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hello everyone, Ive spent the last 3 hrs going through the wheels and tire threads and still haven't found the answer to my questions . hopefully some of you good people will help me out. Because this car is going to be mostly a street car with no more than 3 track weekend a year(most likely only two) I'm looking for looks and performance. I'm trying to find out what is the widest 15 0r 17" wheel that I can run on my r53 with what et and tire size that I don't have to run spacers and yet get as close as possible to flush with fenders. I'm going to be running koni yellows with swift r springs that lower it .07 in the front and .05 in the rear. from what I've read so far, if i understand it right, the 15s will allow me to switch to coiler in the future if I decide to go that route without major rubbing. I'm extremely lacking in the the understanding of et's so any help would be greatly appreciated , thanks,John
I'll go first with experience based opinions which will likely differ by objectives...
I can only speak to 17" wheels on R53 and then, only the wheels installed by the original owner to accommodate "big brake" calipers installed same time. With that said, I've looked at all available OEM wheel models with few of those working in combo with my front brakes. My wheels are 17x7 while unsure if mfr's current model offset being same as mine although I think so.
OK, with that said, mine had -1 size DOT compound track tires when purchased which only had a few thousand miles from new in 15+ yrs. Too low aspect ratio and too stiff compound for street/highway in combo with stiffer lowering springs. Subsequently discovered wheel spacers installed (now permanently removed) for maximum track width not required for clearance to those calipers. Replaced those tires with +1 size in combo with slightly taller/softer coil springs for pavement practicality and satisfied with results with no track days intended. Bottom line if were mine, I'd bias towards street practicality for stated usage. Also, unsure what you're referring to with "et". Perhaps instead, "backspacing" or "offset" which are different measurements on same wheel designs as outlined here: Tire Rack's Understanding Wheel Offset and Backspacing
Measure your own car and wheels for clearances, then start playing around with different options. When you find something close, start looking for wheels and tires that fit your specs.
I can tell you that a 15x7 ET35 with a 205/55R15 tire will clear (assuming you have stock brakes). I'm pretty sure you can go wider on both the wheel and the tire without poke, but I don't know by how much.
So, am I right in thinking that an offset of 45 will tuck the wheel further inside the fenders and an offset of 38 would make the wheels stick out closer to the edge of the fenders giving a more flush look? I looked up the wheels I had on my last 06 r53 and they were enkei j-10s 17x7et42 and they set inside the fenders. I'm trying to get the wheels out closer to the edge .
So, am I right in thinking that an offset of 45 will tuck the wheel further inside the fenders and an offset of 38 would make the wheels stick out closer to the edge of the fenders giving a more flush look?
I bought oz allegerita 17s with 38 offset. I am running 215x45 re71r which are actually as wide as most 225. When my 06 MCS was on the stock sport suspension I had occasional rubbing in the back. With coilovers and additional rear negative camber I have no rubbing. This wheel and tire combo fills the arches well and clears my Porsche bbk. Hope this helps some.
Oh. That reminds me. I had the slightest rub on the outer sidewall by the tread at the rear at full compression when I was on stock springs and dampers. They were just kissing the inner fender. Haven’t had any issues with the Koni yellows and Swift springs. I think it was actually a bushing issue.
hello everyone, Ive spent the last 3 hrs going through the wheels and tire threads and still haven't found the answer to my questions . hopefully some of you good people will help me out. Because this car is going to be mostly a street car with no more than 3 track weekend a year(most likely only two) I'm looking for looks and performance. I'm trying to find out what is the widest 15 0r 17" wheel that I can run on my r53 with what et and tire size that I don't have to run spacers and yet get as close as possible to flush with fenders. I'm going to be running koni yellows with swift r springs that lower it .07 in the front and .05 in the rear. from what I've read so far, if i understand it right, the 15s will allow me to switch to coiler in the future if I decide to go that route without major rubbing. I'm extremely lacking in the the understanding of et's so any help would be greatly appreciated , thanks,John
OK,
Compared to 17x7" et 48 OEM wheels:
17x7" et 38 will poke out 10mm more than OEM but there the tire shoulder edge lies in relation to the wheel arch lower edge may depend on how much suspension drop and what front negative camber you run.
Anytime you have suspension drop with lowering springs you are limited ability to change ride height. To gain some clearance and tilt the front wheel inward you can add adjustable front camber plates (fixed plates don't allow for adjustable settings). Typically you set the front camber for performance (more negative in front but will wear street tires faster) and you may be able to mark the setting with some nail polish or paint then move setting to less negative for street use after track events.
A fully adjustable coilover suspension allows you better ride height that will give more clearance depending on which tire size you choose.
Using tires that are taller and/or wider than OEM tire diameter will give you less clearance and more risk for rubbing under load or with track use. 205/45-17 is OEM while 215/45-17 is taller by about 0.3 inch, not much but enough to rub with some wheels and offsets. For track use if you can find them 205/40-17 or 215/40-17 are possible tire sizes that will work but are smaller than OEM tire diameter.
Yes an offset with larger number means the wheel is closer to the inner suspension parts, the smaller number means it pokes out more.
For track use you often want a tire that is smaller in tire diameter than OEM and often wider like 225mm with usually a lower sidewall ratio.
In the case of 15" wheels you can use-
15x7" et 38 which poke out 10mm and 205/45-15 or 225/45-15 tires which are 33mm shorter on tire diameter. Small but wider tires give more clearance for lowered suspensions. For wider tire sizes and track use, 15x8" wheels can be used however for an R53 an et of 36 may rub the lower rear control arm at that offset and require a thin 3mm rear wheel spacer for clearance.
Let me know if you have more questions. If you have very low requirements for daily street driving then you can use a Max or Extreme Summer tire year round that can be taken to the track but they are not for cold weather use. Any good track tire may wear faster on the street, be firm riding, noisy, not as good in wet, and not for cold.
Compared to 17x7" et 48 OEM wheels:
17x7" et 38 will poke out 10mm more than OEM but there the tire shoulder edge lies in relation to the wheel arch lower edge may depend on how much suspension drop and what front negative camber you run.
Anytime you have suspension drop with lowering springs you are limited ability to change ride height. To gain some clearance and tilt the front wheel inward you can add adjustable front camber plates (fixed plates don't allow for adjustable settings). Typically you set the front camber for performance (more negative in front but will wear street tires faster) and you may be able to mark the setting with some nail polish or paint then move setting to less negative for street use after track events.
A fully adjustable coilover suspension allows you better ride height that will give more clearance depending on which tire size you choose.
Using tires that are taller and/or wider than OEM tire diameter will give you less clearance and more risk for rubbing under load or with track use. 205/45-17 is OEM while 215/45-17 is taller by about 0.3 inch, not much but enough to rub with some wheels and offsets. For track use if you can find them 205/40-17 or 215/40-17 are possible tire sizes that will work but are smaller than OEM tire diameter.
Yes an offset with larger number means the wheel is closer to the inner suspension parts, the smaller number means it pokes out more.
For track use you often want a tire that is smaller in tire diameter than OEM and often wider like 225mm with usually a lower sidewall ratio.
In the case of 15" wheels you can use-
15x7" et 38 which poke out 10mm and 205/45-15 or 225/45-15 tires which are 33mm shorter on tire diameter. Small but wider tires give more clearance for lowered suspensions. For wider tire sizes and track use, 15x8" wheels can be used however for an R53 an et of 36 may rub the lower rear control arm at that offset and require a thin 3mm rear wheel spacer for clearance.
Let me know if you have more questions. If you have very low requirements for daily street driving then you can use a Max or Extreme Summer tire year round that can be taken to the track but they are not for cold weather use. Any good track tire may wear faster on the street, be firm riding, noisy, not as good in wet, and not for cold.
wow… that was an awesome response, very informative. Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. I really really appreciate it!!!
Yes, much to consider if you want to be serious. However when you begin it isn't as crucial to have all of the mods that are possible for a given class and still do well (enough).
Are you doing organized track events or more open track day type events with no instruction offered? Most times if it is a true track event the organizers will have rules for the cars and drivers and set people up into groups based on experience and car types or mods.
For beginners you just drive what you bring and work with it. But ask if instructors are available and get one that will help you learn the track and make the most out of each track day. With no instruction it will be a steep learning curve and you will not make the most out of any mods you have.
On the track the most important single item is tires but wear on the tires depends on suspension and alignment and heavily affected by driving skill of lack of it. If you aren't careful it is easy to tear through a set of tires in one track day. Using OEM alignment causes more wear on the front tires outer tread edges, changing the alignment for much more front negative camber like -3 degrees helps to make better use out of the front tires up to about double the wear rate. So for example, two MINIs one OEM and the other with upgraded suspension and max front negative camber both put on same track tire wheel setup. The stock MINI will use up the front tires at twice the rate of the modded MINI with the same aggressiveness of driving.
How much prior track experience do you have? Other cars in the past? Any previous instruction and at what event?
I have only been a passenger so far at two weekend track events at VIR and one at Road Atlanta. This will be my 1st track event as a driver. One of the three guys that I go to the track events with is an instructor and he he will instruct me. I’m really looking forward to it March 18-20 at VIR. I’ve been trying to learn the track and where the flag stands are.
^^^ For maximum adjustable negative camber, yes. OTOH from my recent experience, those add front end alignment hassles with shops using typical Hunter mirrors method not equipped or trained to deal with the additional steps to dial-in adjustable plates. I struck out on that and bought DIY tools - yet to be tested. As a do over for strictly streets/highways, think I'd have ordered IE fixed plates, installed those and put my Helix adjustable plates on NAM classifieds. Sometimes, simpler is better...
I have only been a passenger so far at two weekend track events at VIR and one at Road Atlanta. This will be my 1st track event as a driver. One of the three guys that I go to the track events with is an instructor and he he will instruct me. I’m really looking forward to it March 18-20 at VIR. I’ve been trying to learn the track and where the flag stands are.
OK, some things to consider.
The better you know the track layout and each turn the better to understand what is the driving line and what you are doing for each part of the track. You can watch Youtube videos of others driving the course, or you can run simulators and drive the course. Riding along on a track is very different than driving it. Instruction helps to get you in the right place if you follow along. Read about the track rules and get your required gear ready such as helmet.
If it is an all day event be sure to get plenty of rest for the few days before the track day, being out all day is very tiring so stay hydrated and seek A/C indoors or shade.
Getting adjustable front camber plates is worth it so that any investment you make in tires isn't worn away quickly and you make better use of the front tire grip and reduce understeer. But what is good for the track isn't good for street driving tire wear so you have to decide if you want to keep the track settings or adjust them for street then again for track.
Once the camber plates are installed they need to be set (and marked) by doing an alignment with certain settings in mind. Once you have installed suspension upgrades ride height may be altered and alignment will be changed. Front and rear toe settings are easy to change with OEM parts. Rear camber is changed with adjustable rear camber arms.
Typical R53 track alignment settings are:
Front toe - Zero to toe out 1/16"
Front camber - max negative camber or as close to -3 degrees
Rear toe - Toe in 1/4"
Rear camber - negative camber -1.0 to -1.2 degrees or up to 1 degree less negative than the front. May depend on setting of Rear adjustable swaybar if used.
Most times you the driver will determine how much understeer you will get on track. A good instructor can show you the optimal driving line and drive at 8/10th effort with no understeer. Lap times will be good and tires and brakes will work and not overheat. This will be a good goal for any new driver. However most of us aren't ready for that due to our bad habits (if any) and enthusiasm to drive hard. Overdriving is the biggest mistake which means you are too aggressive on both throttle and brake which leads to driving a longer and slower driving line than is necessary. Understeer means you are usually going too fast for a given turn/corner and you don't have enough tire grip to keep on the line you were trying for. As a result you need to hit the brakes and slow down or run off the track wide. FWD cars heavily understeer while RWD cars like to oversteer (back end looses grip and car spins).
So are you getting tires by the first track day? What are you thinking to get?
vir is a fun track, south and patriot / grand are extremely fun in a mini. If you want to learn the line we will have a lunch hour parade lap session at our feb event in a couple weeks. Seat time trumps all
Here's a lap in my R53 mini from a couple years ago
I have the exact same suspension setup on my R53. I run 15-inch wheels for autocross. One of my sets are 15x8 +38 with 225/45R15 tires. I run a 5mm spacer all around. The spacers are only needed in back to clear the rear trailing arm bolt (the big one where the shock bolts onto the trailing arm) but I also have 5mm spacers in front for a square setup. Works great for me with no rubbing anywhere, even under heavy loads in corners. Vorschlag camber plates up front and Hotchkis rear lower control arms to help with increasing negative camber.
So are you getting tires by the first track day? What are you thinking to get?
as far as tires I was thinking of going with max performance summer tires until I can afford to have two sets of wheels. 1 set for the street and one set for the track. where I'm stuck at the moment is whether to go with 15inch wheels or 17 inch. since I have my jeep as a daily driver I was thinking I should go with 15x8 but that will mean that I will have to use the 4 pot wilwood bbk as the 6 pot kit will fit it 17" wheels. My gut tells me since the max hp I will ever see is 250whp that the 4 pots will be enough and the 6 pots would be overkill( let me know if I'm wrong).
then, later after I can get a 2nd set of wheels I can put some dedicated track tires on the 15" wheels. I want to thank everyone that is replying and giving me feed back and guidance and having patience with someone so new and uninformed as I REALLY appreciate your help. If i'm off base in any of my thought process please feel free to correct me as I have no ego.
I have the Hypergrams on my R53, 15x7.5, 225/45/15's. 2 sets, one with Hankook RS4's for track days and one with Azenis for AutoX. I'm lowered on Fortune Auto 500 coilovers, I did have to remove some of the inner plastic liner on the wheelarch for the Azenis not to rub in the rear. I'm running 1.5 neg camber in the back, 2.5 front. For the price $600 shipped, you cannot beat them. I have one set in grey the other anthracite with polished lip. The polished lip ones definitely look nicer, but either way work great. So I would imagine the 15x8's might need the 5mm spacer to clear in the rear. Mine are close with about 5mm of clearance. I'm gonna go for 15x8 with Hoosier slicks for AutoX this year as Im moving up to SMF. Might do the Hypergrams in the 8's or RPF1's, although I really like the Gramlights 57DR's... Decisioins...!
My best guess is yes. I have a set of Konig Dekagrams 15x8 and they fit witha small spacer on the rear. The Hypergrams shoooouuuuuld fit.
Am I right that you are running r56 front breaks on your car? if so do you happen to know how close they are in size to the wilwood 11.75 BBK that is supposed to fit 15" wheels. I feel good about the hypergrams at this point and now just need to try and confirm that the wilwoods will work. I appreciate your help!!!
