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SCDA HPDE Schedule

  #2576  
Old 10-18-2017, 04:01 AM
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You were spot on. I think I would prefer the counterclockwise direction as well, but difficult to say for sure without driving it. Even the instructors were experimenting with different lines, from what I saw when I was a passenger during their first session. Couple of things I forgot to mention above: there were no cones out to indicate turn ins or apexes; there were no numbers to rely on for braking zones. One cone was put out on the concrete barrier on the right side for T-1 after lunch. I found the lack of cues somewhat liberating, but a bit intimidating at the same time. By the time I was out for my last session, it wasn't an issue. I was actually using some of the brake zone numbers (which weren't visible since I was looking at them from behind), as track out points. I will definitely put this track on my list for next season. I'm signed up for my final event (unless it is unusually warm in November here) @ Lime Rock on October 28th-4 sessions between 1-6 PM.
 
  #2577  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:17 PM
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I was thinking about what you said about Palmer having elements of other tracks in it and I just realized that running in the clockwise direction, the part of the track coming out of T8, down into T7 and through T7 is almost identical to WGI T6 to T7 (the Toe) and through T7. Did you find that to be true? And do you think it is just coincidence that T7 at Palmer has the same turn number as the Toe at WGI and is somewhat a copy?

Have fun at LRP. You may want to bring studded snows as your backup tires...
 
  #2578  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by veggivet View Post
I'm signed up for my final event (unless it is unusually warm in November here) @ Lime Rock on October 28th-4 sessions between 1-6 PM.
If the weather is good, I may take a ride up in the RX7. We'll see. It's the weekend of my grandson's birthday and I'm not sure what the plans are.
 
  #2579  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:57 PM
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Eddie, you must have been eavesdropping during my classroom sessions. I said exactly that about those turns, and how the extreme camber in the 'fishbowl', as they call it @ Palmer, literally pulls the car down into a chute and out the other end. The MINI felt great in that corner. I'm sure they copied the concept from WGI, but I think the fact that it turned out to be the same turn number is just coincidental. Regarding the studded snow tires, do you know something about the long range weather forecast that I don't? I remember having to skip out of WGI a day early the first week in October a few years ago because they were predicting (and received) 4 inches of snow the next day, but I think the climate in CT is a bit milder than in the Finger Lakes of NY. At least, I hope so!

GKP, hope you can make it up to Lime Rock. Bring the grandson and start him off early in his training! It would be nice to see you again before the off season.
 
  #2580  
Old 10-19-2017, 05:37 PM
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Twilight Zone at Palmer

Here's an odd one for everyone reading this...

My first day at Palmer. I drive up with the RE71Rs on the car set at 36 psi for the road. I reset the pressure to 32 psi up front and 34 psi in the rear. The car feels good for the first session, but it is cool out and, being my first time ever at Palmer, the tires didn't get overly warm and I didn't check them. So they were the same going into my second session. The car felt really good the second session. They were good to the point my instructor remarked towards the end of the session about how much grip the tires had. There was no feeling of any soft tires. At the end of the session I pitted, dropped off my instructor and went up to my parking spot. I got out of the car, grabbed my tire pressure gauge and started to check pressures. Right front - a little high, let some pressure out to 38 psi; Right rear - a little high, let some pressure out to 37 psi; Left rear - 16 psi - WHAT???? What is going on here? I check the gauge by going back to the right side - 37 psi, right where it was. Then someone remarked that my left front tire looked flat. Well, at somewhere between 10 and 15 psi, it was pretty darn flat. Both my left front and left rear were almost flat!

I was in a panic; I brought one spare not counting on two bad tires and I was at a 2 day event and had only made it through half of the first day.

Worse yet, someone else came up with a flat left rear tire that same session, which cause me to panic more.

What happened to my tires? I pull the rear tire off and replace it with my spare and add air to the front. A check of both the front and rear tires showed NO TIRE DAMAGE; no holes, cuts, etc. The check of the rear tire was with a gal of water looking for bubble from the stem, wheel bead and tread. Also, tire wear stopped at the tread markers; no sidewall wear. With no sidewall wear I assumed that they didn't loose pressure on the track. That assumption was confirmed by a number of instructors I know. They said if the tires were down that low on the track there would have been sidewall wear. The other guy did find a hole in his tire; not me. At this point it is not clear whether that front tire is holding air or not because it took a long time to cool off and as it did it dropped in pressure.

So, I am only 2 hrs from home, I decided to go home to get another set of track tires (I have 3 sets) and brought my pump to pump up the front on the drive home if needed. This was a 2 day event and I had already lost 2 sessions of the first day to this mess; I didn't want to loose the second day too.

Before heading to my hotel room I made one final check of tires pressures to note pressures so I could tell if that front one was going down. A 20 min drive to the hotel room, a quick call home to let the Wife know what was up and then another check of front tire pressure. Front left 36 psi (up 1; ) and front right 36 psi (up 1, as expected). Hmmmm, not loosing air pressure on the left front? What is up with that? . After a bit of hemming and hawing and 3 more checks of tire pressure which showed the same pressure left and right I decide that I have entered the Twilight Zone, the left front was clearly not loosing air pressure and decide to stay the night and see how it looked in the morning (Plus there was free Pizza and Beer back at the track ). 20 min ride back to the track, check pressures; again the same left and right. Have pizza and a beer; check tire pressures. Again, same left and right. Drive back to the motel; check tire pressures - no difference. Get up the next morning, Yup, same pressure left and right.

That next day I ran all 4 sessions on that left front tire that had been more than 20 psi low the day before. No idea why it lost pressure the day before and no idea why, after which, it didn't loose pressure. Oh, by the way, that left rear tire I took off and replaced with the spare - it is now holding pressure too. Like I said - the Twilight Zone
 
  #2581  
Old 10-19-2017, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by veggivet View Post
Eddie, you must have been eavesdropping during my classroom sessions. I said exactly that about those turns, and how the extreme camber in the 'fishbowl', as they call it @ Palmer, literally pulls the car down into a chute and out the other end. The MINI felt great in that corner. I'm sure they copied the concept from WGI, but I think the fact that it turned out to be the same turn number is just coincidental. Regarding the studded snow tires, do you know something about the long range weather forecast that I don't? I remember having to skip out of WGI a day early the first week in October a few years ago because they were predicting (and received) 4 inches of snow the next day, but I think the climate in CT is a bit milder than in the Finger Lakes of NY. At least, I hope so!

GKP, hope you can make it up to Lime Rock. Bring the grandson and start him off early in his training! It would be nice to see you again before the off season.
Actually, I heard October through the end is supposed to be above average. You should have a good day...
 
  #2582  
Old 10-19-2017, 06:01 PM
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That does sound like something out of The Twilight Zone! I have no logical explanation for what you experienced with those pressures. You're not the only one getting flats @ Palmer. There was a truck running on Tuesday, one of those 700 horsepower deals, driven by a guy who looked to be close to 70 years old! Grey hair and beard. Anyway, he was parked a few spots down from me, and I was hanging out watching the action of the run group on track coming down out of T-1 onto the main straight. I see the old guy getting ready to get into his truck for his upcoming session, and I notice his left front tire is flat. I mean, pancake flat! He didn't even see it! He was running Hoosiers. You would think at least you do a quick walk around your vehicle before each session, if not check tire pressures right before heading out, but no! I pointed it out to him, and he went about changing it out. I don't think anyone else experienced flats that day...
 
  #2583  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:47 PM
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Well, the car is back to "winter duty"; street tires and brake pads. The track tires have migrated down into the basement. In reflection, it was a pretty good season for me. I learned a few things that will be helpful to me in the future.

Here are a few:
* The RE71Rs are fantastic. The 205-50x15s are as good as the 225-45x17 R888s that I have. They have great grip and feel, have a very large tread area and are tolerant of not having a lot of camber.
* The 15" tires/wheels are really good on the short tracks like LRP and Palmer. The fact that they are 2" less in diameter as compared to the 225-45x17 makes the 15"ers not so good at WGI. The taller "gearing" provided by the taller tires is helpful on that track to eliminate a few shifts and the times are really no different.
* The rear tires on a MINI will pick up a lot of discarded rubber and that will make the car wiggle hard going up through the esses at WGI.
* Brakes need air and cooling, but it has to be in the right place. Air blowing directly on one side of the rotor will just crack the rotor. Air directed down to the bottom of the vanes works really well; lots of air in that area is even better. I am doing good with cooling now but it needs to be better. A good winter project for me.
* The R56 is not designed to support brake ducting. I have had to craft some interesting air diverters that are built into the brake dust shields to get this to work
* DTC60 pad front and rear on the MINI work really well at WGI but are a bit too much for Palmer; too much like an on/off switch. I think the Wilwood Poly Bs would be a good choice for Palmer.
* Salt is really hard on the steel parts on the Wilwoods and on the brake bleeder on the stock brakes.
* An old dog can learn new tricks; Palmer was a fun experience.
* Well design cross-drill rotors really do work (yes, they crack, but all rotors will crack), but you might just need a Porsche 956 race car to notice the difference. Did slotted rotors work better that plain rotors on my car? Maybe, but hard to tell.
And
* The Twilight Zone does exists. Those two tires are still holding air...

Here's to next season...
 
  #2584  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:00 PM
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Good points, Eddie, but think I'll stick with my 17s for the foreseeable future. No more room in the garage for another set of wheels! My season isn't quite done yet. Lime Rock this Saturday afternoon will probably be the finale for me...hope to run with you @ Palmer next year. Fun track for sure. I'm getting a little bored with Lime Rock. Probably make a trip out to WGI as well next year. Let's see if we can synch up schedules better than we did this past season...
 
  #2585  
Old 10-29-2017, 02:08 AM
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The track gods were smiling down upon Lime Rock yesterday, giving me a phenomenal finish to the season. You couldn't have manufactured a more perfect day. To start with, the half-day, afternoon format is great, since you don't have to get up early and can roll in around 11:30 and have plenty of time to swap wheels/tires. There is also very little down time between your sessions. By the time you check and adjust tire pressures, retorque, do a general inspection of the car, and rehydrate, it is almost time to stage for your next session. The track was warm, as it was sunny and nearly 70. You've got to hand it to the Chinese; their hoaxes are 'AMAZING', as our moron-in-chief would say. The car felt perfect from the first lap out. Grippy, predictable, and fast. Being Halloween weekend, there were a couple of scary moments on track: a Mustang 'lubricated' the left-hander with brake fluid after one of his lines failed. My car slid for an instant before regaining full traction on the entrance to the corner. Next time around, the debris flag was out, and I adjusted my line accordingly. The other event occurred on the exit to the right hander. A Miata I was behind went off line and clipped the cone in a way that caused it to bounce on the track. Managed to avoid it without upsetting the car very much. There was only one other MINI there, a second GP that was running on Run-flat tires! Even so, he was turning a 1:12 by his last session out in INT 1. Hope to pick up next season where this one left off...
 
  #2586  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:14 PM
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That is what we like to hear...

A Great Day on the track.
It did seem like a perfect day.

And here's to next season.
 
  #2587  
Old 10-30-2017, 04:43 AM
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For sure...I've got WGI, Palmer, and the new track in New Hampshire on my list..
 
  #2588  
Old 10-30-2017, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by veggivet View Post
For sure...I've got WGI, Palmer, and the new track in New Hampshire on my list..
I also hope to turn up the activity next year. My new coilovers, sway bar and other suspension parts are in the garage. Hope to get started soon.

What's the name of the new track in New Hampshire?
 
  #2589  
Old 10-30-2017, 06:44 AM
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Brad, the other MINI guy that was there, mentioned it to me. It is Club Motorsports. SCDA ran there two days in early September.

You can drool over it here: www.clubmotorsports.com
 
  #2590  
Old 10-30-2017, 05:42 PM
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It has more straight-straights than Palmer has, but it too has a lot of turns in a short distance.
 
  #2591  
Old 10-30-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gkp View Post
My new coilovers, sway bar and other suspension parts are in the garage. Hope to get started soon.
What did you get for new toys? Details please...
 
  #2592  
Old 10-30-2017, 05:56 PM
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Yes, Eddie, a nice layout in my opinion. There's a great video on youtube of someone driving Elivan's daily driver on it. Extremely smooth driving, and tons of run off areas. Not used to seeing those at either Lime Rock or Palmer!

To find the video, just search for Elivan + Club Motorsports. Should be the top hit.
 
  #2593  
Old 10-30-2017, 06:14 PM
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That is a good video. Pretty clean drive, but a few early apexes. The autocross style cone marking is an interesting way to do that.

However, pit in and pit out leave a bit to be desired. Pit out is right into traffic at the track out of T1. Marking it with cones isn't going to stop some who has over cooked the turn or lost brakes from slamming into the side of someone coming onto the track. They should extend the pit wall further, along the line of cones.

Doesn't mean I'm not interested in trying it, though...
 

Last edited by Eddie07S; 10-30-2017 at 06:15 PM. Reason: typo
  #2594  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:24 PM
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Yeah, it was weird to see cones out in the middle of the track! I can live with pit out. I'm super careful heading onto the track, especially if it is in the middle of a session. My problem at this track may be getting distracted by the amazing scenery!
 
  #2595  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:09 PM
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Just a reminder to all HDPE addicts: Snell 2005 helmets will not pass tech inspection next year; maybe a good thing to add to the holiday gift list, or just do like I did, and buy it for yourself!
 
  #2596  
Old 11-07-2017, 03:38 PM
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Had to get one this year for BMWCCA.

And I bought me a Jeep Wrangler
 
  #2597  
Old 11-07-2017, 03:48 PM
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Congrats on the Wrangler, but that definitely won't pass tech!
 
  #2598  
Old 11-08-2017, 05:57 AM
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I started my winter MINI rejuvenation project. Starting with a few gauges that I bought last Spring and never got around to installing. Coilovers, sway bar, links and other suspension pieces are in the garage. After that, who knows? I'd love to switch back to a dual mass flywheel because the OS Giken kit I have is clunky on the street (but indestructible on the track). However that's an expensive proposition; not something I can do myself.
 
  #2599  
Old 11-08-2017, 02:07 PM
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Sounds like it's going to be an absolute BEAST! I bet Eddie07 can swap out for the dual mass flywheel in between track sessions with his tool kit...
 
  #2600  
Old 11-09-2017, 05:56 AM
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Last edited by gkp; 11-09-2017 at 06:03 AM.

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