This question is for Heather (when the inventory is over of course) and for anyone else that knows for sure...

How will freezing temps effect products? I have two orders placed - one from ADS and one from DP, and they are both due to arrive in very cold weather. Of course, I didn't know that freezing was bad before I ordered all of this, or I would have waited. It's like $150 worth of stuff. Not like we have that kinda $$$ just laying around. So I will be REAL pissed if a lot of this stuff is ruined. Why won't retailers make these kind of disclaimers?

What does freezing do to it that makes it so bad?

Signed,
A very frustrated WannaMini freezing her *** off in Ohio

wanna, I wouldn't worry about it too much. DP does an amazing job packaging their things, so I wouldn't worry about that order at all. The thing that I would try to do is be at home when the package arrives or have it held at the post offfice until you can go pick it up.

I think it is bad for polishes and waxes because the polymers in them seperate and cannot be re-mixed together. This is just what I have heard, and im not even sure if its true or not.

how about just getting real cold but not freezing. i keep all my things in the garage and it really cold in there.

I have been keeping my waxes and polishes inside during the cold. We are supposed to have a high of 5 degrees (low well into the negatives) in a few days and its really not worth the risk (if there is any at all, this is still really up in the air).

wanna... i think it will be okay. as mcdbrendan said, the DP bottles usually come wrapped in packing paper in a box, so i don't "think" they will freeze. also, while they are in trucks and all and it will be cold, i doubt they will freeze.

i second the idea of being there for delivery so that they don't sit outside though and of keeping them inside for a while, not out in a garage. i imagine these products are suceptible to freezing if they are out in a cold environment like a garage for a long time... but probably not while they are in transit and the liquid/wax is moving around.

just my .02... but i'm no scientist.

Yes freezing is VERY bad. There are lots of threads on MOL (Meguiarsonline.com) about this. I would do everything in your power to get that package out of the cold ASAP when it arrives. Maybe call the delivery company and using your tracking number ask them to either hold the package so you can pick it up or deliver it to a neighbor that will be home at the time.

Richard

How long would a bottle of polish take to freeze in 9 degree weather? HAHAHA

Well if we are talking about the water based polishes from Prima:

"Water freezes at 32 Degrees, though this can be lowered if it were a mixture
(like anti-freeze or salt solution)."

"If your water is already at 0 celsius, you need to look only at latent heat - it will take a specific amount of energy for 1 kilogram of water at 0degrees C to turn to ice, and this is called the latent heat of water. look at how fast you are adding energy (er... the cooling power of your fridge, for example. or the temp differential if your surrounding are cold - maybe you hangin out wit the reindeer and polar bears anyways - power in watts is the amount of energy (in joules) per sec. you know how much energy you need (from the latent heat) so you can calculate the time.

if your water is not yet at 0degrees C then you'll also need to look up "specific heat capacity of water", which is a measure of the energy required to raise e.g. 1 kilogram of water by 1degree C. or just buy some ice.

and be careful to note the difference between "specific latent heat" and "latent heat" - specific means per unit mass (e.g. per kilo), and just "latent heat" means for whatever amount of water they talkin about there."

I googled this answer...LOL

alright, so the short of OG's thesis on freezing properties

if you wouldnt stand there naked for more than 5 minutes for 50 bucks, get the wax inside.

0F outside -21F windchill... my distilled water has not froze yet in the
garage. not bad for an unheated garage. just garage door
foams.

(my detailing stuff is inside... not taking chances)

good thing i moved my stuff inside... the distilled water that i placed
on the workbench (where i was originally planning to keep my stuff high and
away from the floor a few days ago) froze in the last 3hrs.

on the otherhand, the distilled bottle on the floor but close to the wall
had not froze.

My stuff is in my "detailing cabinet", insulated with a crapload of Monster Fluffies

After having a bottle of Griot's QD freeze and burst a few years back, I called their CS dept to ask about their products and cold weather. They said some of their products can't withstand freezing temps, others can (can't remember which though). Since then I always bring all of my car care chemicals inside from my detached unheated garage when the temps dip below 20° or so. Typically that means I have to make room for 3 or 4 large rubbermaid containers full of chemicals in my house from Dec to Feb.

I'd just try to get the box inside ASAP after delivery. If your stop is towards the end of the FedEx/UPS driver's route, that means it could have been in the cold truck (barely heated) for at least 6-8 hours already.

-Keith

I'll update here, too, so I don't hijack the non-OC thread.

3:15 pm and no sign of the delivery being complete. I even had a neighbor lined up to retrieve the pkg from the front step and take inside to her place. So yeah, the products (M80 and M83, gold class car shampoo, and much, much more) I'm sure are frozen solid and ruined. According to the tracking, the box has been on the truck since 6:30 a.m. this morning, and it was -5 F then, and now it's 8 F.

So my question is, if the stuff is ruined, should I fight for a refund? I truly, truly think that Meguiar's and DP should put disclaimers on the site that states that freezing temps will ruin products!

I'm sure there are a lot of temperature sensitive products on that UPS truck, so don't assume that it's frozen yet. If the items are frozen, then they were damaged during transit and you should file a claim with UPS (assuming that's who delivered it) since it's insured for atleast $100--basic coverage. Meguiar's Customer service is very helpful and you can voice your concerns to them as well.

http://www.meguiars.com/customercare/

Thanks, OG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also read these threads on MOL (Meguiarsonline.com)

Search Results
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sea...searchid=88357

Specific Frozen Threads
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...rozen+products

i agree that stores should post warnings on the storefront about
possible frost damage and also clarify how they will package the
boxes to prevent frost damage.

maybe even provide foam boxes for extra fee or something.
(just dont buy detailing stuff during the off season)

wannamini- did you get your stuff okay without it freezing?

Well, I got home, and the box was inside. The box didn't feel too cold! So I was cautiously optimistic. Then I opened the box. Everything was frozen solid.

The good news is that I read on the site that OG lead me to that the shampoo should be ok, and turns out that there was only some M80 (unfortunately, the gallon size) and some M83. That was it.

But!!! I was going to call Heather today to ask her to not ship my oder just yet. More polishes. Too late. I got a shipment notification last night that it already shipped. So that will probably get ruined, too.

A lesson WELL learned.

im sorry to hear that, wannamini.

i shouldve defined in more detail why i dont buy during off-season, huh?

WannaMini...

Sorry for not being able to get back to you until today! Here are some answers to your questions/concerns:

• First and most importantly, if any of your products are damaged in transit, due to cold or anything else, Detailers Paradise will replace the product(s) for you right away. Just let us know. In future orders, know that we can request that the package is held at your local DHL warehouse for you to pickup. In the future, if you want to do this please feel free to indicate it in the Order Notes during online checkout. For some, the warehouse is really far while for others it is not. I can always research the location for you ahead of time if you'd like.
• While it is highly unlikely that your products will freeze during transit and/or sitting our your doorstep, it can happen. We do package everything very well and this provides some insulation- usually plenty enough. With the temps so many parts of the country are seeing this winter, it may not be enough! So, if it does happen, just refer to point # 1 above.
• Is the product ruined if it freezes? It actually depends. mcdbrendan is right in that the problem with freezing for most chemicals (and almost all car care chemicals) is that the product separates. The good news is that often the product will remix with no problems. To see if your product is ok after a bout of freezing, just allow it to get to room temperature and shake it really well. If it combines and stays that way, the product is fine. If it just separates again, then it is ruined. Freezing doesn't damage most chemicals beyond the separation. We've performed several versions of freeze tests on various products (sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally!) and have not seen any change in the chemical's performance or results as long as it has not permanently separated. Here's our rule of thumb, based on the advice of our chemists as well as our own experiences: If a product freezes then thaws three times, it is very likely ruined. In other words, it's not the amount of time it is frozen or how frozen, but instead the freezing and thawing back and forth which seems to create the permanent separation problems.
• What about cold but not freezing temps? Most chemicals have no problem at all with cold temps. The real problem is that sometimes temps will dip into freezing unexpectedly! That's why it's better safe than sorry regarding winter storage. Again, permanent separation is what causes the problems. This kind of separation is typically caused only by a true freeze of below 32 degrees F. We recently double-checked with our chemists on this and that's the lowdown from the chemical pros.
• Special note about carnauba waxes: Carnauba paste waxes tend to have the hardest time recovering from freezing temperatures. So, for your carnauba paste waxes I would definitely store them inside just to be safe. On the flip side, FYI, they can also have problems if they get too hot. Many people actually store their carnauba paste waxes in the refrigerator to ensure safe temps! Just make sure you don't accidentally spread some P21S on your bagel in the morning.
• Why don't retailers say something about freezing on their websites? Good question and good idea! I think I'll add something to our homepage, especially with all the horrible cold out there this winter. Thanks for the great idea. Sometimes we take this information for granted and we shouldn't!
• ...And manufacturers on their packaging? Another good question. For Prima, we simply didn't think of it and for that we apologize. Although we have thousands and thousands of our current product labels already printed, we will note this for the next run of product labels and for any new products we release.

I hope that covers all of the questions you and some of the others out there have about freezing.

Like I said, if you encounter any frozen products that have been ruined (aka permanently separated) during shipping, please let me know right away and we'll send you new product.

Thanks for the great question and suggestions!

-Heather

...and for this correctness, he receives a free monster fluffy...






















a week for life.

HEATHER!! Thanks for the great and thorough response!

No problem. Glad to be back on NAM!

-Heather