R60 Does this car have any competition?
Does this car have any competition?
I have driven many other small crossovers recently trying to find the right choice for the family. I have not found one with the Driving Characteristics of the CMS/ALL4, period.
Some may be more feature rich, and some are most certainly less expensive, but none can even hold a candle to the Mini's positive driving character and feeling of certainty at the wheel.
The only one that came close was the older Acura RDX. The newer example is huge and drives like it looks, BIG.
Others sampled compared to CMSALL4:
2012 VW Tiguan 4Motion SEL (19" wheels option):
Squishy and moderately responsive handeling, average auto transmission, great options and larger space, tried and true 2.0L turbo4.
2013 Ford Escape Titanium 4WD:
Better than average ride, 1.6 eco-boost better suited than 2.0 eco-boost, 2.0 is too punchy, great technology galore, moderate steering feedback, interior has just above average fit and finish.
2013 Ford Focus ST:
Competition in terms of size, pedal array does not allow for good heel-toe braking, good connection to the road via the four corners but more vague through the steering wheel compared to a Mini/BMW, not very well thought-out/executed.
The CMS is precise and nimble and topples the above with ease when concerning driver feel.
Any other suggestions I am missing, let me know.
aaron
Some may be more feature rich, and some are most certainly less expensive, but none can even hold a candle to the Mini's positive driving character and feeling of certainty at the wheel.
The only one that came close was the older Acura RDX. The newer example is huge and drives like it looks, BIG.
Others sampled compared to CMSALL4:
2012 VW Tiguan 4Motion SEL (19" wheels option):
Squishy and moderately responsive handeling, average auto transmission, great options and larger space, tried and true 2.0L turbo4.
2013 Ford Escape Titanium 4WD:
Better than average ride, 1.6 eco-boost better suited than 2.0 eco-boost, 2.0 is too punchy, great technology galore, moderate steering feedback, interior has just above average fit and finish.
2013 Ford Focus ST:
Competition in terms of size, pedal array does not allow for good heel-toe braking, good connection to the road via the four corners but more vague through the steering wheel compared to a Mini/BMW, not very well thought-out/executed.
The CMS is precise and nimble and topples the above with ease when concerning driver feel.
Any other suggestions I am missing, let me know.
aaron
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: Keller, TX
I have driven many other small crossovers recently trying to find the right choice for the family. I have not found one with the Driving Characteristics of the CMS/ALL4, period.
Some may be more feature rich, and some are most certainly less expensive, but none can even hold a candle to the Mini's positive driving character and feeling of certainty at the wheel.
The only one that came close was the older Acura RDX. The newer example is huge and drives like it looks, BIG.
Others sampled compared to CMSALL4:
2012 VW Tiguan 4Motion SEL (19" wheels option):
Squishy and moderately responsive handeling, average auto transmission, great options and larger space, tried and true 2.0L turbo4.
2013 Ford Escape Titanium 4WD:
Better than average ride, 1.6 eco-boost better suited than 2.0 eco-boost, 2.0 is too punchy, great technology galore, moderate steering feedback, interior has just above average fit and finish.
2013 Ford Focus ST:
Competition in terms of size, pedal array does not allow for good heel-toe braking, good connection to the road via the four corners but more vague through the steering wheel compared to a Mini/BMW, not very well thought-out/executed.
The CMS is precise and nimble and topples the above with ease when concerning driver feel.
Any other suggestions I am missing, let me know.
aaron
Some may be more feature rich, and some are most certainly less expensive, but none can even hold a candle to the Mini's positive driving character and feeling of certainty at the wheel.
The only one that came close was the older Acura RDX. The newer example is huge and drives like it looks, BIG.
Others sampled compared to CMSALL4:
2012 VW Tiguan 4Motion SEL (19" wheels option):
Squishy and moderately responsive handeling, average auto transmission, great options and larger space, tried and true 2.0L turbo4.
2013 Ford Escape Titanium 4WD:
Better than average ride, 1.6 eco-boost better suited than 2.0 eco-boost, 2.0 is too punchy, great technology galore, moderate steering feedback, interior has just above average fit and finish.
2013 Ford Focus ST:
Competition in terms of size, pedal array does not allow for good heel-toe braking, good connection to the road via the four corners but more vague through the steering wheel compared to a Mini/BMW, not very well thought-out/executed.
The CMS is precise and nimble and topples the above with ease when concerning driver feel.
Any other suggestions I am missing, let me know.
aaron
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: N. Muskegon, Mi
A new competitor is going to be available at the end of this month, the Subaru XV Crosstrek . It is actually a neat car and besides the lack of power I find it interesting. Not interesting enough for me to own one, but if my mom buys one I wouldn't mind borrowing it for the day.
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/index.html
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/index.html
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
A new competitor is going to be available at the end of this month, the Subaru XV Crosstrek . It is actually a neat car and besides the lack of power I find it interesting. Not interesting enough for me to own one, but if my mom buys one I wouldn't mind borrowing it for the day.
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/index.html
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/index.html
X1: possibly the closest current competitor.
Juke: Not really close with its CVT and smaller, less usable stature. Does not feel as solid either.
Crosstrek: Absolutely not! The driving dynamics are way off. More so off-road purpose built. Fit and finish on level with rest of Subies.
Q3: Quite possibly.
Outlander: Again, fit and finish and driving dynamics are substancially sub-par.
Cx-5: Under-powered. More comparable to a Justa Countryman. Still not as well executed/though out.
$.02 by,
aaron
Juke: Not really close with its CVT and smaller, less usable stature. Does not feel as solid either.
Crosstrek: Absolutely not! The driving dynamics are way off. More so off-road purpose built. Fit and finish on level with rest of Subies.
Q3: Quite possibly.
Outlander: Again, fit and finish and driving dynamics are substancially sub-par.
Cx-5: Under-powered. More comparable to a Justa Countryman. Still not as well executed/though out.
$.02 by,
aaron
Looks like I'm sold!
Working on a 2013 VW Jetta GLI, Loaded!
Checks all the boxes, some slightly lighter than others, but more than the CMS4; for us.
More space.
Tight ride.
Features Galore!
Simply LOVE the car.
Wish me luck.
aaron
Working on a 2013 VW Jetta GLI, Loaded!
Checks all the boxes, some slightly lighter than others, but more than the CMS4; for us.
More space.
Tight ride.
Features Galore!
Simply LOVE the car.
Wish me luck.
aaron
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^ As a VW business owner & 20+yr VW enthusiast I made the switch to the CM because I wanted AWD w/ Manual.
When I started cross shopping i of corse looked at the Tiggy & the GLI. The Tiguan had horrid milage & was just kind of boring. My friend has one, loaded.
The GLI is a great pkg & one of the best bangs for the buck IMO. However, my wife simply did not like the styling.
I will say that I think VW interiors are wayyy better & the build quality is the same or better. You will be happy w/the GLI.
Anyways as far as competitors in its class?
Small crossovers, small displacement turbos, offering AWD..
BMW X1- pricier, more powerful, less 'colorfull' version of the CMS4. A tad bland & overpriced IMO.
Nissan Juke- quirky, unique, fun?, decent mpg,
RR Evoke- lux Crossover, $20K more, so so handling
Suzuki SX4- entry level version of the All4, less lux, less$, better bargain
Buick(new, I forget the name) Supposed to be a mini lux Enclave(American comfort, 1.4T, good MPG, likely American handling)
Audi A3- more wagon, less lifted, more lux, better handling, a great pricey small car. no AWD w/ Man. Does have a nice TDI & best interior of the post.
Honda Fit, Scion XB & a few other in this size, most do not offer AWD, nor turbo.
Then there are the AWD versions but these are typically bigger
When I started cross shopping i of corse looked at the Tiggy & the GLI. The Tiguan had horrid milage & was just kind of boring. My friend has one, loaded.
The GLI is a great pkg & one of the best bangs for the buck IMO. However, my wife simply did not like the styling.
I will say that I think VW interiors are wayyy better & the build quality is the same or better. You will be happy w/the GLI.
Anyways as far as competitors in its class?
Small crossovers, small displacement turbos, offering AWD..
BMW X1- pricier, more powerful, less 'colorfull' version of the CMS4. A tad bland & overpriced IMO.
Nissan Juke- quirky, unique, fun?, decent mpg,
RR Evoke- lux Crossover, $20K more, so so handling
Suzuki SX4- entry level version of the All4, less lux, less$, better bargain
Buick(new, I forget the name) Supposed to be a mini lux Enclave(American comfort, 1.4T, good MPG, likely American handling)
Audi A3- more wagon, less lifted, more lux, better handling, a great pricey small car. no AWD w/ Man. Does have a nice TDI & best interior of the post.
Honda Fit, Scion XB & a few other in this size, most do not offer AWD, nor turbo.
Then there are the AWD versions but these are typically bigger
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: New York, NY
From a visual design perspective the Jetta GLI seems like a totally different segment as its a pretty much a sedate sedan. (The same thing keeps me from getting too excited about a lot of BMW and Mercedes cars that others seem to love.) I've got to say there isn't too many similar cars that I'm attracted to.
After first thinking it was bizarre and totally wrong I think I've come around on the Nissan Juke. I like the suicide doors and the fact that it looks so different from the other Nissan CUV/SUVs - I'm not sure I can tell the difference between a Rogue and a Murano without looking at the back.
I can't decide about something like the Kia Soul, but it's at least a little interesting. The Evoque looks good too, but I think the price puts it out of being in the same conversation.
Heck, the first time I saw a Countryman I didn't like it. Part of my initial dislike of it was that the first few I saw were dark colors with a body color roof, which really cuts down on what makes Minis different I my eyes.
After first thinking it was bizarre and totally wrong I think I've come around on the Nissan Juke. I like the suicide doors and the fact that it looks so different from the other Nissan CUV/SUVs - I'm not sure I can tell the difference between a Rogue and a Murano without looking at the back.
I can't decide about something like the Kia Soul, but it's at least a little interesting. The Evoque looks good too, but I think the price puts it out of being in the same conversation.
Heck, the first time I saw a Countryman I didn't like it. Part of my initial dislike of it was that the first few I saw were dark colors with a body color roof, which really cuts down on what makes Minis different I my eyes.
The GLI is completely not in the same class, unless you are considering perspective and in what order...
I value...
1. Driving (as in Driver's car potential)
2. MPG
3. Quality
4. Overall visual/tactile impression
5. Price
6. Winter capability
... all of which are very close.
From this I valued my choices and finally came to the GLI conclusion; I think.
aaron
I value...
1. Driving (as in Driver's car potential)
2. MPG
3. Quality
4. Overall visual/tactile impression
5. Price
6. Winter capability
... all of which are very close.
From this I valued my choices and finally came to the GLI conclusion; I think.
aaron
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Palm Harbor FL
Every new Vw I have owned which has been a Jetta, Gti, Passat has start to break at around the 2 year mark. They are great cars but I would lease not buy if you just had to have one. I almost pulled the trigger on a jetta sport wagen but went with Countryman instead.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
The CM has an advantage with bigger back seats, for sure!
my $.02
-bg8
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
The GLI is completely not in the same class, unless you are considering perspective and in what order...
I value...
1. Driving (as in Driver's car potential)
2. MPG
3. Quality
4. Overall visual/tactile impression
5. Price
6. Winter capability
... all of which are very close.
From this I valued my choices and finally came to the GLI conclusion; I think.
aaron
I value...
1. Driving (as in Driver's car potential)
2. MPG
3. Quality
4. Overall visual/tactile impression
5. Price
6. Winter capability
... all of which are very close.
From this I valued my choices and finally came to the GLI conclusion; I think.
aaron
1.) Driving, that'd be a bit of a split.
2.) Probably have to give is to the CM. it gets slightly better MPG than my A3 did (same engine as the GLI.)
3.) Probably another tie.
4.) Definitely give this one to the CM. While the MK6 Jetta looks vastly better than the MKV, it just isn't the head turner it once was. Not quite an appliance like an Accord or Camry, but pretty close.
5.) Another wash.
6.) Winter. Not even close. Even with all seasons, I had trouble in my A3. Ended up wi a second set of winter wheels / snow tires. Never had trouble with it, but no question the CMS4 is going to be world's better.
Still I think you'll love the GLI. Just surprised if you were looking for the CMS4, or something similar, that the GLI checked off all the boxes.
As a VW enthusiast, I'm not really seeing how, if you were looking for something in the CMS4 segment, a GLI would have checked off all the boxes.
1.) Driving, that'd be a bit of a split.
2.) Probably have to give is to the CM. it gets slightly better MPG than my A3 did (same engine as the GLI.)
3.) Probably another tie.
4.) Definitely give this one to the CM. While the MK6 Jetta looks vastly better than the MKV, it just isn't the head turner it once was. Not quite an appliance like an Accord or Camry, but pretty close.
5.) Another wash.
6.) Winter. Not even close. Even with all seasons, I had trouble in my A3. Ended up wi a second set of winter wheels / snow tires. Never had trouble with it, but no question the CMS4 is going to be world's better.
Still I think you'll love the GLI. Just surprised if you were looking for the CMS4, or something similar, that the GLI checked off all the boxes.
1.) Driving, that'd be a bit of a split.
2.) Probably have to give is to the CM. it gets slightly better MPG than my A3 did (same engine as the GLI.)
3.) Probably another tie.
4.) Definitely give this one to the CM. While the MK6 Jetta looks vastly better than the MKV, it just isn't the head turner it once was. Not quite an appliance like an Accord or Camry, but pretty close.
5.) Another wash.
6.) Winter. Not even close. Even with all seasons, I had trouble in my A3. Ended up wi a second set of winter wheels / snow tires. Never had trouble with it, but no question the CMS4 is going to be world's better.
Still I think you'll love the GLI. Just surprised if you were looking for the CMS4, or something similar, that the GLI checked off all the boxes.
Great!
All the parts that should've been changed (read, made BETTER), were. Front bumper, side skirts, rear valance, wheels, suspension (multi-link), and interior were all seriously replaced.
As far as winter goes, we live in Boulder, CO. Driving a Prius with awesome winter tires even up in the mountains was a dandy experience! The GLI would be no different, if not better with more power! Sure AWD is great for adverse traction conditions, but a solid FWD with good tires does a fantastic job, as does a solid RWD car with great snow tires.
It check all the boxes; and has considerably MORE INTERIOR SPACE (forgot to add that earlier).
aaron
I was in a similar scenario recently. We absolutely LOVE our R56 Hardtop, so the Countryman was an obvious choice when we decided we needed a more family-friendly vehicle. But, as much as we wanted to love the Countryman, it just doesn't compare favorably to the eventual 'winner'... the GLI's brother, the GTI.
To be fair, the Countryman does have more 'character', but that's about it. Back when we bought our MINI, it beat out the GTI because it had more character, better driving dynamics, better gas mileage, and it was a hair cheaper.
Because of the added weight, the Countryman Cooper is, well, pretty sluggish... even compared to our Cooper R56 which is no speed demon. Also, since my wife felt like she wanted an automatic for transporting kids, that made it even worse. So, it was Countryman S vs. GTI.
Compared to the CMS, the GTI has:
-Better driving dynamics (it's faster than a Cooper S HARDTOP around a track)
-Similar gas mileage
-More power
-Far better auto transmission (DSG... really an automated manual)
-Better interior
-More useful space
... and to top it all off, for the price of our GTI, we could have only bought a lightly optioned CM Cooper. A CMS would have been a few thousand more, easily.
I don't write all this to bash the CM. We like it. We just couldn't justify it because the GTI is, in our opinion, superior in almost every measurable way. I just hope some of these issues are resolved so that, in the future, we can daily drive TWO MINIs, instead of just one :D
To be fair, the Countryman does have more 'character', but that's about it. Back when we bought our MINI, it beat out the GTI because it had more character, better driving dynamics, better gas mileage, and it was a hair cheaper.
Because of the added weight, the Countryman Cooper is, well, pretty sluggish... even compared to our Cooper R56 which is no speed demon. Also, since my wife felt like she wanted an automatic for transporting kids, that made it even worse. So, it was Countryman S vs. GTI.
Compared to the CMS, the GTI has:
-Better driving dynamics (it's faster than a Cooper S HARDTOP around a track)
-Similar gas mileage
-More power
-Far better auto transmission (DSG... really an automated manual)
-Better interior
-More useful space
... and to top it all off, for the price of our GTI, we could have only bought a lightly optioned CM Cooper. A CMS would have been a few thousand more, easily.
I don't write all this to bash the CM. We like it. We just couldn't justify it because the GTI is, in our opinion, superior in almost every measurable way. I just hope some of these issues are resolved so that, in the future, we can daily drive TWO MINIs, instead of just one :D
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