If you look at my sig. can you help with more low end power? I flat line (so to speak) untill around 3500 rpm. I have been reading about having the ECU done but still do not know what to do. I'm at a loss for more low end. Please help. Thank you all for your help. Jeff

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=99770

 

im not trying to be a smart a$$, seriously. i used to have a 2004 MCS and a 2005 MC. i now have the 2007 R56 MCS with the turbo. the low end is amazing, almost too much. full torque comes at just 1600 RPMs. i dont know your $$$ situation but i know that all coopers have a great resale (i should know i sold 2 of them). the differnce in cost that you would lose between selling your 2003 and getting a 2007 might equal the $$$ you would spend on mods to try and increase the low end on your MCS. go take a drive, you will see what i am talking about. oh and dont forget to hit the sport button, it makes a huge difference.

 

Well, an '05 tranny has shorter gearing and that will make you quicker off the line. As for power upgrades, here's a recent thread that may help...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=93689

 

Thank you all for the help. I wish I could get a new 07 but the wife won't give the go ahead. As far as the tranny how easy is it to find a used one?

 

Lighter wheels can make a notable difference, as well as a smaller rolling diameter tire. My wheel/tire set-up weighs 30 lbs, and has a diameter of 23.3".

Delta from stock 16's = 12+ pounds per wheel/tire, and 1.1".

Lightening the car also helps...

 

All I can say to some of this 07 Turbo Mini talk is that there will never be another Mini designed like the r53. It's old school, designed to look the most comparable to the old original style of the Coopers while newer, it has kept it's orignality.

The newer the model the less enthusiastic they have become I think. The r53's looks like the exact decend of the original thought/style design while the newer 07 looks to be doing away from that boxie popular style look of the Mini Cooper.

The performance is personal opinion and depends on the individual. I have owend Turbo cars, and while I did like them, I don't believe they are the best fit for the Coopers. I think the original engine design should stay nonturbo and work from there.

The 07 journey should be something to watch and see how it unfolds. I would perfer however that they go back to the straight stock engines with more power and stronger drive train. I could see an evolution to a 2.2 liter engines with around 220-230 bhp right out the factory with potential of many upgrades to make it that much more stronger/faster which makes it so much more fun and exciting rather than going turbo.

 

believe me you need to at least go out and drive the 07. this engine is awesome and it fits the cooper great. there is no sign or turbo lag at all!! in fact it pulls hard all the way up from 1600 RPMs. it can be tame around traffic or be unleased and very responsive and almost hyper with loads of power. drives like my audi TT but without the turbo lag. and like my nissan 350Z without being hyper all the time. plus i am getting mid to upper 30s for gas mileage. thats very classic MINI to me (economy on gas, great to drive). my 2004 MCS got mid 20s. also it took way too long for the tritec to spool up. just for reference, the 07 at 2000 pulls harder than the 2004 at 4000 RPMs (no joke). one thing i miss is the supercharder sound. the new engine has no sound (or very little). i also agree that the R53 looks much more like the classic MINI design than the R56. but i think thats the point. the R53 design was one generation (so to speak) away from the calssic look and the R56 is two away. i would not expect a design farther removed from the original to look as much like the original, and the same with happen with the next design and so on.

 

I do believe when you talk about the pull of the 07 model since few members including Mario from this forum have experianced it for themselves.

However, You did hit a nail right on the head with the SC sound being absent from the turbo. I absolutely "LOVE" the SC sound to a degree that I wouldn't change my car for a new one if it was for free. But that's just my personal preference.

If your talking the pulls from 1600 and up say to 5k, then I will race my moded 02 r53car anytime of the week against an 07 turbo and I will bet you that I will cross the finish line 1st by approximately 1 second faster everytime. The mods capabbility for the 07s are very limited as I understand, and to me, as an individual, that's what matters when your talking whos got more pull/power. It's who gets to the finish line 1st not the one that pulls harder.

As it stands the 07 Turbo has 172 bhp compared to the r53 at 163 bhp. That's a measly 9 more for going turbo. The 0-60 for the 07 is at 6.7 seconds as opposed to the r53 at 7.0 seconds, that's another measly .3 tenth of a seconds faster.

Now the trqs: the 07 has 177 lbs vs 148 for the r53. Eventhough there is a considerable 30 more trq and pull for the 07, the end result is only .3 tenth of a second faster to 60.

I can happily say that my moded 02 r53 trq is only about 159-160 with a bhp of which it was tested under average conditions at 234 and my 0-60 clocks just under 6 seconds somewhere in the neighborhhood of 5.7 to 5.9 seconds.

 

It sucks if this thread turns into another r53 vs. r56 debate. The OP wants more low end for his current car, so let's let the informed help him. And for the record, from a proclaimed r53 lover and r56 disliker, the r56 is a lot faster than the r53. A lot. The numbers don't tell you how it feels. I'll never have one because I don't like it, but it feels a ton faster, stock for stock.

mb

 

NAM needs a sticky explaining little 4 bangers.

The fact is, if you want monster low end torque, you got the wrong engine. There really isn't much I think you can really do to change that (but I could be wrong).

That is an apple to orange comparison and means nothing. You need to compare OEM to OEM or modded to modded. Once the aftermarket tuners do their thing, the turbo will be faster. Mods are only limited until the crack the ECU.

Funny ... how come every magazine test shows the R56 at 6.2?

How do you explain that. ... without any "mods"

The fact is, they will most likely get far more HP out of the turbo engine. I think motoringfile has been talking about 235bhp for the JCW ... if thats true, you know the aftermarket will go higher because they will not care about long term durability as BMW must.

 

From the offcial Mini site the 0-60 is 6.7 seconds. The Official 0-60 for an 02 MCS has been clockd at 7.0 and even tested at 6.9 at some tracks.
http://www.miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS...rmance_Specs-i

 

It is not that tmuch more faster if that's what your referring to. The numbers don't lie. The 07 MCS Turbo by official web site of Mini has the 0-60 at 6.7 seconds and the 02 has been listed at 7.0. I don't care how much trq you have if I'm .3 seconds behinde you when I hit 60.


again, check the official site

http://www.miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS...rmance_Specs-i

 

i agree numbers dont lie. but for the life of me i cant figure out why the 07 seems soooo much faster. think about it. full pull at 1600 RPMs. i have NEVER driven a car with that much power down so low (even the 350Z doesnt compare), from a standstill the RPMs at a minor blip hit 3000RPMs with the sport button on. its so crazy im afraid MINI will tone it down on future software updates. when you take off from a stop its like a monster. believe me, from someone that had a 2004 MCS, this 07 is a much improved different beast all together. take a test drive. you wont believe it. BMW has really hit the mark with this engine. i dare to say its almost perfect.

 

Actually the '05/'06 R53 is rated at 168 bhp.

For most people, the higher torque of the R56 will make it a much faster car on the street (i.e. running below 5000 rpm). Have you driven the R56 and what are your impressions? As a point of reference here is Randy Webb's testing and comparison: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=94521

Getting back on topic to the original post, I think that to gain any significant low end, you'll have to install a new head.

 

Well I believe you when you say that it has power and pull. I've already stated that few members including Mario has driven one and has stated the same impressive feelings. It might feel like there is so much power and pull due to the low RMP trq but when you hit 60 from stand still at 6.7 seconds compared to an 02 that has even been tested at some tracks doing as fast as 6.9 I just can't agree that he 07 is that much more ahead of me when I hit 60.

Having said all that, I'm affraid however that the 07 won't do anything for me since my modded 02 does under 6 seconds 0-60.

Back to the topic of low RMP. A DT BPV along with newly available MSD Ignition coil & plugs by Summit Racing would help you with that. I'm curretnly thinking of installing an air/air GSR IC from England. Cooling the car down along with a good CAI will help you leaps and bounds in all phases of the trq ranges, low and high.

 

What on earth would an ignition coil do to help with low end torque . A pulley and a head, those are the only two mods you're going to make any low end power with. Unless you're building a racing motor you shouldn't be concerned with the 1-2 HP some of these silly mods give you. It's a wonder how much money people waste .

 

get a turbo kit . you'll still have the better looking car but with more down low .

 

how far away exactly do they need to go before it's not a mini ? why do car makers insist on messing with a good thing ? oh yeah the design team needs something to do .or it's bye-bye .

 

"official" numbers from vendors mean squat. It's no big secret that in the 60s, American car companies understated the true HP of muscle cars simply to reduce insurance costs.

"Some" ar makers put out conservative numbers. For example, the "official" number for Porsche 997S is 4.6, yet 3.9 is reported by R&T after breakin. Its common knowledge that Porsche underates their power/times. Just think about it. If MINI said 6.7 and you didn't get 6.7 ... people would be complaining.

EVERY mag review of the R56 I've read is quoting 6.2/6.3. It don't matter what MINI is reporting Now granted, auto journalists want the "best" time they can get from the car and may abuse it in ways an owner never will. For example, go read the Elise forums. There have been complaints that people can't get close to 4.4/4.5 times but the reason is, few normal people are willing to dump their clutch at 8K.

If virtually every review of the R56 says 6.2 ... then aftermarket tuners will quickly get that to 5.9 for very little cost (comparitive to the cost for the R53).

 

ok fine, lets say it is in fact 6.3 as you state according to these so called auto journalists. There are also tests on the r53 as I stated realier that it has come in at even 6.9. Now, that's .6 tenth of a second faster. So what I'm mbasicaly saying is that it's not a hellova lot faster even if we go with these number claims of 6.3 seconds and certainly not at all faster if we go with the 6.7 claim made by the official site.

We can argue this all day about what's the difference of the speed and power. The piont I was trying to make was in reference to the general thought that the 07 is some kind of a monster when compared to the r53 where in fact it's not that much of a difference in the speed catagory. .3 or .6 seconds faster does not institute a grand prize for those claming that it's SO much faster.

Back to the topic.

rusty- The MSD coil package produces a multi spark functions as Ive been told in order to burn the fuel faster in creating faster sparks. I'm not a mechanic by any means but my general logical conclusion would indicate that it should somehow influence the overall power if not the trq output of the car. Am I perhaps being too off base by this analogy here?

 

More low end power is a problem with all R53s. After driving a stock R56 MCS I can confirm that the newest MINI has lots of low end grunt and equals any mid modded R53 MCS in power curve down low.

But the stock R56 doesn't handle that well so you have nothing to worry about. Your R53 modded will still be loads of fun.

Your mods-
03 MCS,M7 DFIC w/ Areogel,Alta 15% V.2, Alta exhaust, Dinan CAI,DT B.V., Dinan Stage 3 and 5, M7 USS,Alta SB, H-Sport Springs,Alta End Links, H-Sport FSB,NGK Iridium plugs,M7 STB,Dinan T.B.Alta S.S.

You have power and suspension mods. Which rear swaybar?

For low end power you need to:
Improve gearing- 2005 MCS 6 speed gears or equivalent, could find a transmission used or in a junk yard or on ebay or through helix13.com
Improve traction- add quaife differential - very expensive, $1100 for the part and $600-1400 to do labor.
Improve response- lightweight flywheel, race spec clutch. $800 in parts, lots of labor, can be combined with Quaife install.
Reduce total weight- remove your back seats, reduce battery size
Get light rims and sticky tires of lower than stock outer tire diameter.
Consider changing to 19% reduction pulley from the 15% with stock crank pulley. Or use light weight 2% crank pulley with 15% SC pulley.

What are your current tires and rims?

Sometimes I use 15" wheels (12 pounds each) and 205/50-15 tires at 22.8" outer tire diameter. 24.4" is stock. Speedo reads higher than actual but it's fun.

 

Minihune-That sounds like another $5k plus project

 

"so called auto journalists"?

That sounds like your dissing the auto journalists and testing facilities of major auto magazines like Motor Trend, Road & Track, etc. They have been testing cars for many, many years ... why slam them?

A .6 second difference on a 6 second car IS pretty big. At 60 MPH from 0 - 60 ... if the acceleration was linear and of course its not since you accelerate on the torque curve ... thats an average of 30 mph or 44' sec. .6 x 44 = 26.4' Now consider the R56 has a much better low end torque curve and its easy to see why people feel the R56 is much faster. You accelerate on the torque curve.

The faster the cars, the much more harder it is to gain tenths of a second. .6 seconds on a 6 - 7 sec car is significant. 26 feet is something you will see ... more than 2 car lengths

 

Chows- I was not slamming them per say. I did however stated the official site's numbers for you and you came back with this:

"official" numbers from vendors mean squat.

If that's the case, then why not the same sentiment toward the journalists?

The difference again is debatale since some say the car does between 6.2-6.3 and the official site says 6.7. I would rather then go with the official site of Mini than the numbers gathered from other Journalists. But that's just tme.

Either case, we have swayed away from the main point of this thread and I will have to agree to disagree on the notion that the difference is in fact that much between the 2 cars as far as performance.