That is the question.

So we thought we have decided on a MC automatic tranny...
But as I was thinking about it last night, why not get a MCS auto to give it the extra umph. I test drove the MC auto and was okay with it, though could use more power. Haven't test driven MCS auto, but would like to hear from anyone out there who has one. Is it worth the extra $3K? Also, is your insurance premium any different due to the higher horse power on the MCS? We'd probably get the sport package but no LSD.

No, stick shift is out of the question, wifey doesn't drive stick (I know it's supposed to be easier to learn on MINI, but she is not interested).

Also did you know that the value of aa used MINI is the same regardless of auto or manual tranny according to the KBB (eventhough auto cost $1.3K more new) - interesting...

Many thanks in advance.

 

Depends how you drive and what you want the car for. I had a MC (manual) and ended up spending $1000 in mods because I wanted more. I always saw the MCS around town and started wishing that I had spent the extra $. I then saw my dream MCS for a good deal and went for it, so in the end it cost me more than if I would have just bought the MCS. I was very happy with the MC though, I just wanted more.

Going from MC to MCS on my insurance raised the premium $3 a month, FYI.

 

I was looking at that decision when I drove both and ended up not liking the auto so I ended up with a MCS and not a MCSa. If you can afford the $ difference go with the S you will not regret it at all and there is a significant difference between the acceleration between MC and MCS even with a auto.

Just my opinion but I just went through that decision process last month.

 

I think you should drive it and judge for your self but I think you'll flip to the S.

 

S - is there really a question?

We waited until there was a MCSa until we bought an 05 for my wife. I felt the car was great....until I picked up my 06 MCS manual!

All in all, the auto S is great - the tranny shifts well, and pretty much where you would expect it to. The car is tight and pretty quick. And, my wife LOVEs it!

-jac

 

S. S. S.....

If you are not happy with the power of the MC, the feeling ain't going to go away.... get the S...S...S...

 

there is no question. It is always S

besides just the preformance it has a lot of other good stuff as well as a better look in my opinion. Gotta love the hood line and scoop

 

coming from a MCSa owner... go MC for an automatic... MUCH more reliable...

now if you are going to get a manual... mmmm S all the way!!!!!!!!

(and if you want to mod the MC, there are still a few options for you to do)

 

Qualifier: I just passed the break in period on my MCSCa, so I do not speak from years of experience.

Okay, in the MCa, that jolt from 1st-2nd is annoying. In the MCSa it is non-existent. Add in all of the other cool stuff that comes with the "S" and the value of that extra $3000 becomes apparent. It did for me at least.

Have fun!

 

Go for the S. When we were shopping for one for my wife last May, we took a MCa out. We both felt that it was underpowered with an automatic especially with the AC on. The S has so much more zip to it and makes merging into traffic so much easier (and less stressful). These comments only apply to the automatic as I have never driven a stick MC - test drove the S stick and fell in love. My wife loves her 2005 MCSa.

 

Actually, its not really 3K. More like 2, once you factor in the suspension and seats upgrades in the MCS. OTOH, over the life of the car the MC will certainly do better than the S so you'll get some $$$ back there over time. That said, were I buying a automatic, I would certainly opt for the S.

 

If I were buying again today I would save the $3000. After getting MC's for dealer visits

The satisfaction in this car is the handling ...Not the acceleration. You will be happy either way. Just lighter in the pocket if you get the S

 

Age old question. I say get the S, I have it and wouldn't be without. Also get the manual, I know I know the wife doesn't want to learn, but look around here, there are many couples who ended up having to get two MINIs B/c one spouse wouldn't relinquish the keys. Plus I think its more fun, even if I'm in traffic.

 

I'm not a closet go speed racer. I don't want to arrive by skidding in sideways. And I care little whether my hood has a scoop in it or not.

I simply want to enjoy the car, and part of that is spending wisely up front. My take: the car is fun to drive in the MC form with a manual tranny. The less efficient automatic tranny is right on the border. For me, I got the MC Manual and have never looked back. If I were to get an Automatic, I'd bump the horsepower up to the MCS.

Hope that helps.

 

dude-

my step mom got the automatic s, before I even got my mini. I went to test drive the cooper, as that was what the original budget suggested. I wound up being so frustrated with the lack of power I convinced my dad to loan me the extra $ to upgrade to the 'S' until I could pay him back later this summer! Granted, I am an 18yr old male, and probably too young to be driving such a beast (Save the he's a reckless moron who doesn't know anything comments, I am MUCH more careful now than I was when I first owned the car) and speed is what I am all about, and I also got a stick. But, as I see it, there's no way you could live with a cooper. My friends all ask me, "What if you had gotten the base model cooper?" and I shudder at the thought. Do yourself a favor, pay the extra 3 grand, get the meaner and tougher and faster car, and that little more oomph. you'll thank all of us later.

Chris

 

I'd go with the MC CVT, it's a great transmission which she can leave in automatic mode while you can manually shift it if you want to.

 

You guys make me laugh.

My Cooper on the top, BMWCCA instructor in his S on the bottom:
http://homepage.mac.com/jtross/CooperVsS.mov
the audio is only my car

 

I own both, so I am qualified to express an opinion....

We have a '02 MC CVT with 35K miles and a '05 MCS 6-speed manual with 9K miles. Both cars are an absolute hoot to drive.

The Cooper and the Cooper S are different cars in their day to day demeanor. After owning 1 MC CVT and 2 MCS (My first MCS was a 2004 with the old gear ratios) is that neither car is superior to the other. Rather, each model has its own pluses and minues:

Cooper CVT:

Positives

* Very frugal when it comes to gas consumption. We currently get 31 MPG in the city with the A/C on and we have managed to get up to 39-40 MPG with the cruise control firmly set @ 70MPH in "Normal" transmission mode during numerous roadtrips.

*The CVT transmission is an engineering marvel. Sturdy, relaible and turbine smooth. You have 3 driving modes: Normal, Sport and 6-speed steptronic (Like in the MCS automatic) but with the exception that you don't get the steering wheel paddles (At least they have never been available in the US but they are offered in Canada and elsewhere in the world).

* The CVT transmission requires *SKILL* to get the most out of it. Yes, this is not your everyday 4-speed automatic transmission. It takes time to learn all what it can do in each and every driving scenario.

* The Cooper is lighter upfront than the Cooper S. This means sharper, more nimble handling.

*The Cooper has a faster ratio steering response than the Cooper S. I never understood why BMW dialed in the steering ratio response differently in both cars.

* The Cooper has a more "Classic" cleaner look. Looks fantastic with the standard chrome and generally it is more faithful to the classic Mini (Light and simple).

* 115 HP and 111 pounds feet of torque may not sound like much, but make no mistake: The Cooper is a pretty quick car and you can easily approach scary speeds if you are not watching the speedometer needle.

* The Cooper is cheaper to run, insure and buy.

*The Cooper can be ordered with lightweight 15" rims fitted with radial tires or 16" runflats and rims. Either case, you still get a spare tire in the back.

* The Cooper can be ordered with the Sport Suspension Plus (SS+) which is the same suspension setup as standard equipment in the Cooper S. With the weight advantage of the Cooper fitted with the SS+ suspension, you can attack the turns as well or maybe better than Cooper S owners.

* The Cooper is all about fuel savings, olde school driving fun and tenacious handling. This car is not about stop light racing contest, and in fact, NO MINI is or ever was intended to be a straight line dragster car. If that's what you want, get a new Ford Mustang V8.

Negatives of the Cooper:

* As far as engine mods is concerned, there is not much you can do. You can spend thousands of dollars and still get very modest power gains.

* Resale value tends to be a tad lower, just because a lot of people overlook the car and opt for the Cooper S instead. 115 horsepower seems to scare people away from it, specially the "Enthusiasts".

* At highway speeds the Cooper tends to be noiser, just because you hear the engine more as you have to juicy it more for passing, etc. Not a big deal, the standard 1.6L engine sounds composed and refined and the exaust note is pleasing to the ear.

* The engine doesn't have much torque down low, so you have to either work the "gears" or for more spirited takeoffs, you can either use "Sport Mode" or "Steptronic" in the CVT.


Positives of the Cooper S:

*More power and substantially more torque (115/168 HP) and (111/162 pounds feet of torque) respectively.

* The Cooper S is tuned more like a Sports Car and a little less than a fuel efficient small hatchback.

* You get Sport Suspension Plus, standard on the Cooper S Hardtop only. The Cooper S convertible gets the softer Sport Suspension found in the regular Cooper.

* You get reinforced engine mechanicals due to the added power and presence of the Eaton supercharger: Reinforced Valves, Piston Cooling Jets and an Engine Oil Cooler.

* You get Sport bucket seats standard.

* You get the vaunted Hood scoop and the chrome fuel door cap. Also you get a more agressive looking spoiler in the rear tailgate, all standard.

* If you are heavely into modding your car, the Cooper S offers a lot of room for performance upgrades. Excellent factory and aftermarket support. The sky and the wallet are the limit (Within the technical limitations of the Supercharged engine).

* The Cooper S can be fitted with the optional Limited Slip Differential, that is, if you opt for the 6-speed manual model. LSD is currenty not available for the Cooper S Automatic.

* The Cooper S can be ordered with the Japanese sourced Aisin 6-speed automatic transmission. Offers same driving modes as the Cooper CVT transmission, but it adds the vaunted steering wheel paddles.

* The Cooper S is ultra smooth in the highway and thanks to the Supercharger, engine grawl is kept low (But you still hear the sweet sound of the supercharger) and passing power is excellent. The Cooper S shines as a highway cruiser, whereas the Cooper model is the better choice for city driving.

* The Cooper S is more generally the more desirable model due to its added performance, stronger mechanicals, mod friendliness and speed. This translates into solid resale values in the second hand market.

* You can order a factory fitted John Cooper Works performance package for an extra $6K. The JCW package bumps the power to 215HP and adds the LSD as standard. When you break the 200HP in the MINI, you need to have LSD period.

Negatives of the Cooper S:

* Uses more fuel. Expect 20-24 MPG in the city and this depends largerly on your driving style and how heavy are you on the accelerator. Still, you come ahead of those ugly SUVs and cars equipped with larger displacement engines. The Cooper S is not intended or tuned to be a fuel miser. It is a sports car, pure and simple.

* Insurance costs may be higher.

* Costlier to service and reapir once it goes out of warranty.

* The car begs to be driven fast, so given the temptation, you may have the opportunity to collect more speeding tickets.

* Styling might not be as clean as the regular Cooper. If you like Chrome, for $200, you can order the exterior chrome package and be more faithful to the classic MINI look and still retain the muscular lines of the Cooper S.

* The Cooper S is heavier up front so it doesn't feel as nimble as the Cooper model. Steering wheel response ratio is a tad slower but perhaps no one will ever notice the difference anyway.

* No spare tire at all. You either depend on the factory fitted runflat tires, or if you ditch the runflats and switch to radials, you must carry a can of "Fix-a-Flat" a cell phone and your raodside assistance card. Others carry a small spare in the back, but not recommended if you need rear boot space.

* Battery is located in the floor of the trunk, not up front inside the engine compartment like the Cooper.

* The automatic transmission in the Cooper S seems to take away some of the performance "Edge" of the car for what I have been told. Don't know, because I have not yet driven the Cooper S automatic model.

* The Cooper S is more expensive to buy, but most people (Including myself) think that the added power, sports car demeanor and upgraded mechanicals are well worth the extra $3K admission price and if you were to do these upgrades in the aftermarket, it will definetely cost you more than $3K to do them.

People that have commented about the Cooper S automatic doesn't seem to be 100% thrilled with the car's performance. Some claim the automatic transmission adds convenience but at the same times takes away some of what makes the car so appealing in terms of performance.

It seems to me, that if you want a Cooper S, you will be better off getting the manual transmission and saving the $1,300 for the automatic.

If you want the Automatic transmission, maybe you'll be fine and dandy with the Cooper CVT.

Either way, it is YOUR CHOICE and ONLY YOURS ALONE. Like John Monk suggested, test drive both models extensively and see which one works best when it comes to needs/wants and budget.

Neither choice is better or worse. Both cars are excellent, but they have different personalities. take the time to see which one of those personalities is the one of your liking.

Good luck.

 

Power corrupts. The MCS is all the rage in Wash. D.C.

 

You just answered your own question right there, imo. If you want a MINI and you want more power, get an MCS....the extra $$$s are worth every penny considering the many upgrades you get.

Not sure about the auto, though...I was not impressed w/ the MCSa personally, but I did not have a chance to explore the nuances of manual shifting mode...the one I drove was in full automatic during my drive. I'm sure...given time to acclimate myself...I would love it!! As for reliability, I defer to my colleagues who are MCSa owners.

For some reason, Cooper owners are simply ga-ga over Coopers...owners like me. I love the stirring the gears, I love the fuel economy, I love the appearance, and I love the way Coopers are balanced between power, handling, braking. But if the desire for more power is definitely on your list of wants...just get an MCS.

 

Who let C4 in here with all that "reason" in their post?

 

Did you know that the biggest market for the MCS is Australia? Nearly 50% of all MINIs registered there, are Cooper S.

 

Having only test driven a MC, MCa and MCS, and owning a MCSa, I can vouch for the automatic.

Mebbe coz I am a newbie and have not yet managed to extract the best out of this car, I have felt no performance shortages in using a MCSa. However, keep in mind that whenever we went out for runs with other more experienced MINI drivers, I have managed to keep up with the pack.

For a beginner, the MCSa offers the best compromise between a automatic and a manual, IMHO.

 

What's the ratio in the USA? There seems to be a MINI on every block in my town (San Francisco) and my uneducated guess is that the S outnumbers the Cooper here. I dunno for sure.

Thanks for the run down of pros and cons. I read it as though I were a first time buyer, appreciated its logic and thoroughness, and then wondered if my decision would not have been based on emotion anyway.

4 friends have Coopers (3 are CVTs). My sister has an S. 3 other friends have Ss. I have an Sa. I try not to think about its eggregious fuel consumption. I have a spare and a pump for long trips. I regret that coffin shaped hood. And the automatic's gearing is too agressive for me. But I love the car.

I have only been in my MINI so I don't really know but I surmise you are right that each has its own character and should not suffer from comparison.

 

forget the mc, forget the mcs go for the jcw...... I did this is the most fun car for the least amount of $$ anywhere. Enjoy