Did they say why?

 

Agreed The Motive's use of pressure is why submerging your drain tube isn't required. I have tried gravity bleed once, and it was very slow for me, much slower than reported.

The 2 man method had worked well for years for me.

I set up 2 street cars on jack stands - and bleed both every 2 years with 1 litre of super blue. It takes 5 minutes a car to bleed, and attach the master cylinder cap and pressure back down, 10 minutes total.

Gettiing all 8 wheels and tires back on, off the stands and torqued takes twice as long as the pressure bleed for me.

The track rat I do corner by corner - and much more often, like every event or 2.

Alex

 

Thanks for the clarification. You are right about the two person method working My problem is that there is no second person who wants to help. And the gravity method also works.

My track rat, also my dd, gets new brake fluid every 4 track days or so; about 4-5 changes a year, sometimes more. Is there a reason to do it more often than 4 track days?

 

Well, I got the Motive pump bleeder and made an attempt this past weekend...

I only have two jacks, so I did the rear of the car first (passenger rear, then driver's side rear), then did the front (passenger side first, then driver's side).

Unfortunately, my Motive bleeder (purchased online) came with a two-piece hose: one hose had one end connected to the pump, and the other end to a brass connector (male-female coupling), then a second section of hose had the reservoir cap on the end. As the instructions dictated, I tested it empty first, and could not appreciate any leaks, but then when I put the fluid in and pumped it to 14 psi, there was a small leak I observed (over time) on a paper towel beneath the coupling....I tightened the coupling with tools, but alas, when all was said and done, the brake pedal (with the ignition on) felt a bit spongy. So, air must have leaked in somewhere!!! Argghhhh....
The metal clamps on the hose were not adjustable, so there was nothing to snug up at those points. I thought about trying to return the bleeder, but decided to just get some vinyl hose from Home Depot, and plan to replace the two-piece tubing with one piece (attaching it via screw-type hose clamps) and try it again this weekend.

Now - for a few questions:

1) I noticed that there was no way to keep from having some air in the hose from the pump to the reservoir. Is this OK? Is there any danger that the air in that line can end up in my brake lines? Other than pumping the fluid to the end of the hose, then quickly attaching it to the reservoir, I don't know how it can be avoided. The reservoir was filled to the top before I attached the hose from the pump.

2) Since I'll be replacing the hose from the pump to the reservoir, does it matter how long the hose is? I'd like to make it long enough so that the pump can rest on the ground outside of the car, rather than in it - so about 5 feet long. Does that matter? Does it matter if the pump is below the reservoir?
These are probably silly questions, but I just want to be sure I don't go through this all again and still have a spongy brake pedal!

3) I had the front brakes replaced with the JCW BBK a couple of years ago. I noticed that the nut on the bleeder is NOT 10mm as are on the stock brakes, but is instead 11 mm in size (JCW just HAD to be different, I guess!) I also noticed that the bleeder nut seems a bit loose after just a little turn (it sort of rocks a bit on the caliper) and I wonder if this would also allow unwanted air into the brake line...How to fix that, I have no idea...

3) I found out, after the fact, that I can actually reach the bleeder nuts by just reaching under the car. Is it really necessary to jack up the car?

Any thoughts or comments appreciated!!!!

Melanie

 

1. Generally OK as long as you move the bubble toward the motive. After I load up the brake fluid, replace the top, I will raise the end the goes into the car's reservior high, then pump it a few times. Then watch the fluid rise up the tube till it just flows out of the top, the quickly connect it to the cars reservior. Try this dry a coupleof times so you know exactly how it connects. Have some paper towels ready.

2. No, does not matter how long the hose is. I usually put the pump a little higher that the reservior in the engine bay.

3. I usually have a small hose on the drain side that I use with a little connector that fits there. It is a two foot transparent plastic hose. I connect that before starting to bleed. Keep the hose low and I usually have the other end in a can to collect the used fluid. I can also watch for bubbles while bleeding. You do not have to untighten the 11mm nut too much. Stop when a decent amount offluid comes out.

4. No, if you can reach back there, you are fine. Sometimes I use ramps, etc.

Hope this helps.

PS: I might return the motive for a new one since yours leaks. I do not have that brass thingy on mine since it is about 15 years old.

 

I teflon tape the junction every time I change resevoir tops. Only will need to do it once if you don't change tops. I get to bleed the whole family's cars so I change tops often!

Alex

 

Like others I'm open to alternative methods. There's more than one way to skin the cat.

Personally a gravity bleed to flow old fluid out followed by a few pressure pumps from a helper into a conventional bleeder bottle has always sufficed my needs.

The problems with both the pressure systems AND the two-man systems is usually not with the products or methods so much as the experience level of the operator! Even a gravity flow to flush can go wrong if you let the reservoir run dry.

Pressurizing the system or suction devices don't ensure a 'better bleed' (arguably some might say potentially less better) they only speed up the process. So too the two-man system. Bleeding is not about pressure, it's about displacement. Stomping on the pedal or forcing fluid through at 20psi is only going to move quicker.

From my experience the problems with pressure tools is aeration and fit issues that if something goes wrong suddenly you you've got a problem because that flow is so fast. On the other hand the two-man system is only as good as the communication being shouted. (admit it; you've been there)

Same can be sad for those who argue sequence of bleeding. If the system is not bone dry there's no need to do them in any specific order- they're all in individual feeds on today's cars. Not like an old VW where you'd suck fluid from one side to the other. (dating myself here...) If you only want a bleed or flush you can do it in any order and know when you have fresh fluid as it's always cleaner.

Like a lot of automotive things: there's not 'right' answer. Just options.