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I was finally able to get all the information we gathered into graphs and in a post-able format. I'm on my lunch at work so sorry if this is a bit rushed but I felt like I should at least get the info out to you after so long.
Please people keep in mind that were just a couple guys that are passionate about our Mini's and how they operate. I have no formal experience with intercooler testing or parts testing of any nature. We did this for fun and to get a some basic cooling information from the IC's we tested.
That being said lets get started!
We tested the following Intercoolers:
M7 DFIC V2
AltaV2 Flow Through
Forge
GRS
Stock
How we tested them:
-10 Channel Data Logger recording Ambient, Inlet, Outlet of IC
-ScanGuage II
-RPM's revved to 6800 under full throttle
-We did a full boost run onto a freeway gears 1-4
-The rest of the runs (ranging from 2-3 runs depending on conditions and traffic) were on the freeway between gears 3-4 at wide open throttle.
-We did one final run for each intercooler on a freeway ramp 1-4 gears after the intercoolers and intake manifold were heat soaked. (We soaked each for 8 min)
-Outside is Ambient
-Inlet is air from super charger into intercooler
-Outlet is air leaving intercooler going to the intake manifold
Here is the testbed and intercoolers
M7 DFIC V2 (For some reason our software glitched during the last run as you can see. The colors of the graph switched on us but the data is still accurate)
Alta V2 Flow Through
GRS
Forge
Stock
Im sure that there will be questions and believe me, I'll do the best I can to answer them so feel free to ask
I have to say that it was really fun doing this. It was very cool watching the temps and seeing how differently the intercoolers were. One thing came very clear to us early on. Testing is far from easy... so many variables to consider. We tried to make everything as consistent and repeatable as possible.
Anyway, I hope this info is able to help more than hinder. Looking at the graphs and numbers you'll be able to see the intercoolers that actually cooled the air. Pretty cool stuff. I want to thank Peter from M7 for lending me his testing equipment. I also want to thank those of you that let me use your intercoolers! Thanks everyone
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
Last edited by Intense; 08-15-2008 at 03:55 PM.
Reason: Spelling and Grammar...
This is fantastic! Thank you so much for doing this. All I can say is that I believe your numbers, as I have seen similar data from my logger for the last 2 years...
Again, you won't get any argument or complaints from me.
From my non-professional/expert eye it seems the (GRS/stock/FORGE) do a better job of cooling but at the expense of pressure drop, no?
There was some slight pressure drop but we really didn't have the proper equipment to test pressure. You can see it in the max boost however.
Just some observations for each intercooler.
-Stock- It cools just fine, as you can see it gets hot fast but it cools of just as fast. We saw temps dip below ambient when cruising
-GRS- Did fantastic across the board, cooled well and recovered well
-Alta- This thing got hot and stayed hot. I think there are design flaws that hinder the cooling capability. The front of the intercooler sits so close to the hood scoop there is no direct path for it to flow thru the bottom part of the IC (I have pictures of the fitment on my camera at home I'll post later)
-Forge- This intercooler cooled well. The weird thing about it was temps at the manifold stayed high between 130-140 even on the freeway.
-M7- Does not cool as well as stock but seemed to recover well. The cars response felt snappier than the others
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
Thanks for the props everyone It was a lot of work but it was fun and rewarding!
Hopefully this data will help answer at least some of the questions people have about intercoolers. I know I learned a lot from doing this. Hell, this is the most fun I've ever had with a car
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
There was some slight pressure drop but we really didn't have the proper equipment to test pressure. You can see it in the max boost however.
Just some observations for each intercooler.
-Stock- It cools just fine, as you can see it gets hot fast but it cools of just as fast. We saw temps dip below ambient when cruising
-GRS- Did fantastic across the board, cooled well and recovered well
-Alta- This thing got hot and stayed hot. I think there are design flaws that hinder the cooling capability. The front of the intercooler sits so close to the hood scoop there is no direct path for it to flow thru the bottom part of the IC (I have pictures of the fitment on my camera at home I'll post later)
-Forge- This intercooler cooled well. The weird thing about it was temps at the manifold stayed high between 130-140 even on the freeway.
-M7- Does not cool as well as stock but seemed to recover well. The cars response felt snappier than the others
What do you mean here is the GRS is the best one is that right?
TBH, Intense, what your data and report also show is the high variance observed regardless of conditions. I've always claimed that the variance is so great as to swamp any real differences in IC performance. Your data go a long way to revealing what differences there are, however I would hope that one result of your report is that we all stop worrying so much about what IC we have on our MCSs and concentrate on more important issues. For me that means praying that Jan will find his way closer to Albuquerque so I can get a tune...one day.
TBH, Intense, what your data and report also show is the high variance observed regardless of conditions. I've always claimed that the variance is so great as to swamp any real differences in IC performance. Your data go a long way to revealing what differences there are, however I would hope that one result of your report is that we all stop worrying so much about what IC we have on our MCSs and concentrate on more important issues. For me that means praying that Jan will find his way closer to Albuquerque so I can get a tune...one day.
As much as I wanted to find that after market IC's work better I would have to say thats not the case... At least from the tests I performed. I wish I had the knowledge, equipment and experience to do every test on these IC's possible. I'm not sure what unknowns there are pressure, pressure drop etc. that we weren't able to test that would lead to a truer understanding of these IC's.
IC's were made to cool, and I think the charts above show which ones do that.
All said and done however, the stock IC works just fine and money is better spent elsewhere. That would be my conclusion.
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
What do you mean here is the GRS is the best one is that right?
The GRS intercooler cooled the best , better than stock by almost 20 degrees.
I think that there is a pressure drop with the GRS that we weren't able to accurately record.
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
so, perhaps the GP core is the best of all worlds. it would be interesting to see how it fared given stock did so well, but I'm sure I'm the same as others and no way I'm letting it out of my sight, even for testing
thanks for the effort....it's rare on this forum to see someone put the time in.
so, perhaps the GP core is the best of all worlds. it would be interesting to see how it fared given stock did so well, but I'm sure I'm the same as others and no way I'm letting it out of my sight, even for testing
thanks for the effort....it's rare on this forum to see someone put the time in.
Thanks PGT, I tried to get gnatster to send me his but he said the same thing! No way was he letting it out of his site!
I would have loved to have had one to compare
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
Your testing was Old school. This in point means cool. the real world without all the hype. I wish you guys were closer to my neighborhood to play with a couple of projects I have.
I wish I could find a very early post but perhaps some can remember a few years ago Dr O and Don at MTH cam up with the same conclusion with IC's. I think DR O now uses a GP and Don recommends staying with the stock or GP IC for street use.
I have to say that it was a real eye opener on what exactly is happening in the airflow through the engine. And just how much the IC does. It was a lot of fun testing these with Intense! We will have to take on more fun projects like this. Just the time spent with another MINI owner makes it all worth while.
Thanks for all of the input and responses!
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Roggen....Out!
'05 DS/W MCS Alta V2 17%, RMW Cam, JCW 380 Injectors, Brisk Racing Plugs, Voltage CAI, GRS InterCooler, Alta 22mm Sway, Eibach Springs, Alta Adjustable Rear Control Arms, M7 Strut Tower Brace, Invida Exhaust, Alta Stubby antenna, Ian Cull Auto Up, Ice Link, ASA EM9 17X7.
I have to say that it was a real eye opener on what exactly is happening in the airflow through the engine. And just how much the IC does. It was a lot of fun testing these with Intense! We will have to take on more fun projects like this. Just the time spent with another MINI owner makes it all worth while.
Thanks for all of the input and responses!
Your the man! Your wife is the man (JK) too for letting you spend so much or your time and weekends putting this together with me!
Roggen ran shotgun recording temps and data logging on his computer. Thanks Roggenmini! It was a team effort all the way and certainly wouldn't have been as much fun by myself man
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RMW Head - RMW Shorty Header - RMW Cam - RMW Quiet Catback - 440 injectors - Alta 17% - Alta 22mm Rear Sway - M7 V2 DFIC & Hood Scoop - M7 Coilovers - M7 AE Strut Bar - Voltage CAI - BRISK Racing Plugs - GP LSD - Eibach Control Arms - Custom Graphics - Orciari Cowl Scoops
Given my years of looking at IAT data I'd like to refer to some of the data presented that I think are interesting.
1. The approaches are quite high. They are about 30-50F on the early runs and as high as 70-80F on the heat soaked runs. This puts low-load cruising approaches of 10F into perspective. No wonder the magic approach is under 20F -- it's hard to get that with spirited driving.
2. These guys did 3 hard runs and then let the car sit for 8 minutes. Then they did the "heat soak" run. Look at the differences in cooling of the ICs for these last runs--then think of how often you are running your car with heat soaked ICs. More often than not I'd guess...
technical guys get caught up in theories and to much of controlled environments for there conclusions.
You're a funny guy, Nitrominis! Where in any of my posts have I ever talked about theories? I've been one of the most supportive posters on NAM regarding any IAT related issue, and have contributed to them all.
...or maybe you're not referring to me when you mention technical guys?
There is another new development GRS which has gone for test, but no results as yet
Is this the Water to Air that they have on their site?
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Roggen....Out!
'05 DS/W MCS Alta V2 17%, RMW Cam, JCW 380 Injectors, Brisk Racing Plugs, Voltage CAI, GRS InterCooler, Alta 22mm Sway, Eibach Springs, Alta Adjustable Rear Control Arms, M7 Strut Tower Brace, Invida Exhaust, Alta Stubby antenna, Ian Cull Auto Up, Ice Link, ASA EM9 17X7.
02 MCS CR/W #268
2005 DS/B MCS w/LSD, MMC #455, DSOC #113
no 
