polecat, I don't know of a JWS 3309 that is synthetic. After searching long and hard on the internet, people have offered various points of arguments that led to this:
Mobil 1 3309 = Mini JWS 3309 = Volvo JWS 3309 = Toyota TIV ATF = any trannies built by AW
Furthermore, the 3309 stuff seems to be nothing special, just something very close to Dexron III with a more robust make-up and specced limited slip behavior.
They are all dino, none are synthetic
The supplier of ATF in the US, I have gathered, is one and the same for the Aisin-Warner trannies and each manufacturer buys and labels the ATF to their own needs. At the Toyota dealer the stuff is around $6, the Mini dealer wants $30 a quart. Go figure.

We can easily settle this argument with a VOA (virgin oil analysis).
We could get a sample of each ATF above and send it in for an analysis to Blackstone Labs and they would tell us exactly what is in it. Each sample would cost $30 or so this experiment would cost us right around 100 bucks (or $60+tax if we just compared Mini 3309 to M1 3309) plus the cost of the fluid. In the end, even though the information would be very telling, what would we end up with?
Mini seems to refuse to disclose how they define "lifetime". It can be lifetime of warranty, lifetime of transmission. What is the lifetime of the transmission? They don't offer any guarantee outside the warranty period. In other words, really, lifetime is the life of the warranty. Outside that, you are on your own.

I am more than willing to do the above suggested VOA if people want to donate the funds via PayPal. I have spent hundreds of dollars in fluid analyses on my Subaru in the past (it ain't stock, lol) alas at the moment I am not in a place that I can easily afford to do so.

 

Actually, the cost of a VOA would be $22.50+shipping via Blackstone Labs. Has anyone here seen an analysis before? It's pretty neat, tells you what additives are in it, how much of each, etc.

 

Mobil 1 only recently revised the spec sheet on their synthetic ATF and approved it as suitable replacement for 3309. This leads me to believe the BMW OEM stuff is the dino stuff, not synthetic. The formulation of the ATF didn't change, even though it was fine to use from the beginning, Exxon didn't want to say "OK" without in-house testing.
Are you under warranty? I would take it in. If you are out of warranty, then a drain/fill x3 would be my first stop. Ours would also shift rough 1-2-3 sometimes, now it is completely gone. Usually rough shifting means the fluid is spent, oxidiez, sheared out of the viscosity grade, etc. If that doesn't cure it, then a replacement of the strainer would be my next stop. Clogged filters degrade shifting quality by lowering ATF flow and lowering overall line pressure. The less pressure, the less clamping power for the clutchpacks and when they do grab, they slam.
I wouldn't mess with additives, those are a gamble. The choice, really, is between dino which means more frequent drain/fills, or synthetic which has a longer life AND a better stability in cold/hot (which means the transmission won't shift as funky during winter).

 

The synthetic stuff seems pretty hard to come by over in the uk, so I may have to go with the mineral 3309, still got a couple of liters left over from the laguna.
As for the lubegard its got some very good reviews and its poss the only one that some vehicle manifacturers recommend to mix with the ATF in their transmissions, Honda or Toyota spring to mind.

I have read quite a bit on different forums about some of Aisin warner 5 & 6 speed tiptronic boxes fitted to some Ford, Toyota, Volvo, Saab, to name a few and a lot of people writing in about the rough gear shifting when the vehicle has done 40 to 50k plus, but reading on 90% say a fluid change has cured the problem, but nearly all the manifacturers say they are sealed for life this fluid change should be part of the scheduled service at around 30k miles I would say for cars fitted with the aisin 5 & 6 speed boxes.

On the laguna its a heck of a lot smoother in the shifting, but before it was so rough at times it felt like someone had rammed you up rear end, & that was the second gear again, like in the mini

 

Got 2 gal of T-IV on the way home today. May try to do the triple drain-fill tomorrow. Hope it helps, because my tranny has gotten noticeably worse over the past 10K miles.

 

As a experienced technician I have seen the differences in servicing and not servicing. First thing you must understand is there is no such thing as a lifetime trans fluid, what they really mean by "lifetime" is usually very vague. I reccommend any car with a auto performing a drain and fill every 24-36,000 miles. Flushes are ok as long as whoever is performing it knows what their doing, because some cheaper flush machines don't have a reverse flow warning system (if you flow trans fluid backwards through the trans it WILL screw up your tranny). Now down to trans fluids themselves, ALL automatic transmission fluids are based off of Dexron/Mercon fluids. What makes the difference is the different friction modifiers, slip additives, and various other "manufacturer" specific additives, these are also what breaks down causing slow shifts, sluggishness, and hard shifts. Also fluid does get "dirty" but that is the least of your concerns, you can actually buy just the additive packs to replenish what has broken down but their expensive and your just better off doing a drain and fill. When it comes to transmission filters it is normally not worth changing unless you have a pan leak and need to replace the gasket anyway, all that super fine muck that lots of shops show people when doing a filter to help the customer justify the cost will be right back within 10,000 miles, that is simply normal clutch material wear. The thing you wanna look for in a pan to signal future or current problems is metallic or any pieces large enough to pick up with your fingers. Back to filters, transmission filters have a very coarse filtering effect, basically if your filter is clogged to the point of needing to be replaced I have bad news about the overall condition of your transmission and no amount of fluid is gonna make it better.

In a nutshell, transmission fluid change good 24-36,000 miles, flush really only needed for vehicles that have been neglected for more than 50-75,000 miles (large variance for driving conditions, i.e. stop and go, heavy load hauling, etc.), and make sure whoever does either has what it takes to do the job right (duh!)

 

V37W, if you have any input on my procedure, since you're a tech, by all means
My Subaru has a spin-on filter fo the tranny that looks exactly like an oil filter. Very easy to get to, just remove the battery and replace. It is deemed a non-serviceable part but for 10 bucks, I changed it, why not. Most pan filters I have seen should really be called strainers, because like you said, the filtering media is very coarse.

 

OK, did mine today - 2.5 qts of T-IV, drained and filled three times with 10-15 minutes of drive time between each.

Initial drain was black and opaque, like way cooked motor oil. Each subsequent drain got lighter and redder - though even the third drain was still pretty brown, but at least it was translucent. But given that it was still about 35% "old" fluid at that point, that was to be expected.

I could tell there was improvement in shifting performance after the first drain/fill cycle. Even more so after the second. Haven't driven it after the last one yet, but will get plenty of drive time later this week to see whether some of my issues have cleared up.

Now for the all-time winning WTF moment for Blimey... when doing the first drain, after removing the standpipe, it's draining like crazy and then "gloop"... I see something at least semi-solid chug out of the drain hole and into the drain pan. So after I'm done draining, I pour the fluid through my fingers to find what it was, hoping it wasn't some vital transmission part. No, it wasn't... See attached...

How the H3LL did that get in my transmission? I'm 1000% certain it came out the drain hole, and not from somewhere else... I watched it come out!

 

Quality assembly line right there. An old friend of my dad's, a Mercedes Benz mechanic, once found a lettuce leaf when he opened up a tranny :D
I have yet to do my 3rd drain/fill. Haven't had time.
BTW Blimey, there should be less than 35% old ATF after the 3rd drain/fill. You actually have that quantity after the 2nd drain/fill.
I agree, I don't like seeing dark fluid either, but nothing we can do :(

 

Nice, Paul. No wonder Blimey drives like he's got a bee in his bonnet, right?

 

I was talking about what the fluid looked like / contained when I did the 3rd drain.

1st drain: 100% old fluid
2nd drain: ~58% old fluid
3rd drain: ~34% old fluid

Now the car has less (more like 20% old fluid) - but I haven't drained that out yet.

But we're almost in violent agreement.

By the way - here's the funnel I used - worked PERFECTLY - found it at the local Advance Auto Store. I already had the other one discussed earlier - but this one is MUCH longer, but the same size at the bottom. Big enough you can pour a whole quart of fluid in and let it drain in while you're working on other stuff (like pouring the old fluid out of the drain pan into jugs, or putting other parts of the car back together).

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...N3322_T%7CGRPD____

I removed my DDM intercooler diverter, but removed nothing else up top to access the fill plug - didn't even have to loosen the air intake hose.

 

Great tip on the funnel! Thanks! I might pick one up since I have to do one more drain.
You know, I have to admit I am slightly concerned with the quantity of ATF that came puring out when I got the drain plug out. Abour 3 quarters of a quart. I would have expected less, I am almost thinking the tranny is overfilled? I am debating if I should leave it be or take care of it.
Pelican Parts has the crush washer, but they charge $5-something for shipping on top of the $2-something for the washer. I will look at hardware stores but if i can't find the right size, I might have to bite the bullet. I hate to pay for a crush washer almost as much as I paid for a quart of synthetic ATF!

 

I was already ordering some other parts from Pelican yesterday - so I ordered a few crush washers while I was at it.

I haven't tried pulling my plug with the car level yet. No idea how much will drain that way. I did all mine with the car level side-to-side, but with the front end elevated about a foot. I wouldn't be surprised if it was "overfilled" by a bit, just to allow for some leak-down over time, given that it's a "lifetime" fill and all that. lol

 

Lifetime ... I will try to send the sample in as soon as I can. Trouble is, it might be contaminated with virgin motor oil. I had to dump the ATF in a container to take a perfect reading and all I had was an empty jug of Pennzoil Platinum 10w30. I mean, the contamination should be minimal to nonexistent since the jug was empty and 2.5 quarts ATF went in. If anything, it will just show trace amounts of additives in the motor oil, which we will be able to deduct once we look at the results.
I will add the TAN and TBN test, which tells if the ATF could have been used for longer or if it was spent. An extra $10 but worth it.

 

I abuse the h3ll outta my tranny - or at least I have in the past. My oil was clearly cooked. But it also probably got as much wear in 80k miles as the average mini auto tranny would in 300K miles...

 

You can get generic drain plug washers of various sizes at Advance Auto, Autozone or any other auto parts place. The MINI washer in fishbone's photos is just the usual flat piece of metal. I cannot tell the size from the photos, maybe 10 mm or 12mm. Just take your old washer and trace it on a piece of paper to match up with one in the store. I have found similar size drain washers in Ford, Mazda, Lexus.

 

The crush washer size in mm is 17X12X2. It is just the right size to slide on a 10mm deep socket, if that helps.

 

Do you think it was because you had the engine not running when you removed the drain plug for the first drain, as like you said when checking the fluid level the engine is running so more fluid is circulating round the various parts and not drained down into the sump as when the engine is stopped.

 

That is what I am thinking. I am not going to worry about it at this time. I basically put in what I drained, if it was overfilled from factory it would have given up the ghost long long ago.

 

If you are going to do the third drain and fill I guess you could check it then for peace of mind.
So can you confirm after two drain and fills you have no more thumping or harsh shifting or was yours just slipping a bit, what sort of mileage has yours done ?

 

That makes sense - I think that's probably it.

 

70K miles almost, a 2006. We've only put 10K miles on it so I have no idea how it was driven by the previous owner. Confirming that at first the tranny slipped a bit in 2nd gear shifts, very seldom in 3rd, when I did the first drain. It re-learned and by the 2nd drain it was smooth, like brand new. I'm going to do the 3rd drain today.

 

Here is a link to the used transmission oil analysis post page at www.bobistheoilguy.com Here is a direct link to the listing is for Toyota T-IV after 25,000 miles in a Toyota transmission ( which would also be an Aisin ). There is quite a discussion regarding the analysis.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...oard=47&page=1

Here is what was posted:

Here's a copy of the Blackstone Labs report on my factory fill of Toyota T-IV ATF with 25,000 miles on it (and 25,000 miles on the car). Both car and oil are 3.5 years old.

I ordered a TAN but didn't order a TBN since a couple people wrote in a thread that only a TAN is necessary for the ATF, but if anyone thinks I should get a TBN too, I think there's still time for me to email Blackstone and request one. I think they don't throw away the samples right away.

The ATF that I sent them is 99 percent Toyota T-IV and 1 percent Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, since two days before I took the ATF sample for Blackstone, I had poured in 1 ounce of Mobil 1 ATF (not 1 quart, but one ounce). I had thought I was a tad low, but I probably wasn't (I just hadn't checked the ATF when it was hot enough, like after a 30-mile highway run).

Just like motor oil samples, I think you're suppose to take the ATF sample mid-stream after it starts pouring out of the pan, but I hastily took the sample closer to the start than the middle of the stream. Don't know if that made a difference here.

The transmission in this 2006 4-cylinder Camry LE is either the Aisin U250E or the U151E. I think it's the U250E. Total ATF capacity is probably around 7.x quarts for the U250E whereas it's 9.3 quarts for the U151E. The drain and refill amount for both the U250E and U151E is 3.7 quarts.

After I took the Toyota T-IV ATF sample for Blackstone, I did a drain and refill, adding about 4 quarts of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. So right now I have about a 50/50 mix of T-IV and Mobil 1 in the car, but the numbers in the Blackstone sample below are from an ATF fluid that is 99 percent Toyota T-IV and just 1 percent Mobil 1, so almost all T-IV.

Probably 85 percent or more of my driving the past 3.5 years has been city driving, and about 15 percent has been highway (maybe even 10 percent highway). Always gentle driving on the streets of Columbia, Missouri and St. Louis, Missouri.

Blackstone Labs says, "Our universal averages show typical wear from a Toyota automatic transmission after an oil run of ~20,000 miles" (so 5 thousand miles less than my 25,000-mile run of the factory fill).

From Blackstone Labs:

Sample date: July 2, 2009.
Miles on ATF oil: 25,000
Miles on car: 25,000

[First number = my sample's results] , [Second number = Universal Averages from a Toyota automatic transmission]

Aluminum 28 , 16
Chromium, 1 , 0
Iron 73 , 38

Copper 17 , 57
Lead 30 , 14
Tin 5 , 2

Molybdenum 0 , 1
Nickel 4 , 0
Manganese 3 , 1

Silver 0 , 0
Titanium 0 , 0
Potassium 0 , 1

Boron 32 , 57
Silicon 27 , 19
Sodium 8 , 4

Calcium 117 , 131
Magnesium 1 , 17
Phosphorus 228 , 297

Zinc 16 , 56
Barium 17 , 3

MY RESULTS // VALUES SHOULD BE

SUS Viscosity @ 210* F = 46.7 // 43 - 51
cSt Viscosity @ 100* C = 6.26 // 5.1 - 7.9
Flashpoint in *F = 360 // > 335
Fuel % = --
Antifreeze % = --
Water % = 0.0 // < 0.1
Insolubles % = 0.0 // < 0.1

TBN =
TAN = 1.9

 

Interesting results.
One thing I learned the hard way yesterday. When making sure you have the proper ATF level, before you start the engine, make sure you put the fill plug on, otherwise you will end up with fluid gushing out of the transmission. I wasted a solid 2 quarts doing this and making a huge mess in the process. So what I did was fill with ATF, plug it, start the engine, take the drain bolt out and watch if it poured out. In my case now, as soon as the ATF temp hits 95*F, the fluid starts coming out of the hole.

 

It appears that may be another method to quickly remove fluid from the transmission!

How much did you overfill it? In other words, how much came out once it heated to operating temperature?