC copy of Dimsport... infact I was just talking to them 5min ago , this smear campaign by the LDG folks is getting silly.
It looks like the people of NAM have spoken, they want me to come to their area to get treated with respect. It doesn't seem that has been the case previously.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Cumming, GA
But I agree with you. No need to discuss it any further.
North American Motoring :: Founder
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Colorado
Regarding all the back and forth with hornguys...
If people are interested in RMW's tunes then let them discuss that. If you aren't interested in RMW's products/tunes then move on.
If you are interested in LDG's products/tunes then start another thread. If fans of RMW's tunes come in there then I'll ask them the same thing I'm asking here. Move on and let those interested in each vendor discuss things among themselves.
Mark
If people are interested in RMW's tunes then let them discuss that. If you aren't interested in RMW's products/tunes then move on.
If you are interested in LDG's products/tunes then start another thread. If fans of RMW's tunes come in there then I'll ask them the same thing I'm asking here. Move on and let those interested in each vendor discuss things among themselves.
Mark
Regarding all the back and forth with hornguys...
If people are interested in RMW's tunes then let them discuss that. If you aren't interested in RMW's products/tunes then move on.
If you are interested in LDG's products/tunes then start another thread. If fans of RMW's tunes come in there then I'll ask them the same thing I'm asking here. Move on and let those interested in each vendor discuss things among themselves.
Mark
If people are interested in RMW's tunes then let them discuss that. If you aren't interested in RMW's products/tunes then move on.
If you are interested in LDG's products/tunes then start another thread. If fans of RMW's tunes come in there then I'll ask them the same thing I'm asking here. Move on and let those interested in each vendor discuss things among themselves.
Mark
thank you
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,398
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From: Orange County, NY
Sure, Myself and Jeffc are going down (we live about 5 miles from each other) im sure we could find a place to meet up and convoy down
Let me know
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Orange County, NY
Also back on the RMW,
With this tune I have wanted to do 380cc injectors and a obx header. First and formost could i have those installed before the tune? Second, What would be the likely advantages?? Furthermore, What are some other mods that might help? Dt bypass valve?
thank you, Dan
With this tune I have wanted to do 380cc injectors and a obx header. First and formost could i have those installed before the tune? Second, What would be the likely advantages??
Furthermore, What are some other mods that might help? Dt bypass valve?thank you, Dan
Last edited by MiniStupidfun; Dec 3, 2007 at 10:14 AM.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2005
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From: Los Angeles
I think I can see why there is a difference in approaches.
I think these differences are pretty straightforward and offer clear choices.
Jan doesn't own and maintain a dyno.
He doesn't own a full-service facility, capable of taking care of related issues on the spot. He doesn't stock parts like plugs, belts, filters, etc.
Frankly, he doesn't have time to address those issues on a tightly scheduled dyno day. That's why Way was so invaluable at the Atlanta event. Even so, Way ran out of spare belts and I happened to have one for one of the participants, or he would not have been able to participate.
RMW didn't pay for an authorized version of the Dimsport from the US distributor. So once again, his operating costs are significantly less. Hence a lower price.
Remote tunes like RMW does are very good, but they simply cannot compare to a thorough tune when time isn't an issue (6-8 tunes in one day simply cannot be thorough).
There are several variables to overcome that a full-time location with everything in place doesn't have. Valuable dyno time isn't lost while simply getting ready with 6-8 folks standing around. Thus there's really little or no time for him to get in a car for an initial test drive, then after the initial tune take a test drive, note where improvemenents could be made, come back and introduce them, go back out to see if that took care of it, etc.
I never observed him spending time refining the tune, because he simply did not have the time.
So price is an issue. The RMW tune represents excellent value from what I've seen. It's basically a flash with some quick specific-to that-car adjustments. This is way better than any other technique out there, except for a LDG tune, which will cost a bit more simply because it's much more thorough, and it's conducted on his dyno, which he owns, in his facility, which he owns, on the latest Dimsport software.
The LDG tune is for those who want the best and are willing to pay more. When you consider an extra $80-$100 for the dyno rental, that puts the RMW tune at $430-450. The LDG tune is a slightly more expensive option which may or may not be the choice for those who want something better than stock, JCW, MTH, GIAC, Unichip, etc.
I think these differences are pretty straightforward and offer clear choices.
Jan doesn't own and maintain a dyno.
He doesn't own a full-service facility, capable of taking care of related issues on the spot. He doesn't stock parts like plugs, belts, filters, etc.
Frankly, he doesn't have time to address those issues on a tightly scheduled dyno day. That's why Way was so invaluable at the Atlanta event. Even so, Way ran out of spare belts and I happened to have one for one of the participants, or he would not have been able to participate.
RMW didn't pay for an authorized version of the Dimsport from the US distributor. So once again, his operating costs are significantly less. Hence a lower price.
Remote tunes like RMW does are very good, but they simply cannot compare to a thorough tune when time isn't an issue (6-8 tunes in one day simply cannot be thorough).
There are several variables to overcome that a full-time location with everything in place doesn't have. Valuable dyno time isn't lost while simply getting ready with 6-8 folks standing around. Thus there's really little or no time for him to get in a car for an initial test drive, then after the initial tune take a test drive, note where improvemenents could be made, come back and introduce them, go back out to see if that took care of it, etc.
I never observed him spending time refining the tune, because he simply did not have the time.
So price is an issue. The RMW tune represents excellent value from what I've seen. It's basically a flash with some quick specific-to that-car adjustments. This is way better than any other technique out there, except for a LDG tune, which will cost a bit more simply because it's much more thorough, and it's conducted on his dyno, which he owns, in his facility, which he owns, on the latest Dimsport software.
The LDG tune is for those who want the best and are willing to pay more. When you consider an extra $80-$100 for the dyno rental, that puts the RMW tune at $430-450. The LDG tune is a slightly more expensive option which may or may not be the choice for those who want something better than stock, JCW, MTH, GIAC, Unichip, etc.
Also back on the RMW,
With this tune I have wanted to do 380cc injectors and a obx header. First and formost could i have those installed before the tune? Second, What would be the likely advantages?? Furthermore, What are some other mods that might help? Dt bypass valve?
thank you, Dan
With this tune I have wanted to do 380cc injectors and a obx header. First and formost could i have those installed before the tune? Second, What would be the likely advantages??
Furthermore, What are some other mods that might help? Dt bypass valve?thank you, Dan
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: NJerz
Are you really offended? Burn the books, Montag!
Sounds like you had an amazing experience, as have many others, and as many will have at the upcoming date - no need to be offended.
mb
Sounds like you had an amazing experience, as have many others, and as many will have at the upcoming date - no need to be offended.mb
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 716
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From: Cumming, GA
I am offended by these comments. Last week Danny (Mini Corsa), who works with Jan installed a correct size SC pulley belt, upgraded by injectors to JCW 380s, and did a complete inspection of the car including assuring proper spark plug torque settings. Jan spent two hours tuning my MINI on a Dynapack Chasis Dynamometer meticulously refining the tune. I am obsessive about my car and Danny (Mini Corsa) and Jan's attention to detail is awesome. Anyone who thinks that Jan's tuning is not thorough should spend some time watching him tune a MINI.
Last edited by hornguys; Dec 3, 2007 at 04:39 PM.
Funny what passes for facts. Maybe they are "facts" as you've been told? Frankly, it's just your opinion to assert that Jan's tune is only a "customized flash" vs the LDG "custom tune", IMO.