I apologize for starting a new thread on this, but I'd really like to know the answer to this and I don't want it to be lost:
Has anyone ever seen any authority contradict Mini's assertion that we should let the car's computer tell us when to change the oil?
I know that we all have opinions. I know that many of us have a lot of experience. I know that Mini's guidance leaves many of us puzzled, disdainful, and even angry. But has anyone seen anything published by someone or some organization that pretty much all of us would agree is a legitimate authority that says Mini has many of us risking our engines' performance and/or longevity by following Mini's instructions?

This is from "Ask the Product Manager" on MiniUSA's owner section:

How often should I get the oil changed? Should I just leave it to the computer in the car?
-Neil T
Oh yes, the computer in your car is the all-knowing brain behind your MINI’s operations. If the engine room says that your MINI needs an oil change, it will tell you. Of course, the frequency of the oil change may vary, depending on driving conditions and habits, so keep that in mind should your vehicle’s on-board computer tell you to have your oil changed at varying intervals. Good thing for you, oil changes are at no cost for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles after delivery.

 

The interesting thing about a forum is that the answer to your question will vary depending on who responds. As far as changing oil when the computer says it's time, is up to you. I am not aware of any "authority" that advises differently, although some of us choose to change more frequently.

Some consider this a waste of oil and money, but I can't imagine any adverse effects. For peace of mind you might consider sending oil samples for analysis.

So let's see what others have to say. You might even get lucky and have an "authority" appear. Certainly, no one has ever accused me of being an authority.

 

I think the qualifying statement from MiniUSA is "depending on your driving habits". Personally, and I'm no expert but I feel more comfortable with changing mine at 7500 intervals especially if you have the type S car due to the greater heat impact on the engine.
Just my own assessment.

 

Yes, "depending on driving habits" qualifies MINI's statement. I think the best advice that I most often see on this forum is if you plan to keep your MINI for a long long time, then it pays to be proactive and do the oil changes every 7500 miles instead of every 15000 miles. It's cheap, and it can't hurt to just do that. It's what I plan to do:

1- Oil change after break-in period.
2- 7,500 miles
3- 15,000 miles (free)
and so on every 7,500 miles.

 

On WhiteRoofRadio I have heard Chad Miller from Detroit Tuned (a shop that specializes in MINIs) say that he recommends 5,000 mile change intervals to his customers if they plan to keep their car long-term (read that here: Detroit Tuned MINI Oil Filter 2007+). Tom and Ray, the brothers who host Car Talk on NPR, also recommend a 5,000 mile change interval. You can read that here: Car Talk Service Advice: Oil Changes

As hearsay, I was in my dealer's service area about a month ago and overheard a SA trying to explain to a customer that they needed a new engine. The car in question had 81,000 miles on it, and according to MINI service records had received a total of three oil changes. The customer was adamant that the car had been serviced when the computer said to do it. I don't know how the story ended, but that didn't sound like a strong recommendation to blindly follow the computer's advice.

 

While reading the links above, I noted Car Talks admonition:

"You may want to consider changing your oil more frequently if:

• You drive like a knucklehead: jackrabbit starts, heavy acceleration or high-speed driving"

You don't suppose they are referring to MINI drivers, do you??

 

The authority I would reference is MINI's parent company (BMW) prior to the 1997 model year.
Prior to that, recommended oil changes were much shorter, brake fluid was yearly, coolant every two years, transmission fluid varied (automatics were every 15k I believe) and you could not change filters and wiper blades often enough.
With 1997 models, BMW introduced included (it's not free) maintenance. Nothing changed. The engines and transmission were the same, fluids were the same, but the intervals increased. Other than magically extended service intervals, the only thing that really changed was who was paying for the maintenance work.

The old maintenance schedules were driven by engineers who built the cars to last at least 300k miles, not the marketing department. Some maintenance items may have been a little overboard, but the cars would last.

1997 is a long time ago, so for a more current argument, my BMW service manager justifies the long service interval on my 650i due to the fact that the monster non turbo 4.8L V8 holds 8.5 quart of synthetic oil. BMW's theory is that the large oil capacity and lack of turbo results in lower operating temperature, therefore the oil does not degrade as fast and can last for one year / 15k miles. It seems logical, but if synthetic oil, large oil capacity and lower engine operating temps are the three factors that justify long oil service, the MINI Cooper S motor fails on at least two of the criteria.

 

Thanks, that's really informative!

 

One the other hand, BMW could have been updating their previously too-conservative change intervals based on advances in materials and newer synthetic lubricants. These changes could have been a result of extensive testing programs, and not an attempt to deceive owners. Other German auto companies also have adapted long change intervals.

I would also note that synthetic oil companies had been advertising for many years previous to 1997 that their products were good for long change intervals.

 

Question-

If you change your engine oil before the computer tells you to, doesn't it just delay the computer from telling you that you need one, i.e. if it would have told you that you needed one at 15,000 miles but you changed it at 7,500, wouldn't the next time the computer told you that you that you needed an oil change be 22,500?...does that make sense? If you kept changing it on your own dime before the computer told you to would you ever be able to take advantage of your free maintenance plan?

 

No, a service must be entered by a person into the computer. It can't detect an oil change.

 

I'll be changing my wife's MCS at 7500k with Mobil1 5w30 and my Countryman (has 550 miles now) at 5000k with the same Mobil1 5w30.

I don't trust 15k with any oil.

 

Maybe one way to settle this is to have two motor oil tests done by Blackstone Labs ( http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php ). I'll send in my 7,500 mile oil and if someone who is going to go the full 15k miles wants to participate, I'll mail you a pre-paid test kit, all you have to do is be honest about the mileage on the oil and share the results. PM me if interested.

 

FYI I would use Mobil1 0w40 full synth. the 5w30 does not meet bmw LL01 specs. 0w40 is what i used with my r56 mcs and also all my other bmws after they came off the "free" maintenance. My former daily driver 2002 330i auto had 265K miles. Had the 15K oil change interval for the first 100K miles then I switched to 7500mile interval for the other 165K miles. I cracked open the valve cover to do a VANOS rebuild at 180K miles and the inside of the cover was as clean as it can be. I sold the car to a friend and he still drives it and engine still runs very strong. He decided to stick to my 7500mile oil change interval including mobile1 0w40.


5w30 spec: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_5W-30.aspx



0w40 spec: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx

 

mellowmcs,

Thanks for the oil links! It's interesting that the 0W40 has a higher viscosity at all temperatures than the 5W30. I would have thought that one would be more fluid at low temps, and the other at high temps. Isn't that what the 0W and 40 designation stands for?

Mark

 

Wow, ok cool, thanks for providing this, I didn't know about the BMW LL01 specs. I'll be using the 0w-40 instead.

 

Acceptable oils for the MINI are listed on the MINIUSA's Owner's Lounge. The other requirement in addition to the LL01 spec for turbocharged MINI's is the ACEA A3/B3 ratings. On the list from the Owner's Lounge only a few of the oils are readily available. The MINI 5W-30 oil, Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula and a Castrol 0W-30 European Formula all have the LL01 and ACEA A3/B3 ratings and are readily available. The Mobil 1 0W-40 is the easiest to find, even at WalMart, the Castrol 0W-30 is sometimes in stock at AutoZone, and of course MINI oil is available at the dealer.

 

I wish I could find Castrol 0W-30 Euro formula, where I live, I used to be able to find them in very small numbers from time to time but not anymore. So I stick to mobil1 0w-40. Sometimes when I can find a MINI dealer having a sale on oil I buy that but it's very rare.

 

Here is a series of four Blackstone reports that show the MINI oil change is too long- at least on my vehicle-R55. Read from right to left.

The second analysis was from the oil on the recommended interval--it was over 16K and the wear metals and silicon were high, and the TBN showed the additives were shot. I changed the air filter as well at Blackstone's recommendation.

After two more oil changes, the values have all normalized after shortening the oil change intervals! Dealer did all changes with MINI oil.

(for you math geniuses, there was an interval oil change between the first and second sample)

If it wasn't my car, I would run the next interval out to the reminder light, to have a good ABAB test. If enough of you all want to chip into the new engine fund, I'll be glad to do it

 

Hello I picked up my new countryman S today ( can't wait to get thru 1,200 gentle miles), the window sticker says "oil chg 10,000 Mls/12 months included". The onboard computer is saying 9K to first service. I could not tell you where the post is but while spending hours browsing posts waiting for delivery there is one that directs you to a Ferrari site with a paper by an oil engineer - worth reading and also supports the 0-W40.

 

Interesting, where are you located?

 

Connecticut

 

I remember reading a post that may be the one you refer to?

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

 

I was thinking the same....mine is 15000

Different grade oil depends on where u live as well.....I'm in Virginia and all my cars have been 10w30 or 5w30.. Ford explore, grand am, 1500 dodge ram, Subaru wrx and now the countryman....

If u use less oil.....less money into the oil companies pocket...supply and demand people....

BMW has their **** straight....listen to the car...if u drive hard, the car will know!

I use royal purple on every single car too!!!

 

There is another thread started within the past week or so by someone who also had the 9,000 showing up on their OBC. Their MA or SA indicated to them that MINI has changed the program effective with 03/2012 builds.