Buying a Used Gen1 MINI - North American Motoring


1st Gen FAQs 1st Gen Common Questions & Answers!

Buying a Used Gen1 MINI

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 01-31-2018, 07:13 AM
Whine not Walnuts's Avatar
Whine not Walnuts Whine not Walnuts is offline
Administrator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
Posts: 4,850
Thanked 497 Times in 453 Posts
Buying a Used Gen1 MINI

In an effort to assist a person interested in purchasing a used first generation MINI a couple of us put the below information together. If you are interested in a new MINI, the thread below should also help.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-the-deal.html


Since North American Motoring (NAM) was started allot has changed. This is still a place to talk about a new MINI but it is also a place where people talk about used MINIs. Recently 2017All4, another Moderator here, started a thread in the 3rd Generation Section about buying a new F Series MINI. That thread has grown to more than 33,000 views and it got me thinking about why something similar in the other generation sections would not help those looking for a “new to them” MINI.

So where do we start? First, remember that once an “untitled” car is driven off the dealer’s lot it is no longer “new”, it is a used car. Next, as this is a 1st Generation (Gen1) thread, let’s review what models are involved and some of their particulars.

MODELS and YEARS

There are three models of Gen1 MINIs. In 1994 BMW purchased the Rover Group and with that the Mini name. In 2001 BMW introduced the MINI to the European market with the American debut in 2002. You will note that we use MINI and not Mini here in our discussions. Gen1 MINIs have a Tritec engines that was produced in Brazil through a development agreement by both BMW and Daimler Chrysler. Some Chrysler vehicles in Europe, the Neon and the PT Cruiser, used the Tritec engine. The MINI is assembled in Oxford, England.

In America the three Gen1 models of MINI are;

1.) The R50 has a non-supercharged (naturally aspirated) engine, production years were 2002 to 2006. You may sometimes see this car called a “Justa.” The R50 has a 1598 cc engine (approximately 114 HP and 110 P/F Torque) with a curb weight of approximately 2293 pounds. Transmissions are either a 5-speed manual or a CVT (continuously variable transmission).

2.) The R53 has a supercharged (forced induction) engine and is marked with an “S” on both sides as well as the rear trunk area. Production years were 2002 through 2006. The R53 has a 1598 cc engine (approximately 161 HP, 155 P/F Torque) with a curb weight of approximately 2513 pounds. Transmissions are either a 6-speed manual or an Aisen automatic transmission. One option for the R53 was the JCW* option. JCW stands for John Cooper Works. John Cooper was English and involved with Formula 1. Cooper modified the British Motor Corporation’s Mini model to great success, the Mini Cooper was born. The JCW option package offered more horsepower (approximately 40 HP) at first and then later added some suspension changes.

3.) The R52 is the MINI Convertible model has comes in both “Justa” trim (naturally aspirated) and the “S” supercharged (forced induction). Transmissions were similar to those of the R50 and R53 (see above). Production years were 2005 through 2008. The “Justa” trim had a curb weight of approximately 2568 pounds and the “S” of 2848 pounds. The “S” also offered the JCW option package.

In 2005 MINI modified styling for both the interior and exterior of the R50 and R53. The 2005 and 2006 models and all of the R52 cars are known as “facelift” models. These model years also had minor changes/upgrades made to gear ratios, motor mounts, and other mechanical parts.

IN PRINT - REVIEWS

It is now 18 years since the MINI debuted here in the US. Below I have provided links to four articles written about the car through the years. The first two were prepared when the car was released back in 2002 with the third and fourth being written in retrospect. The last two do offer perspectives on some common issues these cars have.

Car & Driver - https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...er-s-road-test

Top Gear - https://www.topgear.com/car-news/jer...-mini-cooper-s

Road and Track - http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...-buyers-guide/

Motoring File - http://www.motoringfile.com/mini-r50r53-buyers-guide/

If you take the time to read through the last two articles you will note there are common issues with the Gen1 cars, many due to the age. Over time seals dry out and two in particular are the crank seal next to the belt pulley and the crank sensor o-ring. For the R50, the CVT automatic has had many issues and the replacement cost will put you "up side down" in what the car is worth versus the cost you have in it. For all models, the plastic engine coolant tank is prone to split.

HOW TO FIND A CAR and WHAT IS IMPORTANT

Most find a used car through either word of mouth or through some type of advertising medium. Websites advertising cars are such as:

Cars Direct - https://www.carsdirect.com/

Craigslist - https://www.craigslist.org/about/sites

Autotrader - https://www.autotrader.com/

Cars.com - https://www.cars.com/

When looking for a used MINI, and any type of car, many say to look for the newest car that fits within your budget. Why? Manufacturers release a new model and all the research and testing do not always turn up all the issues. In an above link, Road and Track states “Same as what used to be the rule with Porsches, the R53 Cooper S you want is the newest one your budget can support. Each model year comes with minor improvements to both power and reliability.” For the Gen1 MINI this means the 2005 to 2006 R50s and R53s along with all of the R52s (05-08) benefited from these improvements. I cannot stress the importance of becoming informed on the issues involved with any car, and in the case of a MINI this is why I included the links to both Road & Track and Motoring File above.

Your local MINI Dealer may also be a source but due to the age of the Gen1 cars, a trade-in would be have to be a low mileage car with documented records in order for them to keep the car in their inventory. There are also issues with obtaining loans for a car over six years in age from most lending institutions.

Several of the links above offer the ability, either free or for a cost, of seeing the history of a car. How many owners has the car had, was the car ever in a reported accident, are there any recalls, where was the car used (I used to live in the Northeast and know firsthand what road salt does to a car) and are there any service records? The more you know, the better chance you have of not buying a lemon.

OK, YOU FOUND A CAR, IS IT WORTH WHAT IS BEING ASKED?

My first brand new car cost me around $3,500 back in 1973 (yes, old). Since that time I have had more than a few cars but I do not buy a car every other day and I am not in the business of buying/selling cars. I relay upon others to inform me what cars are worth. NADA, http://www.nada.com/ , and Kelly Blue Book (KBB), https://www.kbb.com/ , are two companies that provide automobile pricing to both buyers and sellers. NOTE: I have no affiliations with either of these companies and I am not aware that Internet Brands that owns this forum has any affiliations as well. Both of these sites will provide information for pricing relative to an individual sale or by a dealer. The KBB values are normally less than what NADA projects. It should be noted that most lending institutions go by NADA values for car loans. There are posts in this forum noting that when you sell a car, you ask the NADA price but when you buy a car, you want to pay only the KBB price.

After-market modifications may be involved with a Gen1 MINI. These modifications can include body panels, body trim, interior trim, suspension and the motor. The pricing provided by NADA and KBB are based upon non-modified vehicles and it is difficult to judge the price a modification may add or detract to the sale price of a car. This is another reason to be well informed about the car but also if modifications are involved, the pros and cons of the modification.

FOUND A CAR, PRICE IS REALISTIC and GOING TO LOOK AT IT.

There are two basic types of sellers; the first is the person down the street, the second is a car dealer.

The person down the street may be selling the car because; 1.) They do not require the car anymore, 2.) They have bought another car and instead of accepting the “trade-in” offer they are trying to sell it themselves, or, 3.) They know something is wrong with the car and do not want to put more money into it. The question is whether they are going to tell you the real reason why they are selling.

On the dealer side you have the full service dealer with both a sales staff and a repair shop. Many times these types of dealers will offer a “limited” warranty on a used car whereas if something breaks, that they have specifically noted as being covered by their warranty, they fix it. It could be expected that with this type of overhead the sale price is higher and that the types of cars are in better overall shape. Then there are the dealers that have cars on a lot but nothing relative to a repair shop. Many times these dealers are a "Sold-as-Is" (no warranty) type place and the sales price may reflect costs lower than the full service places.

NOTE: It is important to know how the State that you are buying the car in addresses a sale from a business. I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with the car selling laws in your state.

Remember that a phrase used by the ancient Romans still applies today; caveat emptor – let the buyer beware.

SEEN THE CAR, LIKE IT so WHAT IS NEXT?

So you have found a MINI and the car has interested you enough that you nave decided to go look at it. The question I have for you is how good of a mechanic are you and even if you are a mechanic are you able to get the car into a position to really check it out? There are those that will say buying a car is close to gambling. To minimize the odds a Pre-Purchase Inspection or PPI can help. The buyer pays for a PPI to be performed at an auto shop. Any issues noted during the inspection can be used in the negotiation of the final price if you decide to proceed. It is suggested that a PPI be performed by a shop that knows MINIs. If such a shop cannot be found nearby, at a minimum the inspection should be similar to what a member provided in this thread:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...es-thrown.html

We are fortunate at NAM as one of the vendors also has a full service repair shop. I reached out to Nick at Detroit Tuned, http://www.detroittuned.com , about what they do when a person asks them to inspect a car and whether there was a “check list” that they used. He told me; “Having a set PPI schedule doesn't make sense when different cars have different failures, have lived in different environments, are owned by different drivers and have different mileage. All of that comes into play when you look at any car, so having a set checklist is not something that always works. We look the cars over front to back and top to bottom. Everything short of pulling the oil pan, valve cover, and starting to pull the car apart to see if there is any shoddy body repair.

OK, so as you don’t take everything apart during a PPI but are there other issues that a buyer should be aware of? His replay brings me back to the Roman's caveat emptor; Ask for any and all proof of maintenance or work done, and ask all the questions you can. Unfortunately there is a fair amount of situations that you can't look at during a PPI, such as; the timing cassette, clutch, engine internals, oil consumption, etc. So there is no way of knowing if you're buying into a problem. If you can't prove the car has been maintained you cannot gain the buyers trust. Proof of work is always going to make the sale.

In other words, a well maintained higher mileage vehicle with service records may be worth more than a car will fewer miles but no records.

Another important item to remember before buying any car is whether the options the seller is telling you the car has are true. This applies to both dealers and individuals. For this you take the Vehicle Identification Number or VIN and type/paste the number into several on-line “decoders”, two of which I have provided links to:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...vindecoder.php

http://myminivin.com/

SHOULD I GET AN AFTERMARKET WARRANTY?

For this I asked 2017All4 to assist and his comments below are IMO well worth the read:

First of all, extended warranties aren’t really extended warranties. They DO NOT extend the new car warranty coverage. They are insurance products that will cover some repairs and are limited in many ways.

One type of product lists everything that is covered. If it’s not on the covered list, it’s not covered. Period. The other type of coverage has a list of what is NOT covered. If it’s not on the exclusion list, it’s supposed to be covered. HOWEVER, even a “covered” item might not be covered if the insurance company determines that the so-called covered item failed or broke or quit working due to wear and tear or another failure of a not covered part. Even a skilled lawyer might be challenged to determine what is or isn’t covered or under what circumstances something is covered by a used car mechanical breakdown insurance product.

And, if you think you need to buy a pricey extended protection plan that has more coverage holes than a piece of Swiss cheese because you aren’t in a position to pay for a multi-thousand repair, and if you don’t know how to do basic repairs and diagnostics yourself, then a third party extended protection insurance policy, if you can find one, might cushion some of the blow if a major repair becomes necessary. But don’t count on any “extended warranty” to insulate you from the possible costs that come with owing a First Gen MINI.

Once a car is more than a decade old, or has more than 100,000 miles on the odometer, purchasing coverage for major mechanical repairs is challenging and, if available, can be expensive. One has to ask, is it worth paying 10 or 15 percent of the purchase price of the car, or more, just to get the limited available coverage? The internet is full of listings for companies promising to offer coverage. Shop around. BUYER BEWARE. Pay your money and take your chances, and get a Private Party Inspection from a mechanic that knows First Gen MINIs from top to bottom and negotiate the purchase price of the car based on what that trusted mechanic tells you is likely to require repair on these wonderful, but quirky cars.

Bottom line: If you’re buying a First Gen MINI, you need to understand about these early cars. You need to know the parts that have often caused trouble (like coolant tanks and CVT trannies and oil seals, and engine software, and, and and…) If this car you are thinking of buying is a daily driver or is a car that must be relied upon to get you where you need to go without fail, as opposed to a project car or a weekend fun car, think long and hard before buying a First Gen MINI. And never count on breakdown insurance to bail you out.

THE DEAL IS MADE, HOW DO I PAY?

As noted above, many lending institutions will not deal with cars over six years in age. There are companies that do make loans on older cars but normally interest rates are higher. I asked 2017All4 about this matter as well with the following response:

Short answer is: Pay Cash. An older used MINI is usually not worth a lot of money and, while some of the First Gen cars may become collector’s items and some, even today, are considered rare and have value, most are just not worth that much.

If you’re borrowing to buy, get a short-term loan of 3 ~ 4 years max. Few lenders like to go much longer than that on a older used car and if you do find a lender that will go 5 or more years, you need to ask yourself if it makes sense to be “upside down” (owing more than the car is worth) a few years down the line.
Also, no matter how clean that used First Gen car is, as time goes on, it’s gonna need repairs and/or you’re gonna want to spend some loot on mods and upgrades.

So, if you really can’t afford to pay cash, or mostly cash, for a First Gen MINI, think about whether or not owning an older MINI is the right move for you.

Having said all that, if your credit is top tier and your bank or credit union will finance your purchase at a reasonable rate, and you have 20 ~30 percent for the down payment, then financing is possible. But, sadly, on older used cars, most of the lending is done through alternative sources at higher rates – and some loans that are written on older used cars have pre-payment penalties.

If you are buying from a car dealer, they often finance their own contracts and, while the interest rates may get pricey, you can get financed. But again, think about whether it makes sense to owe money on a car that may not be worth a lot a few years down the road.

I HAVE THE CAR, WHAT IS NEXT?

Well hopefully you have done your research, kicked some tires and beat lady luck. Now it is time to enjoy the car, correct? Well you did ask and so I say, “Maybe." First I would make sure that some simple maintenance items as oil, brake fluid etc are all up to snuff. For this suggest you check out some other threads that are here on NAM.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...questions.html

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nce-guide.html

One last thought, there are over 4,000,000 posts here. Allot of good members took the time to get involved and make these posts. In the forum community it is known through research that only 1% of those that visit get involved. If you have found any of the information here on NAM to be useful, please consider becoming one of these 1%.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Whine not Walnuts For This Useful Post:
Derek86 (02-01-2018), minidd99 (04-03-2018)
  #2  
Old 01-31-2018, 03:00 PM
2017All4's Avatar
2017All4 2017All4 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: California Native still livin' in LaLa Land
Posts: 1,349
Thanked 96 Times in 92 Posts
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS:: New & Used Gen1 OE & Aftermarket Parts wrnchhd MINI Parts for Sale 11 09-04-2014 02:47 PM
selling my used '02, buying a used S... what year?! kerikino 1st Gear 8 02-22-2011 05:35 PM
What are some things to look for when buying a used... excuse me, pre-owned MINI? jeffcaplan R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) 5 01-24-2007 02:46 PM
Buying a used MINI tubular10 1st Gear 2 02-15-2006 10:34 AM
Need help in buying a used Mini SMini R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) 2 07-20-2003 06:40 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:21 PM.


North American Motoring is an independently operated web site supporting MINI owners and enthusiastsworldwide. As such it has no official relationship with MINI USA, BMW AG, or BMW of North America.All original artwork and design is Copyright © 2002-2004 North American Motoring.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.