Looking at the team dynamics wheels and want to know if I can get away with the 15's. If so, what's the best width/tire combo for performance? Thanks

 

Tire Rack says the OE size for a '09 Cooper non-RF is 175/65-15. You aren't going to be able to easily find a good selection of performance tires in the size, however. Do you know what the width of the wheel is?

 

I've been researching light weight wheel options for H-Stock AutoX. H-Stock is limited to 15x5.5 and 16x6.5, but I see a good selection of 15" on the Rota site. Check them out. Complete sets shipped under $600 at 18racing-dot-com.

Also, if you are going for light weight SSR Type-C and Type-F are feather weights that will fit; albeit at a price! Although i'm guessing those Team Dynamics aren't cheap either.

http://www.ssr-wheels.com/wheels/ssr.asp
SSR Type-C 15" come in 5.5, 6.5 & 7 widths and check out those feather weights for 4x100's from 8.7 to 9.6 lbs! I'd go 15x7... Offset and wrap to choice...

Don't think you would have any difficulty getting 15x7.5 on there. I'm running 17x7 on the street with no issues and found 17x7.5's that fit. You can probably go 8" if you want to with the right offset. Others here may have experience with wide 15's...

 

The team dynamics are approx 140/wheel. These answers are very helpful - it seems like perhaps 16" is the way to go.

I used to own an S (R53) and am now buying a non-S (R56) so I realize my upgrade options are limited and that lightweight wheels with sticky tires will yield the best performance/dollar and am just wondering what the optimal size is. I will not be auto-x'ing.

16x7 or 16x8 the best for me?

 

I vote for 16X7. Most aftermarket 16" wheels for the Cooper are 7" wide, and the optimum tire widths for the 16X8 rim (225 to 235) may rub on the Cooper, depending on the wheel offsets.

15X6.5 or 7 would work also.

 

So for 16x8 on an R56 (non-s) what offset would I need to run? It seems that this would be the best option as far as contact patch/grip is concerned, and you can still get wheels in the <20 lbs range for relatively low dollar amounts

 

Yes, check the available tire selection before making a decision on the wheel size. I have 15x7 SSR's, and became dismayed as each year tire manufacturers kept dropping their selection in the size I wanted (205/55-15). It would have been better if I had chosen 16x7 instead, although I couldn't have predicted it.

 

If you are not going to track race it or autoX it, then why are you so concerned about going so wide and small?

FWIW I'd stick with 7" wide wheels with about +42 offset in 16" or 17" diameter for street use. Both have a nice look and ride, plus lots of options on wheel style. Style and look is subjective to a point even if considering performance. Check out the wheel threads for different looks and sizes of rims/tires.

I'm running a 205/45ZR17 Continental Extreme Contact Dry/Wet/Snow (DWS) XL All Season which does it all well for Daily Driving, on 17x7 +42 JCW R113 Knock-offs. Very happy with them, but won't be using them for autoX or the track. You can fit 215's on this setup, but it's tighter (no rubbing).

 

The reason I want to go small is for weight - unsprung weight is obviously going to make a significant difference on a low-powered vehicle like this. As for width, I suppose 8 may be too wide. I don't want to have to deal with rubbing, but I do wan't very sticky tires.

Sounds like 16x7 will fit the bill. Thanks for all of your advice.

 

OK after some more research, it looks like 15's are just fine for my non-s R56. So now I'm trying to find some R81 (7 Hole) wheels but haven't had any luck. At 12 lbs a piece, they are very light.

I also like the ESM-01 wheels, but they are 15x8. Any issues with rubbing here? ESM says they are 'Mini Friendly'.

I want white wheels. I've painted wheels before but ideally i'd like to buy them that way.

All of your help is greatly appreciated.

 

The R81 is the lightest of the OEM wheels, but it's still only 5.5" wide. And the 15X8" wheel would still need a wide tire (225 or 235) to work optimally.

Take a look at these FS wheels: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...15x7-41-a.html

Not white, but very light (9# each), and $500 for the set. Seller has 205/50/15 tires mounted, but the tires are not included for that price. Enkei RPF1s are popular aftermarket wheels for Minis.

 

Those are solid but sold.

Will the 5.5" width of the R81's have a significant effect on max lateral acceleration? If so, I'd go for something wider.

If i do in fact go with 15x8's and lower the suspension, will I likely have rubbing issues?

 

It sounds like you are looking for:

White (preferred) lightweight wheels for R56 Cooper
About 7" wide
Good grip on street tires not for track or autocross
Prefer good handling and response over all season and comfort
Reasonable cost

The biggest advantage of 15" wheels for any MINI is tire selection is open that will favor a large range of sidewalls from-
175/65-15 or 185/65-15
to
195/60-15 and 205/50-15

All of these are good sizes for various 15" wheels from 15x5.5 like the stock 7 hole rim to 15x7+ wheels.

Tires with 60 or 65 series sidewalls are going to be more comfortable for daily street use. They are not stiff sidewalls like 45 series but still will work in corners if you pick a good summer tire.

Narrow wheels have much less weight for the same price and offer lower rolling resistance with a narrow tire, good for mpg and good for snow if you have all season tires on but not as good for high speed cornering.

If you buy a decent Extreme or Max Summer tire and put it on a OEM 15" MINI wheel you'll likely be surprised by how well it might corner but anytime you have more tire on the ground in contact with the road you will get more grip.

As you increase wheel diameter to 16" you start to compromise looks for less tire sizes that will fit the MINI but it is fairly good vs 17"
You can choose rims about 16x6.5 to 16x7+ and tires from:
205/50-16 and 205/55-16
to
225/50-16
And you can also choose to run tires which are near the load rating of the MINI about 82-84+ but run a smaller than stock tire diameter such as-
225/45-16

The problem with running tires on the street that are smaller in tire diameter is one of clearance- reduced road clearance and risk of damage.

Again 50 or 55 series sidewalls are stiffer and more responsive than 60 series but more forgiving than 40-45 series sidewalls.

Most times 16" wheels are going to be a little heavier than 15" wheels of the same construction and design. You can reduce weight in any wheel by forging it vs gravity casting but you always pay more for less weight. I think as a compromise you want a decently strong alloy wheel with reasonably low weight for it's size.

Looking at 15" options-

Standard new white MINI 7 hole R81 12 lbs rim is about $150 (much less used)
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...eel_white.html
It will fit your MINI and is light. Still works with 195/60-15 or 205/55-15 tire which can be more performance oriented.

Or White Team Dynamics 15x7 4x100 bolt pattern 56.1 hub bore
Option for various offsets from +30mm aggressive where the wheel is more outward from the wheel well to +40mm which is closer to stock.
see
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...-pro-race.html

You have many more options in colors and sizes check with the folks at Outmotoring.com or Alex@tirerack.com for more options on wheels.

For tires that is a another whole story depending on what you want to do and your budget

I suggest looking at good Max Summer tires unless you have cold weather and snow, then look at Ultra High Performance All Season tires.

 

The 5.5" rim width restricts optimum tire width; thus I'd consider the 175/65/15 OE tire size somewhat restrictive in terms of lateral grip. Some with 15" rims have mounted 195/55/15 tires (tire diameter = 23.4"). I don't know how much more footprint width that size actually adds on the narrow rim, but there are some very sticky tires in that size. Note that increasing tire diameter or width adds more weight. Everything seems to be a compromise.

In the case of the 15X8s, some have mounted somewhat narrower than recommended tires on wide wheels in order to avoid rubbing. That seems like a waste of wheel width (and a wheel weight gain) to me, but some apparently like the look.

 

Thank you for the very thoughtful and thorough reply. It seems that the two sizes you pointed out for the R81 (195/60-15 and 205/55-15) are extremely limited in selection and I can't find any extreme performance summers.

On a Team Dynamics 15x7 what is the standard tire size people are using? Going for maximum performance without rubbing. I'd love to go with the +30 offset, but will I have issues rubbing?

 

The 195/55/15 that I mentioned offers two Extreme Performance Summers; the Dunlop Star Spec, and the Toyo R1R.

 

If you were to use 15" wheels then you do have some options on tires-

205/50-15 fits rims 5.5-7.5" wide, tire diameter 23.1"

This is a common performance tire size, note that it works for stock 15x5.5" MINI wheels or up to 15x7.5" no problem.

Extreme Summer tires offer more grip and handling but wear faster, usually ride comfort is OK and decent for street use depending on how low the side profile is.
Note there tire sizes are all smaller than stock tire diameter (greater wheel gap and lower ride clearance from the ground).

A good example is-
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 $137 each, 180 treadwear, 205/50-15, 23.1" tire diameter
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec $121 each, 200 treadwear and this also comes in 195/55-15 for $108 closeout, 23.5" tire diameter.
Toyo R1R 195/55-15 $122 each, 140 treadwear, 23.5" tire diameter (this would wear pretty fast for street use).

Many of the Max Summer tires are limited to 17" wheels and some 16" so unless you want to consider this class of tire then you may have to skip them and head for Ultra High Performance Summer tires (or UHP all season if you have cold or snow).

In Ultra High Perf Summer tires-
Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval Indy 500, 320 treadwear
195/55-15 fits rims 5.5-7" wide, tire diameter 23.4" $84 each
205/55-15 fits rims 5.5-7.5" wide, tire diameter 23.9" $88 each
Tirerack tests-
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=131
Handles well in dry but not in wet.

And Yokohama S.Drive, 300 treadwear
195/55-15 fits rims 5.5-7" wide, tire diameter 23.3" $80 each
205/55-15 fits rims 5.5-7.5" wide, tire diameter 23.9" $94 each
This does better in both wet and dry on the above tirerack test.

Since stock tire diameter is 24.4" the closer to that the better for the right ride height and road clearance. Therefore for a 15" wheel, 205/55-15 or 195/55-15 are the better sizes. All of these tires will fit stock MINI 15" wheels so never a need to go with stock 175/65-15 tires unless you get them for free.

As you see when you move away from Extreme Summer tires to Ultra High Perf you get a higher treadwear but the numbers are not perfectly comparable. They are only relative numbers.

Ultra High Performance Summer tires typically don't cost as much, wear longer but compromise handling for treadlife, they are still pretty good. For those with winter weather use check out Ultra High Performance All Season tires which are longer wearing and good for wet or dry and some snow.

Summer tires are not for cold weather or any snow.

 

Thanks for the thorough response. If I plan to drop the car a bit (1.2" i believe) with the WMW sway/spring/control arm package will I have any issues with the above mention sizes?

With 15x7's can I get away with the 30 offset without rubbing? And the 15x8's?

Thanks!

 

For your 2009 R56 Cooper

If you are planning any suspension drop from 1-1.2" lower then
Leave enough space for tire clearance by not using tires much more than 24.4" tire diameter and be careful on how aggressive you make the wheel offset especially as the wheel gets wider.

Assuming you use a tire not much larger than 205/55-15 then

15x7" offset from +30mm to 40mm would be fine, 30mm offset puts the wheel about 1.2" out wider from the wheel well, 40mm offset about 0.8" out wider.
15x8" offset from +26mm to 34mm would be fine, 26mm offset puts the wheel about 1.3" out wider, 34mm offset about 1" out wider.

You can check with the wheel vendor and see what they recommend. You can stretch the offset range out a little but it may be close to rubbing.

I have run 15x8 +36mm offset on my 2003 R53 Cooper S and found it may rub in the rear lower trailing arm area just a bit requiring a 3mm spacer for the rear so that is why I am estimating a 34mm offset.

Note that if you do get some rubbing on the inner side you can add a 3mm spacer and that would be fine. Outmotoring.com has spacers.

The thing about 15x8 wheels is they are heavier and may cost more otherwise they are aggressive and can make more of your tires if you choose a wider tire size like 205mm.

If you do choose 15x8 you have the option of-
225/50-15 fits rims 6-8" wide, tire diameter 23.9"
Kumho Ecsta AST (High Perf All Season)
$69 each 400 treadwear More of a value tire good in dry not in wet.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=yes&tab=Specs

And there are options in Nitto, Cooper, and Toyo Tires not sold by Tirerack.com

 

Absolute best performance would be what I am about to order (both backordered):

Toyo Proxes Tr-1 (or T1-R - anyway, can be had at $63 each for 15.7 lbs. ) 195/45R15 mounted on Konig Helix (11.? lbs. Backbones are cooler and weigh about 1/2 lb. more - can be had for $95ish).

Total wheel/tire weight about 27 lbs. (so save about 10 lbs. per wheel over 16" stock) and diameter about 2' smaller (better acceleration and better handling due to 1" lower center of gravity).

Cannot be beat.

Ps. Minihume - thanks for examples of offset!

 

Something to consider on tires-

195/45-15 fits wheels 6-7.5" wide but is very small with a tire diameter of 21.8" vs stock 24.4". It also has a load rating of 78 (937 lbs) which is too low for the MINI on the street. Usually load rating is about 87 (1201 lbs).

So if you only drive on a track by yourself then using a tire that has minimal
load rating can be done. If you street drive you'll need more usable capacity for some passengers and their gear.

If you drive the MINI with tires that are 2.5" smaller in tire diameter you are increasing wheel gap and decreasing road clearance by 1.2". Not always practical.

The idea of using a performance tire in a smaller than stock size with a light wheel is certainly possible and can be done with reasonable cost.

It's just a matter of finding a wheel that you like within budget that is wide enough. Perhaps 15x6 to 15x7 would be practical and easy to find.

For Toyo Proxes R1R (Extreme Summer tire) 140 Treadwear
195/50-15 $110 each,5.5-7" wide rims, 20 lbs each, 82 load,22.8" tire diam
195/55-15 $122 each,5.5-7" wide rims, 20 lbs each, 85 load,23.5" tire diam
205/50-15 $127 each,5.5-7.5" wide rims, 21 lbs each, 86 load, 23" tire diam

195/55-15 is probably the best compromise for performance on the street that is usable/safe. If you have lowered suspension then any of these can fit OK. These tires also wear out fast.

Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs are also similar in price/sizes and wear about the same (200 Treadwear). Slightly lower weights but similar.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....SSV2&tab=Specs

 

I believe stock height on the "S" is 24" so can be used for comparison purposes. Load is an issue, although I would suggest, as most of us here know, that a 4-person load with luggage for more than a few minutes is "unlikely"?

As for wheel diameter difference of 2", that will produce exactly the same lowering effect as a 1" drop with "costly" lowering springs - which routinely range from .75-1.2?? inches. I am satisfied with the firmness of the OE sport springs/shocks - why pay extra when I can get the same effect with a $63 tire?

many of the tire options are about4-5lbs. heavier (so 16-20 extra pounds of unsprung weight) - why do that? unless you are after a particular tires specific characteristics?

 

FWIW, the overall diameter of the oem tires is about the same regardless of wheel diameter. The different aspect ratios of the 15", 16", and 17" tires result in diameters of 24", 24.4", and 24.3" respectively. If you want to lower your car by simply changing wheels you're going to have to drastically change the aspect ratios of the tires to result in a smaller overall diameter. For example, you could fit 195/45/15 tires and get an overall diameter of 21.8" effectively lowering the car about 1". I suspect those tires might look a little odd in your wheel well.

 

For the Cooper S:
Stock tires are usually-
195/55-16 24.4" tire diameter
205/45-17 24.3" tire diameter

Lowering a MINI by using tires that are 21.8" tire diameter is not a good strategy. That's 2.5" less tire diameter overall. This makes the axle 1.25" lower. This lowers road clearance by 1.25". The stock shocks and springs are designed for tires that are 2.5" taller in diameter so under load the travel of the suspension would have much less road clearance and there is risk of damage.

Looking at 195/45-15 tires with max load rating of 78 or 937 lbs.
2009 R56 Curb Weight Cooper = 2568 lbs (MT) ; 2646 lbs (auto trans)
http://autos.yahoo.com/mini/cooper-h...fications.html

Weight distribution
Front 61%
Rear 39%

Assuming Base Cooper Manual transmission with one 150 lbs driver=2718.
61% x 2718 divided by 2= 829 lbs static load per front tire.
937 - 829 =108 lbs difference between static load and Max tire load under use while cornering, braking or if more than one person is in the car.

Anytime you brake hard or turn fast you load the front tires much more than the rears. How much do you need to be going to shift about 100 lbs more to a front tire? Doesn't take much. What if you exceed the max tire load on a tire? It risks poor handling and performance and tire failure. An overloaded tire heats up faster - actually a common risk in Trucks and RVs under load.

see
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handlin...ling_weightxfr
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-contr...m#.UAZUG-1yH8s
http://www.maxxis.com/AutomobileLigh...re-Safety.aspx
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/help.page#overload

If you don't believe me then talk to any tire specialist. Many shops will only install tires that are stock sized and if plus sizing, then of at least the same or greater load rating not lower load rating. Never mind less tire diameter.


Smaller diameter tires will make the speedometer read faster than normal, and increase the mileage readings on your odometer at a faster than normal rate.
There will be 1.25" greater tire gap. Tires will look out of proportionally smaller.

 

Where are you guys finding Toyo T1R in the 195/45/15 size anyway?

I couldn't find it at Tire Rack (only tire in that size is the Yoko S.drive), Discount Tire, or the Toyo tire website.

The T1R does come in 195/50/15 (22.8" dia.; 1041# max. load), and 195/55/15 (23.5" dia.; 1135# max. load). Both of those sizes are listed at 20#, so a 15.7# 195/45/15 T1R would be extremely light.

Edit: Never mind. I saw them at Online Tires and Tread Depot, so they must exist.