This was from a post several months ago, by Dr. O, regarding the M7 DFIC:

IT's optimized for thermal efficiency at the price of backpressure. So it's the cat's meow for street drivng, but starts to choke the engine of highly modified cars at high RPM. (Read racing on the track).

Is the DFIC better than the stock or GP IC for the street? Is the DFIC the best available IC for spirited street driving? (No WOT track driving).

 

For the street driving is absolutely the best choice water to air system.

 

If you read all of the IC threads - the conclusion is that the stock IC does an excellent job and it's better to direct the dollars to other mods from a performance perspective.

After you've done all other performance mods and if you still have burning dollars then upgrade your IC.

this is coming from someone that has had two after market ICs.

Really direct your $$ to another Hp/TQ mod.

 

I have heard the same about the stock IC.

 

I vote for stock. I'm dynoing at 230+ wheel HP on the stock IC. On the track at WOT in the corners I'm at 150+ degrees IAT, down the main straight it shoots down to about 90 (With 80 degree ambient temps).

An intercooler is a waste of money unless it's heatsoaking so bad it can't do anything anymore. For what it's worth Danny at MINI corsa was doing some testing of a water to air IC and his temps peaked at about 125º and stayed around there for the duration of the track session. The stock intercooler has some issues, but pressure drop and heat soak aren't them .

If you can get air to the intercooler (Read: Drive fast enough to flow air) it does a great job at managing heat soak.

I had the M7 DFIC with all the coatings and heat dispersing (Black? Since when does black anything "disperse") paint, etc. After one run on the dyno the IC was so hot it could fry an egg. It took 10 minutes of fans and spraying water to cool it down so it was cool enough to touch. The Alta DFIC is much better in this respect.

Still, the fact remains, the stock intercooler weighs about 1.2 lbs, how much do both the DFIC's weigh? ANY intercooler is going to heat soak. When yours does, would you rather have the one that weighs 9 lbs that takes 2-3 minutes of driving at 75+ to cool down or the one that weighs 1 lb that goes from 180 degrees to 12 degrees above ambient in 15 seconds.

I've done it, I monitor all the temps on my car diligently. WOT holding 8k RPM's at 14.1 PSI of boost my IAT's were 175-180 Degrees after 5-6 seconds of full throttle bouncing off the rev limiter, when I let off and shifted into 6th to cruise in vacuum it takes between 15 and 20 seconds to cool the temps down to 85-90 degrees. I suspect the time is actually less, but because of the OBD2 refresh rate it looks longer.

Recovery time is just as important as pressure drop and cooling capability. I'd rather have an intercooler that recovers in 30 seconds that doesn't cool quite as efficiently and has 5-10% higher output temps.

 

That's not necessarily true. Yes they cool well, but once the water is hot (Traffic?) it stays hot for a VERY long time. Again, it's all about recovery time. Water to air shines on the track where you have sustained periods of speed, on the street, unless you do mostly freeway driving (In which case the stock intercooler does the same thing) it's a waste of $1500 + Install (300-500).

For what it's worth, my stock intercooler cools BETTER than a top of the line water to air system on the freeway. Yes, you read that right, on the freeway my temps are lower than a water to air system. The difference is that the temps on water to air will never go as high as an air to air (Unless it's heat-soaked).

My temps range from 65 on a cool day cruising on the freeway all the way up to 170-180 at wide open throttle on the track when it's hot out. Water to air will sit around 90-100 most of the time, then go up to 130 when driven hard. In traffic though, it can go up to 120+ just sitting there, and it stays hot for quite a while.

Surprisingly the HP lost between those two numbers is negligible for street driving. 65 to 180 you're talking about 12-15 HP depending on what mods you have. A really really good intercooler is going to keep the car at about 130 during really hard driving. the 40-50 degree delta is 6-8 HP.

You decide, is 6 HP worth $1,000? Save your money, buy a head ($2600 with install) and you'll get 40 HP. Not to mention your IAT's will go down .

 

I must say that there seems to be more and more love for the stock MINI intercooler, and even more for the JCW GP intercooler. It seems like to get the optimal solution, get a larger opening hood scoop from m7 or others, and maybe even an ALTA intercooler air diverter.

Those to mods will get more air flowing over your MINI intercooler, providing the cheapest, yet best solution!

(No conclusive data on this, just pure bench-racing speculation)!

 

Maybe you have right, but all depends on that which intercooler do you have.

If there is enought water (most system for the mini does NOT have enough water in system) isn't actually so bad as you said.
And again it's important what radiator do you have. I have two (yes 2) of them to cooling hot water. Actually, there is no problem with hot water, maybe sometimes when I driving hard to one of Dolomits alps, but just to know, there is 2000 m heigh difference and 15 minutes of hard upward!

And 1000$ + 300$ for install? Be serious!

 

I don't know of any water to air systems for $1,000. The Gintani is almost $2,500 with all the gizmos, Madness is $1,550, And I forget the name of the IC that MINICORSA is running, but his was about $1,600. Unless you're fairly mechanically inclined expect to pay a mechanic for 3-5 hours of their time to dismantle your front end and run all the piping, so yes, $250-500 for install sounds about right depending on what your mechanic charges. I wouldn't do it for less than 4 hours labor, it's a pain in the ***.

It's true more water helps, but any system will heat soak, even if you have 10 gallons of water. in the US (Especially in LA) we're sitting in stop and go traffic every day for at least 20-30 minutes. The heat exchanger MINICORSA is running (The numbers I gave were from his car) is enormous. He had to remove his AC Radiator to fit it on the car, and slice his front bumper. Off the top of my head I don't know the measurements but 20" by 36" sounds like a good start.

You say there's no problem with hot water, but have you actually hooked up a gauge and monitored your post IC IAT's? Without data it means nothing. You're not likely to notice a 20-25 degree shift in inlet temps.

 

FWIW... I've got that alta diverter with the stock ic and absolutely love it.

 

Never tested it to see if it actually works, but the sprayer alone is nice to have, especially right before you shoot down the main straight at 120 MPH .

 

I've had a few aftermarket cores. GP with sprayer FTW

 

Where do you source your GP IC's? I think Jan was interested in getting a hold of a few. What sprayer do you use? Something you made custom?

 

Austria. Alta sprayer that Lynn from Motion MINI donated to me

 

One of the Ebay IC's?

I didn't think the Alta Sprayer would fit considering there are 2 extra cooling rows on the GP IC.

 

I don't think there's ever been any flow #'s that said the M7 scoop flows any better than stock. Sticking a big honkin opening out INTO the air stream vs mounting the same sized opening flush doesn't seem like it would help much. It may actually impede airflow depending on wind direction and velocity (If you think about it what you've effectively done is put an awning over the scoop, so no air can enter from above). I don't know enough about the dynamics of air movement to be of any more help. I'm just applying what I know about aerodynamics from flying .

 

yes, from ebay. it's just the sprayer nozzle on the GP cover/diverter

 

Ahh. Thanks.

 

I didn't pay so much for mine.

In city traffic is even better. When is hot I have ON my climate controle. The vent for it works all the time on red stops, if you have right radiators the same vent cooling down the water of my intercooler. Like I said. It's all depend on which system do you go.

With OEM intercooler my car was dead in city traffic at summer. Now is OK.
I do not need any other data.

Everyone has his own favourite here.
Bye

 

Dr. O - Do you still like the DFIC for the steeet?

 

Another vote for the GP IC.

 

I don't think there's been tested, objective #'s for a lot of products made by aftermarket vendors for the Mini. Seems like a lot of people like to go off of "hey, it looks like it should work...I'll write you the check," instead of "Hey, let's see some numbers." Intercoolers seem to be one area where nearly everyone gets taken...and for a lot.

Reason I'm sticking to the pulley, intake, and to be exhaust (along with a bunch of nice, comfortable interior things) until I decide to invest the proper amount of time and cash into a good matched system (head, cam, ECU) from RMW, LDG, DMH, Webb, etc.

Stock, or GP IC FTW.

- Matt

 

merely asking for this gets some vendors looking for some Maalox

 

its not out yet but i would have a look at what Jan is coming out with. also i think he is working on using this cooler for M45 cars.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...101440&page=26

alternatively go for water to air. it will hold temps better and as long as you spec the pre rads right you will get better cooling than a top mount.

thanks Chris.

 

Will stating those vendors result in my inability to post here further?



I do like a lot of the finishes on parts from "certain brands" though. The degree of OEM-ness fits well in my total design plans.

- Matt