I've been in a conundrum over the past couple months. I brought my 2011 MCS in for routine maintenance and asked to borrow an ALL4 CM for the weekend to "give it a shot." They lent me an ALL4 6MT. Yes, of course it handles well and feels tight, but...

1. Feels very heavy, all around (front and rear).
2. Absolutely under-powered. Lotsa turbo-lag driving up the mountains here in Boulder, CO is simply a DRAG.
3. Clutch take-up feels weak, like the tranny just isn't mated well enough to the heavy girl and ALL4 wheels.

So... I recently test drove the CMS 6AT and the 6MT. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Feels close enough to my MCS and everything feels much better mated. Didn't quite like the AT nearly as much as the MT though.

I can't justify the ALL4 unless you select the 6AT and add a decent power tune, but those are still just being introduced and the LAG will be there and happy!

Feedback is certainly welcome.

aaron

 

Some people need all wheel drive or they have to get down in the nasty dirty snow and install chains on the side of the highway because of local laws.
It's like another tax: we pay more for our cars and we don't get the spry handling. I wouldn't even have the CM if it were not for that chain requirement. It may sound like I'm complaining but in reality I couldn't care less since I have three other fast and fun cars and the CM is the snow / dog car. It's leaps and bounds better than the Jeep GC it replaced and has done everything I need it to so far.

 

Because you don't drive base models

 

We live here in Boulder, CO with the Rockys in our backyard. You do not need AWD here or really anywhere else from our experience. Simple snow/studded/chained tires and FWD. AWD can help, but I do not think the trade off is worth it in the CM.

Thanks for your feedback Fredoin.

 

Ahhhh, That's because you live in a sensible state my friend.

I lived in MI for years and drove 36k miles a year through MI, OH, PA, and IN in all sorts of weather with RWD BMW's and snow tires for my job. Never had a problem, never been stranded, never had a wreck. Then I move to CA and the state blocks the road and checks for chains the second they smell two flakes of snow. 4WD gets you through without installing chains. After several years of dealing with the develish things and getting slushed by passing semis then getting dirt on the fine BMW napa or pearl leather, I gave in and bought the Jeep for the weekly drives through the Sierras.

 

Im also in CO, and while AWD probably isn't needed, it sure as heck comes in handy when you have a 140 mile a day commute, and you HAVE to be at work on a snowy day!

I have never even driven another MINI other than my All4, so I nothing to comare it to. I do make the trip to Craig from Denver once every few weeks and have never thought it felt under powerd in the mountains. The clutch up-take out of first is another story though. . .It is the one thing I HATE about this car.

 

My wife has had her All4 for a little over a year and just shy of 30k miles. For her--with two kids and commuting from near Brighton to Boulder every day--the All4 is EXACTLY what she has wanted: a sporty car that can manage the winter driving in Colorado. Could a standard FWD gotten her through? Sure. But the All4 adds confidence and reliability that a FWD--snow tires, studs, or otherwise--just can't hold a candle to (for her). So, there you have it.

 

Don't have All4. From what MINI says another good reason is that it eliminates torque steer. When the light turns green and I mash Zaftig's go pedal - he goes fast in any direction - except straight.

Sealy - Who had to clean his lounge leather the first time he did it.

 

I started out with a Base CM 6MT and it made it through winter just fine with snow tires. Granted it was one of the warmest winters we had in years in Michigan, but we did go out and play in 6-8" of fresh snowfall and it was like a tank. That said, we now own a CMs All4 6MT. After going back and forth about the ALL4 vs. CMS we decided to get the All4 for those just in case moments. I will say the CMS felt faster and lighter, but the torque steer got annoying, the All4 doesn't have that. Sure it is a tad slower, but it feels more like a tank like my CM base did and I like that. I pray that we have a snowpocalypse this year so that I can go play in my All4 with snow tires.

 

Does anyone here regret buying an ALL4 or a FWD CMS?

It seems a couple of you have commented on the torque steer of the CMS. Driving a MCS which has moderate torque steer the CMS feels mighty tame to me.

Thank you everyone for your feedback thus far. Posts like this can help the community significantly when attempting to make the imperial decision of ALL4 or not. Let's keep it going.

aaron

 

I recently had my '12 CMS AT into the dealer and was given a '12 CMS ALL4 AT as a loaner. Personally, I'm glad I didn't buy the ALL4. On a scale of 1 to 10 for spirited driving, the ALL4 certainly places a few integers lower than the CMS. I actually wondered if the dealer didn't somehow "de-tune" the ALL4 because it's a loaner.

Snow here is rare, and there's no practical reason for me to have AWD.

 

Because snow and torque steer.

 

you can feel the extra 250lbs of the system?

FWIW I've had each of the variants as loaners, and the AT All4 didn't compare in power to my 6MT. Felt like I was constantly flooring it and did get some wheel slip, which I've never had in mine.

 

it's about a 7% difference in weight. I just had a CMS FWD as a service loaner and it definitely felt a little quicker than my ALL4. However, the rampant torque steer killed the driving experience, IMO. My ALL4 is very stable, especially accelerating out of tight corners. Ditching the POS runflats has also helped a lot.

Now sure why Minis have such a problem with torque steer...it was never a huge issue in previous FWD cars I've owned, even a modded 1.8T GTI with 240 lb-ft.

 

I had the exact same experience. You get more power out of the engine with the MT. I don't know about driving in CO, but everyone there seems to want to be able to drive up the mountains at 90mph so need a twin turbo V8 or it's underpowered.

With the AT I felt you needed to keep it Sport mode to more closely match the performance of the MT, but then if you do that all the time you end up decreasing the life of the tranny while burning more gas.

 

LOL - Our R53 has the same symptoms, but none of our cars go straight anyway. We refer to it as "gaily forward"

 

How does keeping the car in sport mode decrease the life of the transmission?

It makes perfect sense that a manual transmission is going to be quicker than a torque converter automatic, because of the losses associated with the torque converter. Not sure why this is a surprise to anyone.

 

Nailed it! But I appreciate reduced of torque steer also. We are happy with the choice of ALL4.

 

Driving my ALL4s auto feels like I am driving a quality automobile - I don't get that in the 2wd CMS.

Would I love the punch my wife has in her R56? Yes. But I much prefer the driving dynamics of the ALL4s over the small amount of extra zip in the 2wd version and the whoa moment you get when you gas it and have to correct for torque steer.

 

This is precisely why we went with the All4. We did the same test drive route in a FWD CMS and an All4. When coming out of a hard exit on a ramp and getting on the throttle, the CMS pulled hard, but it also jerked the steering wheel making me feel unstable. When we drove the All4 in the same corner, it felt a little slower but it kept right on track and didn't miss a beat. This is what convinced me to go for the All4.

 

I drove them all base MT to Auto All-4... handling is not as aggressive a regular cooper S, nor is the straight line speed, but its a second/third ride that if I want under most conditions wont let me get stuck heading to that cabin in the woods... besides when the bug bites I got a fast ride when need be, and my Cayenne don't seem so sluggish after a week in the mini... but bottom line, she does what we want her to do and truth be told if the Diesel all-4 was offered when last shopped... thats what we would be motoring in ...

 

it won't shift into "6th"

 

insurance is often lower with AWD. Resale will be higher, and the pice of mind with safety. not bad for $1500.

 

Yes it will.

But even if it didn't, why would not shifting into 6th put wear on the transmission?

 

i have the cms not the all4. sure, i push the car once in a while and i anticipate the slight pull but people are making it sound like the car will pull you uncontrollably into another lane. not so, unless of course you are an accelar-a-holic. that said, i would love to have an all4 for the 5 days each year in massachusetts that roads are covered deep in snow but for the remaining 360 days, i didn't want to spend the extra money and sacrifice the spirited ride. so...to each's own.