Drivetrain Back by Popular Demand: Jan at Helix in Jan.
U gotta be kiddin me...
So far it has only been you and PGT that seem to find an agenda for me posting here.
Have no clue why I should be 'disqualified in posting here. The questions I posted are sincere and I only want to understand how this all really works.
Why would I have to think of defending why I post on certain threads.??
So far it has only been you and PGT that seem to find an agenda for me posting here.
Have no clue why I should be 'disqualified in posting here. The questions I posted are sincere and I only want to understand how this all really works.
Why would I have to think of defending why I post on certain threads.??
Longboard
Just got in from my tune today, wanted to thank Jan Eric and Ralph for their work today, my ride home was very fun and would have been faster if it wasnt for traffic in NY. Very happy with my results.
192whp
176 lb ft
-Greg
192whp
176 lb ft
-Greg
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,362
Likes: 1
From: Winston-Salem, NC
This fact , along with how cold it is during these dynos and tuning, I'm wondering how these cars will survive during the warmer spring and hotter summer months. Will the ECU try and override all this tuning? Or will these cars be running with very cold, dense air performance tunes during the hot light air in summer. Will they be OK because as the mixture becomes rich?
Would be interesting to see some of these cars run the same dyno in the summer and see what's up then.
Would be interesting to see some of these cars run the same dyno in the summer and see what's up then.
my car was tuned by jan in brisk 45-50 degree weather. FWIW jan told me my final map is very similar to the map he runs on his cars out west with 91 octane and 90 degree temps.
my car seems to run great weather it's 30 degrees or 80 degrees.
my car seems to run great weather it's 30 degrees or 80 degrees.
I just got the RMW tune last evening, and the results exceeded all expectations, even in view of the tremendous reports earlier in this thread!! 
So here's the story. I was lucky to get on the dyno within about 10 min of arriving at Helix, but as a result the engine was still hot from the drive up. First pull netted a peak 186 whp/~190 ft-lb, which Jan thought was strong for the mods. Luckily, Jan knows the importance of getting a good baseline before making changes, so he let the fans cool the engine before the 2nd baseline: 205whp/202 ft-lb
. This is only with the 19%, JCW 380s, HAI, OBX header - Skunk-2 catback (like the Inivdia). STOCK tune. Even though my car is an '05, it was a 12/04 build and the software loaded at the factory was actually '04 software (Jan could tell).
Even with these results, the engine operation was far from optimal. AFR got very lean, 13-14, in a couple places. Specifically, just as the BPV closed around 2800rpm the AFR jumped up until the EMS got the info from the O2 sensor to add fuel. And, in the 4500+ range it leaned out as well. I was a bit surprised to see this, because I figured with the 380s and no tune the engine would tend to be on the rich side. I am very very glad I went to the 380s when I switched from a 15% to 19%, because another guy there had burned a valve running a 16/2 combo with 330s and Unichip. Another sign of the sub-optimal engine tune was the big puffs of black smoke that seemed to coincide with the knock sensor kicking in.
Jan methodically worked out the problems, and the end result is below: 218whp/209 ft-lb. 
AFRs totally safe, very little black smoke. Eric took it out for a spin, and the sound was freakin' awesome to hear echoing back from a few blocks away. Eric comes back with a grin on his face saying "this car is sick...". High praise, I think.
The dyno plot, however, really doesn't tell the story of how incredibly much better this car drives. From a standstill, this car now literally picks up and flies, almost effortlessly. Not that I ever had real problems with surging/bogging/flat spot, but now it just blows past that problematic 2500-3000 range without blinking an eye. Don't even get me started talking about the upper rpm range -- this thing revs so freely and eagerly now that controlling my speed on public roads takes enormous willpower.
There were some theories advanced on why the car pulled so strong. One is the HAI is a superior intake, at least on the dyno. Possibly, the guys in Oxfordshire or wherever Minis are built won their soccer match the nite before. Another thought is that maybe, just maybe, all those people who post over and over on NAM that anything greater than a 15% pulley makes hot air and no more power are ... how can I put this .... mis-informed?
So here's the story. I was lucky to get on the dyno within about 10 min of arriving at Helix, but as a result the engine was still hot from the drive up. First pull netted a peak 186 whp/~190 ft-lb, which Jan thought was strong for the mods. Luckily, Jan knows the importance of getting a good baseline before making changes, so he let the fans cool the engine before the 2nd baseline: 205whp/202 ft-lb
. This is only with the 19%, JCW 380s, HAI, OBX header - Skunk-2 catback (like the Inivdia). STOCK tune. Even though my car is an '05, it was a 12/04 build and the software loaded at the factory was actually '04 software (Jan could tell).Even with these results, the engine operation was far from optimal. AFR got very lean, 13-14, in a couple places. Specifically, just as the BPV closed around 2800rpm the AFR jumped up until the EMS got the info from the O2 sensor to add fuel. And, in the 4500+ range it leaned out as well. I was a bit surprised to see this, because I figured with the 380s and no tune the engine would tend to be on the rich side. I am very very glad I went to the 380s when I switched from a 15% to 19%, because another guy there had burned a valve running a 16/2 combo with 330s and Unichip. Another sign of the sub-optimal engine tune was the big puffs of black smoke that seemed to coincide with the knock sensor kicking in.
Jan methodically worked out the problems, and the end result is below: 218whp/209 ft-lb.
AFRs totally safe, very little black smoke. Eric took it out for a spin, and the sound was freakin' awesome to hear echoing back from a few blocks away. Eric comes back with a grin on his face saying "this car is sick...". High praise, I think. The dyno plot, however, really doesn't tell the story of how incredibly much better this car drives. From a standstill, this car now literally picks up and flies, almost effortlessly. Not that I ever had real problems with surging/bogging/flat spot, but now it just blows past that problematic 2500-3000 range without blinking an eye. Don't even get me started talking about the upper rpm range -- this thing revs so freely and eagerly now that controlling my speed on public roads takes enormous willpower.
There were some theories advanced on why the car pulled so strong. One is the HAI is a superior intake, at least on the dyno. Possibly, the guys in Oxfordshire or wherever Minis are built won their soccer match the nite before. Another thought is that maybe, just maybe, all those people who post over and over on NAM that anything greater than a 15% pulley makes hot air and no more power are ... how can I put this .... mis-informed?
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Princeton, NJ
Deal. Anyone else want to play on the Helix dyno in July? If my tune is a mess then, I'll pay the dyno time. If its running just as good as it is now, you pay the dyno time. Thoughts?
very nice numbers!! I'm hoping to get my torque up to that range....even if we don't make more than the previous 233hp, I'm ok with that if the curve shifts to the left a bit as well. given the minimal time we had last week and the dyno being more useful for tuning this week, we'll see how it goes.
Your TQ is amazing giving the mods on your. One thing I want to point out is how different each car's power is. There has been allot of debate over the "stock" power output from the factory. This huge tuning party shows once again that even though we all have the same motor from the factory we don't all have the same power.
Some are stronger than others. Some a lot stronger!
Longboard
I'm hoping to get my car tuned tomorrow, but I don't get out of work until 7. Was down there 2 times already and couldn't get my car tuned. I will be very sad if I miss out on another opportunity, and I won't know if I will ever have a chance in the near future.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 836
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
I just got the RMW tune last evening, and the results exceeded all expectations, even in view of the tremendous reports earlier in this thread!!
So here's the story. I was lucky to get on the dyno within about 10 min of arriving at Helix, but as a result the engine was still hot from the drive up. First pull netted a peak 186 whp/~190 ft-lb, which Jan thought was strong for the mods. Luckily, Jan knows the importance of getting a good baseline before making changes, so he let the fans cool the engine before the 2nd baseline: 205whp/202 ft-lb . This is only with the 19%, JCW 380s, HAI, OBX header - Skunk-2 catback (like the Inivdia). STOCK tune. Even though my car is an '05, it was a 12/04 build and the software loaded at the factory was actually '04 software (Jan could tell).
Even with these results, the engine operation was far from optimal. AFR got very lean, 13-14, in a couple places. Specifically, just as the BPV closed around 2800rpm the AFR jumped up until the EMS got the info from the O2 sensor to add fuel. And, in the 4500+ range it leaned out as well. I was a bit surprised to see this, because I figured with the 380s and no tune the engine would tend to be on the rich side. I am very very glad I went to the 380s when I switched from a 15% to 19%, because another guy there had burned a valve running a 16/2 combo with 330s and Unichip. Another sign of the sub-optimal engine tune was the big puffs of black smoke that seemed to coincide with the knock sensor kicking in.
Jan methodically worked out the problems, and the end result is below: 218whp/209 ft-lb. AFRs totally safe, very little black smoke. Eric took it out for a spin, and the sound was freakin' awesome to hear echoing back from a few blocks away. Eric comes back with a grin on his face saying "this car is sick...". High praise, I think.
The dyno plot, however, really doesn't tell the story of how incredibly much better this car drives. From a standstill, this car now literally picks up and flies, almost effortlessly. Not that I ever had real problems with surging/bogging/flat spot, but now it just blows past that problematic 2500-3000 range without blinking an eye. Don't even get me started talking about the upper rpm range -- this thing revs so freely and eagerly now that controlling my speed on public roads takes enormous willpower.
There were some theories advanced on why the car pulled so strong. One is the HAI is a superior intake, at least on the dyno. Possibly, the guys in Oxfordshire or wherever Minis are built won their soccer match the nite before. Another thought is that maybe, just maybe, all those people who post over and over on NAM that anything greater than a 15% pulley makes hot air and no more power are ... how can I put this .... mis-informed?
So here's the story. I was lucky to get on the dyno within about 10 min of arriving at Helix, but as a result the engine was still hot from the drive up. First pull netted a peak 186 whp/~190 ft-lb, which Jan thought was strong for the mods. Luckily, Jan knows the importance of getting a good baseline before making changes, so he let the fans cool the engine before the 2nd baseline: 205whp/202 ft-lb
. This is only with the 19%, JCW 380s, HAI, OBX header - Skunk-2 catback (like the Inivdia). STOCK tune. Even though my car is an '05, it was a 12/04 build and the software loaded at the factory was actually '04 software (Jan could tell).Even with these results, the engine operation was far from optimal. AFR got very lean, 13-14, in a couple places. Specifically, just as the BPV closed around 2800rpm the AFR jumped up until the EMS got the info from the O2 sensor to add fuel. And, in the 4500+ range it leaned out as well. I was a bit surprised to see this, because I figured with the 380s and no tune the engine would tend to be on the rich side. I am very very glad I went to the 380s when I switched from a 15% to 19%, because another guy there had burned a valve running a 16/2 combo with 330s and Unichip. Another sign of the sub-optimal engine tune was the big puffs of black smoke that seemed to coincide with the knock sensor kicking in.
Jan methodically worked out the problems, and the end result is below: 218whp/209 ft-lb.
AFRs totally safe, very little black smoke. Eric took it out for a spin, and the sound was freakin' awesome to hear echoing back from a few blocks away. Eric comes back with a grin on his face saying "this car is sick...". High praise, I think. The dyno plot, however, really doesn't tell the story of how incredibly much better this car drives. From a standstill, this car now literally picks up and flies, almost effortlessly. Not that I ever had real problems with surging/bogging/flat spot, but now it just blows past that problematic 2500-3000 range without blinking an eye. Don't even get me started talking about the upper rpm range -- this thing revs so freely and eagerly now that controlling my speed on public roads takes enormous willpower.
There were some theories advanced on why the car pulled so strong. One is the HAI is a superior intake, at least on the dyno. Possibly, the guys in Oxfordshire or wherever Minis are built won their soccer match the nite before. Another thought is that maybe, just maybe, all those people who post over and over on NAM that anything greater than a 15% pulley makes hot air and no more power are ... how can I put this .... mis-informed?
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
From: MINIapolis
Like inimmini, my car's baseline dyno was oddly strong. But it took a looong time to tune as the numbers kept creeping down (even w/ tune). Jan was thorough and made sure I was getting repeatable results by the end of the day. 10+ dyno runs sounds about right. My "official" baseline was 185 whp / 188 lbs-tq. (Made late in the day after switching back to the stock maps ) FWIW, I had the car dynoed at Helix last spring, 188 / 171, with the only changes since being the 380cc injectors and a different cat-back.
I think onasled's question is fair. I'm wondering the same, and might re-dyno the car come summer. (Of course, on a different dyno the #s won't be directly comparable.. More interested in just making sure it's still making power / good AFRs.)
Anyways, the results are great, as everyone has already stated. My final peaks were 201 whp and 191 lbs-tq. A lot of torque made down low, and a lot of HP made up high.
15% pulley, intake, cat-back exhaust, and 380cc injectors. Head, schmead.
The other changes in Jan's tune have resulted in a much smoother drive. It does feel like a new car. (Besides the nails-on-chalkboard swaybar bushing noise..) DSC less intrusive? Seems like it.
Car was running lean when cold, I was surprised at that. Fixed.
It's also running closer to its pre-injector MPG figures too. The 4.5hr trip down at 80mph avg. took 3/4 tank at 24mpg (OBC figure). Coming back it was 1/2 tank at 29mpg. (Used to run consistent low-30s all day long in the summer, hoping to see that again.)
Big thanks to Jan and Eric for freezing their nads off all day, and Ralph for being cheery and organizing. I've got 200 horsies at the wheels for about a grand invested. I'm done for now.
) FWIW, I had the car dynoed at Helix last spring, 188 / 171, with the only changes since being the 380cc injectors and a different cat-back.I think onasled's question is fair. I'm wondering the same, and might re-dyno the car come summer. (Of course, on a different dyno the #s won't be directly comparable.. More interested in just making sure it's still making power / good AFRs.)
Anyways, the results are great, as everyone has already stated. My final peaks were 201 whp and 191 lbs-tq. A lot of torque made down low, and a lot of HP made up high.
15% pulley, intake, cat-back exhaust, and 380cc injectors. Head, schmead.
The other changes in Jan's tune have resulted in a much smoother drive. It does feel like a new car. (Besides the nails-on-chalkboard swaybar bushing noise..) DSC less intrusive? Seems like it.
Car was running lean when cold, I was surprised at that. Fixed.
It's also running closer to its pre-injector MPG figures too. The 4.5hr trip down at 80mph avg. took 3/4 tank at 24mpg (OBC figure). Coming back it was 1/2 tank at 29mpg. (Used to run consistent low-30s all day long in the summer, hoping to see that again.)
Big thanks to Jan and Eric for freezing their nads off all day, and Ralph for being cheery and organizing. I've got 200 horsies at the wheels for about a grand invested. I'm done for now.
Last edited by RedSkunk; Jan 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Likes: 5
I'm with you, I had a really strong base as well.
They were thrown off for sure.
I'm running pretty similar mods to you:
15%, CAI, Cat Back, 380's; I ended up with 204whp & 194ft lbs of tq.
How was the ride home
seeing these numbers with basic mods makes me not feel that great about my 192hp/176tq with 15%, alta CAI, Alta header and catback, JCW 380's, alta TMIC. Any thoughts on why mine would come out so much lower or is it just a weak motor?
Congrats on the great numbers with your car. I think these are the best numbers I have seen posted for any car with "basic mods" (i.e., stock cam and head). I had my car tuned by Jan in December and also had amazing results. I have a 2005 MCS with a 15% pulley, CAI, JCW 380s and Milltek. My peak WHP and TQ were 219 and 193 respectively. My AFRs were good but did become lean between about 6500 and redline (7200) where they shot up to the high 12s. Even with the 380 injectors I was starting to run out of fuel at the top end. I was considering upgrading to 440 injectors but since I don't track the car and spend 99.9% of the time below 6500 rpm I decided to stick with the current amazing tune. What was your peak AFR at redline??
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
I feel the same way as motor03. My car is an 04 with the JCW engine package, 19% pulley, alta intake, 380cc Bosch injectors, WEBB catback exhaust, and a Detroit tuned bypass valve, and my car made 191hp and 191 torque. I see the 05 cars are pulling some good numbers with the same mods as my car but with the 15% pulley. Does it have anything to do with the LSD? I just figured my car should be at about 200-205whp with the JCW engine package from the factory and the mods that I listed. Any ideas?
the only thing that adds power to the JCW pkg that you have is the 19% pulley. You're about 20-30hp up on what bone stock JCW cars usually do on that dyno, if I remember right.
Just walked in from another long day.....16 hours door to door. Despite having a possibly bad O2 sensor, Jan did several runs with the wideband and was able to smooth things out, yet keep it conservative. 238hp/209tq. I'll scan the dyno plot in tomorrow and post....it's a bit higher HP than last week, but more importantly smoother and more torque.
I'm going to replace the O2 just to be sure and will get some local pulls with a/f data logged to be sure we're good to go, with Jan making any changes remotely if needed (since he's back to CA tomorrow and I can't afford another road trip to Philly if I want to avoid sleeping on the couch )
Just walked in from another long day.....16 hours door to door. Despite having a possibly bad O2 sensor, Jan did several runs with the wideband and was able to smooth things out, yet keep it conservative. 238hp/209tq. I'll scan the dyno plot in tomorrow and post....it's a bit higher HP than last week, but more importantly smoother and more torque.
I'm going to replace the O2 just to be sure and will get some local pulls with a/f data logged to be sure we're good to go, with Jan making any changes remotely if needed (since he's back to CA tomorrow and I can't afford another road trip to Philly if I want to avoid sleeping on the couch
)
the only thing that adds power to the JCW pkg that you have is the 19% pulley. You're about 20-30hp up on what bone stock JCW cars usually do on that dyno, if I remember right.
Just walked in from another long day.....16 hours door to door. Despite having a possibly bad O2 sensor, Jan did several runs with the wideband and was able to smooth things out, yet keep it conservative. 238hp/209tq. I'll scan the dyno plot in tomorrow and post....it's a bit higher HP than last week, but more importantly smoother and more torque.
I'm going to replace the O2 just to be sure and will get some local pulls with a/f data logged to be sure we're good to go, with Jan making any changes remotely if needed (since he's back to CA tomorrow and I can't afford another road trip to Philly if I want to avoid sleeping on the couch )
Just walked in from another long day.....16 hours door to door. Despite having a possibly bad O2 sensor, Jan did several runs with the wideband and was able to smooth things out, yet keep it conservative. 238hp/209tq. I'll scan the dyno plot in tomorrow and post....it's a bit higher HP than last week, but more importantly smoother and more torque.
I'm going to replace the O2 just to be sure and will get some local pulls with a/f data logged to be sure we're good to go, with Jan making any changes remotely if needed (since he's back to CA tomorrow and I can't afford another road trip to Philly if I want to avoid sleeping on the couch
)
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,911
Likes: 0
From: Ellicott City, MD
Just walked in from another long day.....16 hours door to door. Despite having a possibly bad O2 sensor, Jan did several runs with the wideband and was able to smooth things out, yet keep it conservative. 238hp/209tq. I'll scan the dyno plot in tomorrow and post....it's a bit higher HP than last week, but more importantly smoother and more torque.
Btw, I wish I could go up there with you today. I'd love to have Jan smooth out the small dip @ 5,800 rpm. Other than that the MINI run great.
Is your redline now at 7200 rpm?
How is Golden_Child doing?
