I am most concerned about tire pressures. I have a pretty much neutral steer with the coilover and suspension settings. I have driven this track multiple times when I raced my Bugeye and have taken the Mini out on a prior occasion. I have been working on the brake pads with Wilwood since I have not found the proper one which will last the day. With the addition on the front splitter and rear wicker bill I have added downforce to compliment the GP2 undertray/diffuser. I know I need to work on damper settings and tire pressure.

 

What tires are you running?

 

Also, what are your psi for each tire after the session? And tire temp on the outside, middle and inside of each tire after the run?

 

I have BFG Rivals for this year. Need to get tire temp gauge so I can check.

 

Also check your beginning and ending psi for each tire. You should log that in your track journal if you cannot remember.

 

Bought a tire temp infrared reader yesterday and created a data sheet which I can log all my data. Thanks for the advise.

 

zre - what is the Wilwood BBK that you have? I am not familiar with the 6 pot caliper ones. Let me know what the setup looks like. Also, do you have DTC with the eLSD?

I have the TCE 12.2" bbk with the 4 pot calipers and have been fighting with chewing up and burning out brake pads. But I seem to have come up with a working set up. A lot of it has to do with proper cooling and, for me, having a solution for the abuse that the brakes take from the eLSD. As for proper cooling, I found that the MINI brake ducts dump too much air on the back side of the rotor to just remove the dust shields. But with out removing them there is not enough cooling. So I trimmed their IDs so they let air into the vanes of the rotors but not allow the air from the brake ducts blow directly on the rotors back sides. I use the Poly H pads and the last couple of times out have gotten good life out them. I can give more details if this seems to be helpful.

 

I have the standard DTC with eLSD. The Wilwood 6 pot setup is the biggest caliper I found on their site. I have the JCW Aero kit so I have the front duct ducts. The brake kit required removing the dust shields so I do not have them in place. I guess I can try replacing them to direct the air flow better. Will have to check it out, tried adding additional ducting but could not find a good route for the flexible duct. Wilwood has suggested the Polymatrix B pads which have a higher temp range which I have purchased and will try next week.

Thanks Eddie07S for the information, it has provided a different direction to look at.

 

Poly B pads will be a good choice for longevity and a modest street/track tire. If you move to more dedicated rubber or harder demanding tracks you'll be looking to H compound. You may also want to consider some Ti pad shims for the DP6 caliper as this will keep the heat out of them more given the narrow pad size.

 

Todd from TCE: I saw Eddie07S at LRP last week and he said you're the guy to talk to about Wilwood brakes. You'll be hearing from me soon.

 

Ha, thanks! lol

I'm around. Don't spend as much time on NAM as I did years ago but I'm not hard to find.

Hit me up, I'll do my best to help!

 

toddtce

What is the cost and availability of the heat sheilds for my Dynapro6 calipers. Need them for next Thursday at LRP?

 

Should be in stock.

Bottom of the PAGE

 

Ordered. Did not see shipping costs?

 

hmm..should do flat rate postal, I'll check it. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

zre - part of your problem with the brakes may be the DTC and the brake pad wear it causes on the track. You may just have to live with it as there is no easy way to turn off the eLSD. Porsches and BMWs owners complain about this too.

If you are not cracking rotors on the outside, then I would say that you are not over cooling the inside and I would leave things as is for now until you see how the new pad work. I cracked the outsides of rotors as the brakes got so hot that when the insides were cooled quickly from the air blowing on them, the outsides cracked. As for flexible hose, you are right about it being hard to duct air to the brakes on these cars.

The Poly B pads are really nice and you will really like the stopping power they have on the track. I have used them once but I have waited until I got the cooling issue somewhat fixed before I went back to them. The Poly H handle the heat a little better so I have stuck with them while working on cooling the brakes.

Hey, I never responded to your question about Watkins Glen...The GVC chapter of BMWCCA usually runs a 3 day event the first weekend of May. The first day is open track for advanced solo drivers and instructors. The next 2 days is a full HPDE. These guys are really good and you will learn a lot. Keep an eye on Motorsportsreg.com come February for registration. Be great to have some more MINIs there. Then there is June with the Patroons BMWCCA chapter, SCDA in July, GVC agian in July or is it August, Track Masters, Group 52, Kojote thrown in for good measure...well, you get the picture

 

LRP update,the polymatrix B pads worked great lasted for the 2 1/2 sessions. After break-in during first session ran my best lap of the day. Event was sold out and due the changing weather, rain came in and greased up the track, most people called it a day. During the second session had a spirited several laps with a R53 GP, chased him down and traded places a couple times. Great fun. Rain the first session after the shower to get some experience in rain conditions, cut it short after 1/2 way.

I still need to work on balance of car, rear needs more grip, even after playing with tire pressures. Open to advice on balance setup.

Working on using dust shields to create cooling ducts, will see how this goes.

 

ZRE, what are your camber settings?

Slinger, there's no way you're going back to novice! I had a good laugh at that one! You are welcome to split the day with my MINI, if you promise to keep at least 3 wheels on the track at all times!

My last track day is looking like Halloween, October 31st @ Lime Rock. 9-1 packs the same amount of track time into half the day.

 

Poly B pads are a great weekend pad and offer good cost to time value. They are not the most aggressive pad but that's the point; easier modulation for tires perhaps less than race rubber grade. Too often folks forget that pads should be balanced to tires. Too much pad can be as bad as too little and make the driving experience less than fun.

For rear improvements I'd suggest our 11.75 Rear Rotor Kit which uses the stock caliper on a larger disc. Forget about better pads this does both; more torque and lower operating temps are a thing of the past with the stock part. *Will not fit 15" wheels.

 

zre - glad to hear the brakes are improved with the new pads. I can send you pics of the mods I made to my dust shields if you want.

As for your comment about the balance of your car and the rear needing more grip. What is the rear doing or not doing that you are not liking and under what conditions? Need more info in order to offer any suggestions.

BTW - I will be at LRP tomorrow with Patroons chapter of BMWCCA.

 

Hope the rain misses you today @ LRP! Have fun!

 

Jon, Sorry I missed you at LRP, but went to Thompson to crew for my cousin and his son who ran mini stocks for the first time on the road course, 1 st and 3rd, not bad.

I would like to see the mods to the dust shields.

The issue I had was that the rear end became loose under trail braking into the left hander and also under hard cornering.

Here are the specs for my car:

Front Camber: 1.4 degrees, Rear Camber 1.2 degrees, toe out .06 degrees front, toe in rear ,23 degrees

Car was corner balanced:

LF 914.8#, RF 870.2#, LR 559.2#, RR 531.8 # this is .8# from optimium seeting.

Cross weight 1429,3 49.7%, Front 1785.0# 62.1%, Rear 1091.0# 37.9% Total 2875#

Tire pressures at LRP:

First Session:

Cold: LF 32, RF 32, LR 30, RR 30
Hot: LF 41, RF 39, LR 34, RR 35

Second Session:

Cold: LF 31, RF 31, LR 30, RR 30
Hot: LF 40, RF 38, LR 33, RR 33.5

Hopefully this provided some data to make suggestions.

 

To reduce oversteer

1. You could use a little more front camber, around -2 to -2.2 to start with. Also adjust the rear camber using the thermometer or the chalk method.
2. Also you could lower the rear height a little
3. Increase the rear sway bar stiffness
4. Reduce the front sway bar stiffness
5. Find the best psi for the tire type you have, then make sure your rear tires are running at that psi hot.

There are many more things to do (adjust the spring stiffness, retune the shocks, change the ride height differential, etc) but you can start with these. Do them one at a time and see if you like it.

 

Use limo braking and Modulate the trail braking a little more. A little oversteer is not necessary a bad thing.

 

Zre,
Do you use a data logger? If not, consider getting one that others use so you can share.
In your example above, it would be interesting in see your braking and lateral G profiles.
Data will show you the way, both as a driver and as a mechanic.
I used Traqmate for many, many years in race cars. Key to any data system is it has to be easy enough to actually use it between sessions so that you go out on track with a plan each time. Being able to overlay data on video can be helpful too.