MCSA Tranny Fluid Change

the platform · #1 11-07-2009, 10:19 AM

I have heard rumor and hearsay about the procedure to change the tranny fluid on an MCSA.I've searched and searched...only to come away with vague descriptions of the act.I have asked Danny at MiniCorsa if it can be done.After looking at the car he said "no".Can you fellow MCSA owners report on having seen this event done...either by yourself or professional?....any reports on this mythological event would be greatly appreciated.

ps...Anyone in Cali performing this service??

PenelopeG3 · #2 11-07-2009, 11:47 PM

2006 MCSa here

50k on the car and been thinking of fulshing the oil.

Haven't looked at the tranny yet and haven't asked anyone so I'd love to learn more.

Oxybluecoop · #3 11-08-2009, 01:59 AM

Not a myth as I've done it myself on two occasions.

Crashton · #4 11-08-2009, 05:43 AM

I can see where you'd want to do that change a few times to get a complete change of fluid. The torque converter does not drain, so maybe doing a change three times would be good.

That is what I do on my wifes Subaru. The Subaru has an external filter. Does the MINI have one? If not it is most likely in the pan.

Great info Oxyblue....

pilotart · #5 11-08-2009, 06:12 AM

Tain't easy! see this thread (and page before).

Wonder if a MINI Dealer would have a "FLUSH" setup, (with correct fluid)
a transmission shop would likely want to 'flush' with Dexron.

the platform · #6 11-08-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotart

Tain't easy! see this thread (and page before).

Wonder if a MINI Dealer would have a "FLUSH" setup, (with correct fluid)
a transmission shop would likely want to 'flush' with Dexron.

without reading the whole thread....looks like this thread you cited is about oil changes, not transmission oil change.
As for the dealer....they are part of the problem, not the solution.

pilotart · #7 11-08-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the platform

without reading the whole thread....looks like this thread you cited is about oil changes, not transmission oil change.
As for the dealer....they are part of the problem, not the solution.

True, but don't read the whole thread, just the bottom half of the page before and page I linked you to.

It deals with the problem that occured after the DIY'er had Drained his Automatic Transmission instead of his crankcase oil and then tried to find anyone to refill it.

The ONLY place he could find to successfully do it was the Dealer, happy ending was that his transmission worked Ok after draining it twice and driving until it would not move (300 miles?) and then getting it re-filled.

P.S. If you think that a Dealer is a Problem, wait until the average Transmission Shop gets ahold of you!

clutchless · #8 12-05-2009, 07:07 AM

Oxybluecoop, Can you provide more detail regarding your drain and fill of the MINI Aisin auto tranny? I have worked on my own cars for years and done cooling line flushes and tranny drain and fills and find MINI's instructions confusing. They state drain, then leave drain hole open and add fluid thru fill hole until it comes out drain, then start car and shift gears and see if fluid still comes out! What did you do and how many quarts for a simple drain and fill? Can you just drain, then add fluid until some comes out then seal it up and top it up? Thanks.

BlimeyCabrio · #9 12-05-2009, 08:01 AM

yeah - me too - this sounds pretty odd as written...

pilotart · #10 12-05-2009, 10:01 AM

Looks like there is a 'standpipe' within the drain:

see '-7' on above drawing from realoem.com they call it "Overflow pipe".

(Number '9' is the filter.)

clutchless · #11 12-05-2009, 01:37 PM

The VW model 09G 6 speed automatic transmission ( not the DSG ) is the same Aisin model as in MINIs (excluding 1st gen CVT). Here is a link regarding changing the fluid and filter. http://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw_fluid...ssionfluidinfo
They sell a kit with filters, gaskets etc. They recommend using a pump they supply with the kit to pump the new fluid into the tranny. I think a $5 oil pump from any auto parts store is what they provide. I use them to fill differentials. The Fuchs fluid they provide is Similar to the Jspec 3309 MINI specifies which is the same as Toyota T-IV fluid a/k/a Mobil 3309 , which can be had for about $5 a quart at Toyota dealers. I have not researched it but think the VW and MINI tranny filters and gaskets are all the same.

Locust · #12 12-30-2009, 08:05 PM

Apparently the dealer I just went to does not perform the drain and fill of the MCSa Automatic Transmission 6 Speed (non-CVT) model. I went a couple of rounds with them and their overall stance is NOT to change the fluid in the MCSa because it would lead to more damage than good, belt slippage, etc.

I think the main underlying reason is so they don't have to cover their a$$es on liabilities if anything were to go wrong after they performed the procedure (which I do not think they had any training on in the first place... but this in my personal opinion).

Bottomline, the dealership I went to flat out refused to change the transmission fluid at 50,000 miles and said it would be better to just drive it until it blows up and then install a refurbished transmission. WTF Weasels?

pkgdave9144 · #13 12-30-2009, 10:24 PM

Someone HAS to have changed the fluid.... this tranny has been in Minis for like 4 years now! Wish it was easy easy as my Honda tranny to drain/fill.

clutchless · #14 12-31-2009, 07:35 AM

It appears not too difficult except for the terrible instructions provided by MINI as shown in the links above. This is my interpretation of the instructions and posts by others and may have some errors, you are on your own here. I have not done it on my car yet and will try to take photos and write it up when it gets warm enough to work on the car. I think the 6 speed automatic is the same in Gen 1 and Gen 2.
I think the MINI has 3 bolts to remove to do the fluid change, which appear to be the (1) Fill bolt in upper rear of tranny, (2) Drain bolt on lower side of tranny, and (3) Overflow bolt above the drain bolt. It appears you first warm up the car then, jack and place on jack stands, then open the fill bolt so you can be sure to be able to fill it again after removing the drain bolt. Then remove the drain bolt and overflow bolt and let the fluid drain and measure how many quarts come out. With the engine off, run the shift lever through the gear select positions for a few seconds in each position to help it drain more. Heat the new fluid, Toyota T-IV, which is JSpec 3309 a/k/a Mobil 3309, (a conventional fluid that will never last the lifetime they claim, look at tranny fluid change intervals for 2002-2006 Toyotas'/Lexus' with the 3.5 V6 and 5 speed Aisin automatic which take the same fluid, they are shorter and the dealer will do a flush!). T-IV is available at any Toyota dealer (All Toyotas use Aisin automatic transmissions and I think they are a subsidiary of Toyota) by placing the four to five bottles in a sink full of hot water and let it sit for 30 minutes or so. The stuff flows better when warm, note the temperature reference in the instructions. Install the drain bolt and using your $5.00 oil/fluid pump from the local auto parts store, some even have lids designed to screw onto quart oil bottles, pump new ATF into the tranny until it comes out the overflow hole, trying to install the same amount as you drained. Then with the engine off, run it through the shift positions again, check flow from overflow hole, possible add more fluid. Put everything back together with new bolt washers, drive car until warm, at least 20 minutes, park, shut off and check fluid level through flow from overflow bolt hole.

pkgdave9144 · #15 12-31-2009, 08:07 AM

yeah, I figured something along those lines. The drain plug is easy to find, but I can seem to find the fill plug. All I was going to do is drain whatever comes out (cold) and refill with the same amount (cold) no sense in messing with overflows unless you've got a leak, right? I see a plug on top of the torque converter section of the tranny, like a wierd torx-type head on it... im guessing a sight hole .But nothing as far as a fluid filling plug. Maybe I need a flashlight and mirror to see the back side. Who thought of that location? Maybe it was designed for a rear-engine car (MR 2) and so the fill plug would be on the front side then!

clutchless · #16 12-31-2009, 08:19 AM

This is from an older thread and the referenced pic links are not available:
Heres a pic of the fill plug(circled in red) on the auto tranny. It
will require taking off the air cleaner assembly. The drain plug is
easy to see on the underside next to the big "lifetime fluid" sticker.

There should be two fill plugs on both sides. So in that picture on
the right of the seam, better to get to from below there is another
8mm fill plug.

Since some post 2005 VWs also use this transmission they call it the 09G, (Those without the DSG automatic), I plan to check the Haynes manuals for them to see if an automatic transmission fluid change procedure is described for the Aisin.

clutchless · #17 12-31-2009, 08:59 AM

I found this link to a VW manual for the 09G transmission. Look at the photos, it is the same as our Aisin. http://vw.nate-online.com/techdocs/DSG.pdf

However, it does not have much for the owner wanting to do his own maintenance.

BlimeyCabrio · #18 12-31-2009, 09:21 AM

GREAT find! I've been looking for something similar for 2+ years. I didn't look in the right place.

Locust · #19 12-31-2009, 10:44 AM

I called BMW of North America and their representative told me that there is nothing written down on the service interval for these transmissions. He told me the CVT's fluids are serviced every 30,000 miles but since there was nothing written down, he said the fluid never gets replaced for the lifetime of the "transmission".

I would like to hear about anyone having a transmission failure on their MCSa 6-speed Aisin Agitronic Automatic Transmission. I think this would be helpful data to compile as these transmissions breakdown because they are not being regularly serviced.

It also might provide some insight as to what the expected "lifetime of the transmission" would be since He told me that BMW does not collect that kind of technical data.

This information might become very important to have available if somone wanted to file a class-action lawsuit.

clutchless · #20 12-31-2009, 11:11 AM

If you have ever watched Motorweek on PBS, you have seen Pat Goss, the mechanic who offers technical information each week. He also has a shop in Maryland outside Washington, DC and a local radio show where you can call in for car repair help. He generally recommends servicing transmissions every 2 years or 24 thousand miles, depending. http://www.goss-garage.com/node/35

Crashton · #21 12-31-2009, 11:34 AM

FWIW MINI also says the fluid/oil in the manual transmissions is lifetime fluid also.

It's my opinion that they just want to get owners past the 50K warranty & don't care what happens after that.

Treating your car well & changing the oils & fluids is the way to keep them running for a long time.

HBPERRIN · #22 12-31-2009, 10:41 PM

Bad luck with the trans but it's being rebuilt......

I was having problems with it shifting into 4th from 3rd. I call the dealer they quoted over 8k to replace with a rebuilt unit. So I took it to a local trans shop with the cost about the same. Finding parts for this trans is hard, I hope with the trans going into more car it will be easier in the furture.

I asked about the trans fluid change at 75k and the dealer told me to wait until 100k thats when it should be changed. OOPS!! So I did, my bad. Alittle under 100k I started to have problems.

BlimeyCabrio · #23 01-01-2010, 06:02 AM

Ugh. Mine is occasionally hesitating from 3rd to 4th - just started recently. Maybe 1% of the time it hesitates for half a second to a second on that shift. Is this what you were seeing? How bad did yours get eventually - what percentage of the upshifts were slow, and how slow were they?

Gonna get a fluid change ASAP and maybe drop the pan for inspection and a filter...

HBPERRIN · #24 01-01-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlimeyCabrio

Ugh. Mine is occasionally hesitating from 3rd to 4th - just started recently. Maybe 1% of the time it hesitates for half a second to a second on that shift. Is this what you were seeing? How bad did yours get eventually - what percentage of the upshifts were slow, and how slow were they?

Gonna get a fluid change ASAP and maybe drop the pan for inspection and a filter...

It started slow and just got worse. The computer tries to help with the pressure loss in that gear pack. It also happends more when the car is warm too. It started to get dangerous in traffic. The car just sits in neutral with no power until it shifts. Percentage at the end with a warm mini about 45%, it gets bad.

Sorry for the bad news. I would definitly change the fluid but I can't say that will help for sure. If I keep the Mini I will be changing the fluid every 24k.

R53Warrior · #25 01-01-2010, 10:05 PM

I know its a different car but when I owned a SAAB 9-5 Aero, all the dealerships and knowledgeable independent mechanics *refused* to do a flush. They both said that 'lifetime' fluid was a joke but that power flushing the transmission could actually cause damage by flushing away small particles in the clutches increasing tolerances. So it was a mutli-replenish fluid swap. Fill-dump-fill-dump-fill with a couple thousand miles in between to get the junk out. I dont know if the mini tranny allows it to be dumped dry, looking at the schematic posted about it cannot, hence then multi step to replace all/most of the fluid.
Different car but same technology figured it couldnt hurt to share