I have recently modified my mini cooper s to the extent that has caused me to reclass to STX. I have worn out my Kuhmo Victoracers at a few driving schools and have recently purchased a set of non shaved non heat cycled Falken Azenis sports. My question is will they hold up for a driving school on a full scale race track. I know that some people get by using street tires for these events. I have tried this before and I tend to push a little too hard and have chunked several types of street tires. Just need to know if this will ruin the Azenis or will they take the abuse.

 

They will chunk as well if you get them too hot... Depending on the ambient temp, adjust the air pressure in the tires - if it's warmer than about 70 degrees, use more pressure and they'll heat up slower and allow more laps before they get hot. If it's cooler and you want extra stick, use less pressure - but know that they'll get hotter, faster.

IMHO, the wide outer lugs work very well to resist chunking, but they will do it if you really push it hard and they get too hot. Since they have already been shaved and heat cycled, it's less likely.

I use my Azenis almost exclusively for autocrossing, but I also use them on track days when it's dry (when it's wet, I stick with my ES100's).

 

Spillman,
If you have an MCS using 16" wheels then there are not many choices for good tires that can be used for track and autocross. The Falken Azenis Sport in 215/45-16 is OK for autocross but won't stand up long on a day long full track. The best track tires like Michelin Pilot sport Cup would do well on the full track but are not autocross tires. Street tires like the Bridgestone potenza Pole position S-03 are good for street, will still hold up on the track and can be used for autocross especially if wet but it is always a compromise.

I have separate tires for track (pilot sport cup), for autocross (Kumho victoracers or V710) and for street (S-03) for the reason of saving each tire for a particular purpose. I know that means three sets of rims so for two of them I use the stock MINI holey rims 15x5.5 and put on 205/50-15 tires for track and autocross.

As the Azenis sport heat up they may not feel so good and may not recover (cool down) fast enough.

A good autocross and track tire I have found is the Avon Tech R but those are not for 16" wheels, only 205/50-15 and 225/45-15 on 15x6.5 to 7" rims.

 

I've never used Falkens but I've been tracking S0-3s (and street tires in general) for quite some time on BMWs and now my MC--they work very well (especially in the wet) but make sure you put enough air in them. My car is stock with SS+ and the pressures I used this past year:

LF 40 psi
LR 38
RF 37
RR 35

I know it seems a bit **** to use 4 different pressures but I'm basing it solely on the triangles on the sidewall--with these pressures the tires roll over to right about where they should. Don't know what mods you have but if you have no additional camber you will chew up the left front eventually no matter what, so keep an eye on it and rotate the LF and LR if you can.

 

Note he/she said they have been reclassed to STX - the ONLY tire to run in STX is the Azenis, IMHO, especially in 16". There are no other really good choices unless you go to 15's or 17's, and even then you're rather limited. In 17's, you can choose either Azenis or Kumho MX's - nothing else even comes close to performing the same in our region.

Azenis and Kumho MX's still dominate STX, and I think they'll continue to do so for quite some time. No other 'street' tires even come close, still. My ES100's were fine, and some people have reported favorable results with other street tires by shaving them, etc., but switching to Azenis really opened my eyes to what I was missing. And, the Azenis and MX's continued their domination this year... I figure the Azenis were worth 1-1.5 seconds, depending on the course length.

I stand by my statement that the Azenis will stand up to use on the track - I know because I do it a couple times a year... You just have to make sure you run the right pressures and that just takes a bit of tweaking at the track. On most DE days where you're doing 3-4, 20 minute sessions, there's plenty of time for the Azenis to cool down between sessions. You can always mist them with water, too. But, in my experience, if you run a bit more pressure they warm up slower and continue to stick through an entire 20 minute session with no problems. They're even fine if the track is damp, but if it's raining heavily or there's standing water you'll be better served by good street tires...

Many people run the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups at our BMWCCA chapter autocrosses, even though Hoosiers still dominate. But, the guy that almost always sets FTOD runs Pilot Sport Cups exclusively. He also runs them at our DE's and loves them, too... It all depends on the car's setup...

 

I am currently using a H sport 22mm rear sway bar with adjustable rear control arms. I have camber plates and lowering springs on the way. I was going to try and run the azenis this weekend at VIR but the Vulcan tire company and even after I continually asked and they assured me several times that they would be here thursday. And guess who calls wednesday to inform that there has been a shiping error and they won't ship out until thursday. So I am stuck with a choice of running my factory 17" boat anchors with yokohama parada tires or using my Victoracers that the tread is sperating off of. Sure to make an interesting weekend. I noticed that there is going to be a few NSXs this weekend and am looking forward to humbling a few japenese "supercars" if my tires hold up. Thanks for the info all of you.

 

I have used two full sets of Falken Azenis (215-45-16) in over 21 track events in the past three years. They are extremely durable. Without camber plates, there was distinct wear on the outside. I reversed them on the wheels and evened that out. They maintained their grip very well, but if driven too hard - as in sliding, pushing, overcooking turn entries, etc - they will overheat and lose grip. A lap or two at moderate speeds will cool them down. I drive an S with mods at about 190 hp, and run decent times on a number of tracks, though as my daily driver the car is not often pushed to the limit. When I got my second set, I added RDR camber plates and the everyday setting to -1.5 on Charlie's recommendation. On the street I use stock pressures, but I watch these if there are drastic temperature changes.
I rotate frequently, each day at two or three-day DE events. After experimenting quite a bit, I stay with 32-34 lbs pressure all around at the start of a session. I get some minor squeal in the first few turns (warming up) but very quickly they are at full grip, and I believe that laps 2-5 or so (on a 2-mile course like Putnam Park or Blackhawk farms) are probably the optimal. I do not allow them to run hot at more than 42 lbs and often feel the best at 40 lbs, no matter what the trackor outside temps are. But I can run 30 minute sessions now with no excess heat or loss of grip. For $110 per tire there is no better value. All my hard miles are on tracks, not autocross courses. My experience prompted a much more experienced friend to get Azenis on his race-prepped Audi (5 cylinder) and he agrees that the value/$ benefit is great, especially after going through Hoosiers at $200 with half the miles or less. Like me, he is a DE instructor and often runs six sessions each day. The Azenis are not race tires. They are a street legal compromise and have no glamour to them but they work very well for me.

 

I'll second what "chigh" has said. I'm also a DE instructor and have been running Azenis for the last two seasons. While I prefer R-compounds, you simply can't beat the value per dollar of the Azenis. Heck they last at least twice as long as say a hard compound Yokohama A032. And the grip levels are surpising for a "street" tire. Sure they can go away after 15 minutes, if pushed very hard, but they are communicative and quite predictable. I've never had problems with chunking. In a school setting they are more that adequate. I've been recommending the Azenis to any and all who ask. Word has it the new Azenis will put up with the heat a bit better. This tire should be available in late spring.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1048401