This is all really helpful stuff, especially with the numbers included. Thanks for sharing These are the kinds of posts that really help people like me who wait and wait and wait to see actual benefits from perf. mods.

mb

 

I have the new DFIC 2 on my car and it does get hot but the pressure drop is gone (at least on my meter) The core design is different with more cooling surface, thinner elements and it is considerably lighter..... when i took the Unichip off the car I lost my ability to monitor temps..... I may stop by Waylons new shop in Atlanta and get something so I can report next week (no promises) the fact that tthe unit gets hot does not bother me in and of itself (convection cooling) but I do not have the rest of the pieces of the puzzle to make any kind of conclusion.

 

M7 does have numbers for their scoops, just go to their website. Use your intuition,the scoop does have a larger opening, it is in a more smooth unattached air flow. Put your hand close to the outside surface of your door at speed then lift its leading edge off a little bit, I think you'll see your hand is picking up more air.

 

http://m7tuning.com/techinfo/R&D/M7ScoopTemps.html

There's your data. Now you explain to me where it mentions ambient temps, airflow speed across surface (car speed), etc - testing conditions. That diagram and accompanied text only tell us three things: surface IC measured temperatures in various areas, stock IC was used, and new scoop was used for comparison. Nothing else is there. I can make a lot of positive assumptions about that diagram...I'd still like to know more though. Especially if I was about to drop ~$200 for a scoop.

This griping may seem trivial, but that's the difference between intuition and fact. Like I said in an earlier post...the NAM community seems to go off the thinking process of "That seems like a good idea...<wallet open>." IC's have proven inasmuch. Just apply some objective, critical thinking to all parts and you're good to go (easier said than done, but still).

Not knocking anyone in particular - my thoughts on this apply to all vendors/products. Just making a point about data needing to be in context/explained/substantiated.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming: The Best IC's for the street.

- Matt

 

I'm not following what you're trying to say. The air conditioning system has absolutely nothing to do with your intercooler. If you're using your AC Radiator to cool down the coolant from your W2A system, Uh... ya... don't know how to help you there, that's FAR from the most efficient way of doing things though.

Regardless of how hot the water is getting in your W2A system, your AC is still going to function normally. It gets up to 115+ here in Southern California, regardless of my inlet temperatures, my AC still works normally. The systems are interdependent of one another.

Like I said, it's great that you think it works, but those of us that are actually looking for a noticeable increase in power want numbers and quantitative data before we dump 2 grand on a system that offers a 7% decrease in inlet temps.

 

You're most welcome .

I'll be testing a few other intercooler designs in the near future and i'll be sure to post some results.

 

Here in CA ya gots ta keep it looking OEM or risk incurring the wrath of the smog *****. In that case, there there can be only one: GP IC.

 

Agreed... taking an IR Thermometer to the top of the stock IC doesn't mean a damn thing. Larger openings don't necessarily flow more air, in fact, it may hinder performance because it might reduce the overall pressure of the air entering the bonnet.

There are a lot more things to consider with aerodynamics than how big the hole is. There's a reason they don't take a 9 blade prop and stick it on the front of a Cessna 182. Yea, more blades means more air pushed, but at what cost? If the prop can't spin faster than 900 RPM's, it's not as efficient as a prop with 3 blades spinning at 3000 RPM's.

It's all marketing. Just because something LOOKS like it's a good idea, doesn't mean it isn't. You don't think MINI would have made the hood scoop bigger if they thought it needed it? Their scoop doesn't cost any more to manufacture than the MINI scoop.

I laugh when I see all this talk about ram air intakes for the new R56... sticking a scoop on the front of the car and putting a tube inline to the filter with air flowing into it doesn't make it ram air. Ram air is a very complicated balance of air pressure and box size. Not to mention it's COMPLETELY USELESS on a forced induction car.

It's ALL Marketing. But it's your money. Feel free to waste money on things that haven't been proven simply because it "Looks" like it might work. Sticking giant pieces of wood on your arms and flapping "looks" like it might have worked in the late 19th century, alas, there's a bit more to the principals of flight than moving air up and down quickly .

 

Plenty of ways around that . The new IC Jan is making will look stock, it's just 2.5 times as big .

 

Whatever man, I'll stick my 50% reduction pulley on my Mini, along with an intercooler as big as my radiator. A friend of a guy who knows somebody who worked on NASCAR one time says he did it to a Honda, so I think it'll work. I'll be running m4d booooost!

- Matt

 

I put a 150% reduction pulley on my car. I'm running 68 lbs of boost. I haven't dynoed my car yet but the butt dyno says i've gained about 200 HP .

 

what 2 grand ? Be serius.

If you paying too much for aftermarket stuff is your problem not mine. I pay less than for one alta's air to air system.

If you wanna alta, go with it.
But don't cry here how much expensive it is.

And yes, air conditioning has many to do with my intercooler. When I stop at red light the electric fan for AC cooling down the water of my IC too!
If you don't understand this it isn't my problem.

Even the water is a quite warmer then the air at the same moment water has 4 times more effect to cooling compare to air.
When you starting, you don't have any cooling. I have cooling even I am on stop. The water circulate all the time, the air on the standard intercooler DO NOT.

Do you have any times 1/4 with air to air and the water to air? How do you compare them.

Many threads is out which are talking about water to air is for street and air to air is for racing. Now you come with other theory. Maybe, but like I said I am very satisfied with mine. At summers car was dead, now it isn't. Isn't it that enough?

Outhere is many of water to air minis and all of us are satisfied. How? Do you have any explanation for that?

But, like I said. Everyone has his own favourite. If I compare my 1/4 times with those on mini2 I am not as bad as you think.

Bye

 

Wow.. just wow..

I'm not going to touch your spelling/grammar with a 1/4 mile long stick.

Nobody here is talking about quarter mile bursts, but yourself.

 

I just saw the rear vent for the DFIC..... gotta try it.....

this could change a lot

 

I compare them through intake temperatures. I'm not aware of a water to air intercooler for less than $1500. If you know of one, post it! In the US NO mechanic is going to install one of these for $100. A good mechanic would be able to do it in 3.5 hours or so. That's $300-350 depending on their rate. I've never heard of anyone getting a water to air intercooler in the US for less than 1600-1800 installed.

The coolant fan you're talking about kicks in when the coolant in the car gets hotter than ~220 degrees. It has nothing to do with air conditioning, or your intake temps.

I never said water to air was bad, I just said it's a complete waste of money unless you're going for the last 5% (And even then there are times that air to air recovers better).

Your example of sitting at a stop light isn't really accurate. It's not like sitting at a stop light i'm sucking in 200 degree air and yours is at 50 degrees. Your air isn't likely to be any cooler than mine simply because there's water cooling it. Once the water gets hot, it's not cooling anything anymore. If you're pumping 120 degree water through your intercooler, the IAT's are going to be at least that hot. Just because you have water cooling the air down instead of air doesn't mean it works better. It only works better if the water is cooler. For the water to be cooler, you have to be cooling the water down (Having air flowing over the radiator).

I've DONE real world testing with both, logged numbers, seen the effect hard driving has on temperatures (there's no place that's harder on an intercooler than road racing). I know how well a W2A works vs an A2A. I've had a water to air intercooler, and i've had 3 different air to air intercoolers.

It's true, water cools better, or rather, it's able to absorb more energy (Heat) but it also retains that heat much longer, for the same reason it cools things down better, it also takes longer to cool down.

I don't drag race my car, it's a front wheel drive hatchback, not a drag car. This car excels in the corners, not in a straight line (Buy a muscle car if you want to go fast in a straight line). I have no idea what I could run in a quarter mile. I've never tried, and I probably never will. I know how much power my car makes, and I know how much the same exact car makes with a water to air intercooler.

We've dynoed them both. The HP figures are negligible. I race my car on the track, and i've seen very little improvement by switching to a W2A IC. Making 230 wHP I still haven't found the stock intercooler to be the weak link. I don't know when it will be, but for now i'll save the money and use it on something that actually makes me some power.

It doesn't sound like english is your first language, and I don't mean to be rude, but it seriously sounds like we're having trouble communicating with one another.

I'm glad you like your intercooler, but honestly you haven't provided any hard data that it does anything, other than "It feels better".

Enjoy your car, if you like your intercooler, congrats on your purchase, but saying that it's superior in every way to any other intercooler is just ignorant without information to back that statement up.

 

Based off his previous posts (Sounds like he lives in Europe) i'm going to venture to say English probably isn't his first language. In which case his spelling and grammar skills are irrelevant.

In any event, how well he can form a sentence doesn't really affect his ability to pass on his opinion.

 

woah... some of these threads... especially one about intercoolers... deja vu

 

now I added something new with the DFIC2 and the rear vent

 

lol

 

I would like to see you guys write in Fisher native tounge , in fact how many off you have a passport

We've been here before Rusty, Fisher is using the 1/4 mile mph as his real world dyno.

Unless you have some real cool data acquisation it must be very hard to work out if you have made any horsepower improvements going round and round looking for the finish line:impatient

 

I know the prices for the water to air system. They are very expensive, but with some mechanical engineering knowledge you can do it for very low price.
I didn't know how much cost the one hour of mechanical in US, but like I see it's very expensive.
I would never buy a system for 1500-2000 USD, but I said you many of things on IC could you do by yourself if you aren't a cook.

About coolant fan we are talking. Stay on the hot day turn on a AC and go out. Looking at it. You will see how quick it's start.
Something must coolant a radiator of AC and for that radiator is the same coolant fan.

Where do you find all that intercoolers if you're talking they are waste of money? I am just curious.

Also I don't drag with others. But you can see how quick the car is with drag racing.
Don't worry I have many winding roads around me including Stelvia and Davos.
But like I said is a good to show how quick the car is. But if you don't want drag nobody will force you. I have bought the GTECH to compare new mods on the car.
It's very good.

English isn't my first language.
And for those who wanna be funy before you. How do you speak Slovenian? Do you know one single word?
Hah, I know you don't. :impatient

If I will have time in the summer I will try with the gtech with and without w2a.

No it isn't superior but in most conditions is better. In some others it's not. Like all others w2a compare to a2a. But some w2a has really to small radiator to cooling down water.

On the MINI i think is to small slot on the bonnet to real deal with air to air system.

 

Actually the AC Radiator is in the lower part of the bumper, it doesn't see a whole lot of air from the radiator fan (Thats why your AC gets warm at stop lights).

Unfortunately yes, W2A systems are very expensive in the US. I don't know anyone that's made one.

 

A transponder and OBD2 Datalogging software are plenty for tracking improvements.

I realize that you can track HP improvements through 1/4 mile times, but I prefer using a dyno.

Road racing is a lot more satisfying to me than 14 seconds of pedal on the floor in a straight line . Especially in a front wheel drive hatchback that gets absolutely no traction.

 

delam ne slišati se ali znanje a posamezen izraziti z besedami po Slovensko šele sem storil odkriti online prevod položaj

I hope that makes sense, it was done with an online translator.

 

excellent

OT but I am so thankful for the internet so we can have dialogue with people from all over the world.... why anyone would criticize people who are reaching out and contributing is beyond me..... I wish I had multiple languages at my command.... let's encourage and be thankful...... just me