Prepare yourself for the grand daddy of electric chairs then.

 

there are none.

Alex

 

Long way around, but that is why Sherry is using stock 16" wheels for track day instead of 15" Kosei's from Tire Rack.

I have no proof, but word is that the 07 MINI has the same setup as the GP. Again, ESP, but is really doubtfull that Mini changed bolt sizes just for the GP. So there will be more owners than me looking for tuner bolts in the new size.

Time for someone to start a list of aftermarket wheels that use the stock bolts.

 

I just checked the bolts on my Cooper (build date of 9/5/06) and the bolt size is 14M x 1.25. I was suprised they are using such a large size.

I've got a set of Flik wheels from my Miata that are going to need some basic surgery before I can use them (they have holes for 12M studs). I'll also have to use some different concentric rings.

Jim

 

The older stock wheels fit the hub perfectly on my GP. Let us know the diameter of your hubs when you get your new rings?

Welcome to the club.

 

The hub diameter is still the same at 56 mm (56.1 ring size).

 

Standard is 2.0. Fine pitch is 1.5.
Certainly not saying 1.25 out of the question, but why cut a custom ultra fine thread for a wheel bolt?

 

Does anyone here have a Wilwood kit on their car now with these 14mm parts?

Please contact me.

 

May 2006 Production is the cutoff for M12x1.5. The sizing and thread pitch is correct.

Information I have is that any MCS (not sure about the MC) in August Production Forward ---> will be M14x1.25.

 

It doesn't fit. I'm having such a pain in the ****. The place that put them on drilled out the holes but they're not centric anymore any now my rotor moves around funny and makes noises. Wilwood has no fix for it and won't send me new ones to have percision machined. $1000 down the tube and no one seems to care too much.

 

Did you get this one from me? If so, it's the first I've heard of any problems. Did you get any support from the person you bought it from? What was the suggestion they offered?

There are a couple of ways to address this.

1. Oversize the holes. Assuming (yes part of the reason they've not yet changed the factory part) that the center bore of the new hub is the same as the old part having the holes over sized will pose no problem at all.

The center bore is the key to centering the hats as well as the locating bolt if it's a factory kit (and not one of my 13" kits which do not) so the holes can be about any reasonable size and have little or no issue. However...having recently done a 12.2 here and suffering a broken locating bolt I can tell you the center bore of the WW hat is OS just enough to place value on the locating bolt. The rotor can shift (one time usually) enough on the hub to allow the rotor to make bridge contact in the caliper. This can be corrected by fitting one of the radial shims to the stud (1ea) to pull the caliper out a bit more for clearance. We had this problem yesterday and this was on the M12 stud so that's not a problem with the M14 studs at all.

2. You can have the hats "precision machined" to allow as second set of holes offset from the M12 holes (already a bit over at .520ish) but you'll now also need a new set screw hole as the hats can still move a bit. If the holes are installed as a tight fit to the stud the hat is now stud centric rather than hub centric. Like a wheel can be without centering rings. While doable it's not the common method.

If it's a TCE13" kit then the hat holes will be very close to fitting the studs as they are now. But there's no centering bolt. The hats are bored a bit tighter to fit the hub. Still, when done there should be ample movement on the brackets to radially pull the caliper and or bracket out for a bit more clearance.

 

I bought the kit from Helix, not you Todd. They didn't really have much of a suggestion other than buy new hats and have the lug holes drilled out more accurately or take it off and wait for Wilwood to make new hats and buy those.

I figured the center bore would keep the rotor in place which is why we drilled out the lug holes in the first place. It seemed like it was a tight fit, I would also imagine the center bore is the same if wheels have no fitment issue, no?

I'm thinking about having the holes in my hats drilled out bigger and sleeved. What's your take, Todd?

 

Center bore on the WW hats is 2.530. When I bore for the 13" kits I go to 2.525-2.527. We're splitting hairs over .005". That's not your problem. Having the stud holes over sized still will not make the rotors "wobble" that much.

Pull off one of the calipers and check the shims used to set the caliper mount radius. The 12.2 kit will require one big black alum spacer (11.75 up to 12.2) plus two or three thin shims per stud. "Shim to fit is the norm on the radial mount design. While off, pull both bracket bolts from the spindle (5/8 socket) and be certain the reducer bushings are in the holes. This goes from M12 to 7/16 and if not there the bracket can move.

Foget the hat holes. They are what they are and if oversized enough to clear the studs that's not your problem. Don't waste any time or money on working them.

BTW: the hat centering and the wheel centering are not the same. The hubs "snout" supports the wheel so yes it's possible that the center bore of the hats is not the same now on these hubs despite the wheel support being the same. That's part of the reason Wilwood has yet to make any firm changes; there are some other considerations beyond only the stud hole size. You may find that this is your problem but I'll guess the centering IS the same. Just can't prove it.

 

Ok, I'm seeing where you're going with this. I did use the large black spacer when installing them. The instructions say it's .215 we also only used one of the washers, as per the instructions but had a couple left over which now I'm seeing would be a good idea to stick in there.

You're saying that the lug holes can be oversized but is it a big deal if they're not perfectly centric anymore? All the lugs fit in without interference but I'm not very confident in the drilling procedure that was used. I was going to get some aluminum sleeves and then machine out the holes in pefectly centric 4x100 fashion and put in 16mm sleeves. (I'm a Mech. Engineering major and have facilities to use.)

The reason I throught wobbling issue is after driving a couple miles I noticed a ticking noise comming from the wheels when I used the brakes at all so I lifted the front and ran it in gear and the rotors were definitely not rotating around the hub in a circular manner. I figured the ticking noise was the pad being dragged back and forth across the grain of the rotor. Now I see it could definitely be hitting the caliper. Now, I could get the caliper out of the way with the extra washers but it still doesn't solve the underlying problem of a non centric rotor. I guess at this point it's all just speculation until I take it apart again and really examine it.

The ticking noise has gone away after about 100 miles and the rotors still have nice centric looking paterns on them, they don't seem to be grinding down smooth like I would imagine it would look like if the pads were being dragged across them but 100 miles might be a little premature to call anything. Maybe the rotors just settled "home"? or some material on the caliper has been worn away. I'll take it apart this weekend and investigate I guess.

 

The lug holes could be over an inch in diameter and it won't effect the rotor rotating. How can it, the hat's centered on the hub? What we don't know for certain yet is IF the hub bore is the same on the new parts. Regardless of both the wheel snout and the stud hole.

That noise could well be contact in a very small amount at the bridge of the caliper. Just look at it and see if you notice rub marks between the two halves. By now 100mi and it's self clearanced.

You're right the shims pushing the caliper OUT will not change the centering of the hat on the hub IF the hub is not the same size on the new part.

Put down the computer and pull a wheel and look at it! lol

 

Yeah, hm. I wish I had a set of calipers (measuring equipment) so I could measure the hub on my car, I'm sure a hubcentric ring wouldn't be too hard to whip up.

I'll try to get some time to tear everything apart on Sunday and see if I can find out what's going on.

 

Alright, I pulled everything apart today... The hubs look to be very tight, I would venture a guess that they're the same size as the old ones. I let the wheels do some turning and got out and looked and they didn't look to be wobbeling very much, maybe a couple mm.

I noticed that the calipers were VERY close to the rotors too so I took them off and put two more metal spaces in each for a total of three on each mount. This got them away from the rotor a bit more. I didn't see any rub marks when I took the calipers off either, maybe just a very little on one of them.

On my post inspection drive the shuttering was gone! I suspect that one of the rotors was making ever-so-slight contact with one of the calipers. I think my brakes are good to go now though!

Thanks for the advice, Todd.

 

No problem, that's what I'm here for.

Sounds pretty much what I expected. The contact changes a bit with flex of everything. Light contact can become a bit more under braking. The wear would have cleaned up on its own in time but a shim helps. Same I got here on the test run. Ended up with three per stud on one side and two per on the other. Gotta remember that factory parts are probably not to the spec we need them so we have to account for some differences.

Best thing is that you now know what it takes to pull it apart and look. Bet it was far easier than you first thought. In the future any more work and you'll be right at home with it.