I had my mini lowered using Eibach Pro springs about 6 months ago. A month or so later I replaced my run-falts with Yokohama ES100s (215/45/17). Everything was fine. I love the ride of the Eibach and Yokohama combination. It is still hard but not harsh. Driving comfort is important to me since I drive lots of surface streets (26 miles one way) with various conditions to and from work every day. I also have a strut bar installed, but no anti-sway or control arms. And I did not replace the shocks.

Over time the Eibach springs settled a little more. I do not really know by how much but definantely well over an inch and a half. For about a week now, whenever I am to run over a rough patch, like a railway crossing, or make a sharp turn the rear tire(s) rub the arche(s) of the wheel well. I tried shaving the inside the arches - this improved the situation a little but it is still there.

I would hate to replace the tires. Will installing control arms and anti-sway bars help. At least, if I am to do that, I will be making further investment in my MINI as oppose to repacing the tires. Any sugestions, please?

 

Felix 88,
Aloha and welcome to MCO-
Sorry to hear about your rubbing. The info you are giving is incomplete.
What are your rims? Size and offset. This makes a huge difference. If the rim size is greater than 7 inches like 8 then it gets easy to rub. If the offset is not like the 42 to 48mm of the stock MINI then there is likely to be trouble.
37mm tends to be too little offset. Changing swaybars will not help since you get the rubbing even going straight over rough surfaces. Rubbing is usually worse with a full load in the rear- passengers. Is this true for you? Or are you getting rubbing with just a driver? Not so good.

Also it might be worth checking alignment. If you have too much negative camber esp in the rear then that could be adjusted. If you have rear adjustable control arms (the lower pair will do) then it becomes easy to set the alignment however you want. Some people like -1.0 degrees for agressive cornering. More negative is good but may wear the tires inner edge more unless you are careful to rotate tires at fixed intervals.

I have an MCS with H-sport springs (1 inch lower front and rears), pair of adjustable H-sport control arms in the rear, madness rear swaybar, stock swaybar in the front, Centerline RPM rims 17x7 with 42mm offset and Yoko AVS ES 100 in 215/45-17 with alignment set to negative 0.75 degrees in the rear. Everything works just fine and no rubbing ever-not even close with a huge load in the back.

 

Thanks for the info Minihune. As far as wheel and tire setup, we are very much similar. I have the OZ Racing Superlaggera in 17x7. with 42mm offset. And we have the same tire size, 215/45/17. The main difference is that I do not have the control bars. Furthermore, I do belive I need to redo the alignment.

Incidentally, I have this problem even when I am alone in the car.

 

I would suggest checking all suspension parts for tight fit and all mechanically sound first. Maybe something like a link is broken, bent or loose. Rule this out then take it for alignment. Even if you don't have the adjustable rear control arm a very good brake and alignment specialty shop can do some adjustment to get you within factory specs.
See this thread and my post for factory alignment specs:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&topic=717
Check the lug nuts on each wheel to make sure that they did not get loose.
Also- for your wheels, did you get centering rings to center your new wheels onto the MINI's hubs? My rims needed centering rings that were sized 72mm-54mm. If you did not get them then you may need them to mount the wheels correctly and safely. Please do check that the wheel fits. If you take the wheel off then place it onto the hub with no lug nuts then the wheel should hang on the hub and be centered. This provides for a correct and centered position with relation to the MINI's axle. Then the lug nuts are tightened and fastened for safety and fit.

 

<<I have an MCS with H-sport springs (1 inch lower front and rears), pair of adjustable H-sport control arms in the rear, madness rear swaybar, stock swaybar in the front, Centerline RPM rims 17x7 with 42mm offset and Yoko AVS ES 100 in 215/45-17 with alignment set to negative 0.75 degrees in the rear. Everything works just fine and no rubbing ever-not even close with a huge load in the back.>>

Morn'n Minihune....

My setup is very similar.
215/45-17 tires, 17 x 7 wheels w/ a 42 offset, rear sway bar, stock sway bar in the front.

I've been putting off lowering because of ..the "rubbing" issues.

What did the H-Sport springs & pair of H-Sport (lower I assume ?)control arms cost.?
Installation costs as well ?

What is the "normal" alignment set to?
How did you come up with a number...negative.75 degrees ?
How does this number affect tire wear as I don't auto-x...I just drive...aggressively..alot ...lol ?

Thanks in advance

Peace,
D


_________________
I own a 2002 MCS w/ alot of stuff on it.

 

>>My setup is very similar.
>>215/45-17 tires, 17 x 7 wheels w/ a 42 offset, rear sway bar, stock sway bar in the front.
>>
>>I've been putting off lowering because of ..the "rubbing" issues.
Hello D,

>>What did the H-Sport springs & pair of H-Sport (lower I assume ?)control arms cost.?
>>Installation costs as well ?
H-sport Springs are $239 for the set
http://www.mini-motorsport.com/suspension.php
H-sport Rear adjustable toe/camber control arms are $242 for 2 and $460 for 4
Install time about 3 to 4 hours for springs to springs and control arms at $60 per hour.


>>What is the "normal" alignment set to?
See alignment specs here-
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&topic=717
>>How did you come up with a number...negative.75 degrees ?
Negative camber in the rear is about -2.5 degrees after installing aftermarket springs like H&R or H-sport. Stock camber in the rear varies but runs about negative 1.5 degrees. With the right equiptment at the alignment shop and/or with my adjustable rear control arms, I can choose a range of negative camber settings for the rear from negative 0.5 degrees on up. You want some negative because as the car takes a corner the wheel will tend to stand itself up and approach zero degrees or even positive camber. The ideal is to have just enough negative camber on the rear wheels as to corner with the wheel at zero degrees camber. There is no one right number- it may depend on the wheelset you use, the tires, the rear swaybar settings for stiffness and your driving style in corners. I spoke with Randy Webb about the range of settings he would start with and decided it could be anywhere from negative 0.5 to neg. 1 degree.

>>How does this number affect tire wear as I don't auto-x...I just drive...aggressively..alot ...lol ?
The greater the negative camber in the rear the more you are riding on the inside edge of the rear tires and wearing them down. If you rotate the wheels every 4000-5000 miles you will likely do OK. If you corner at higher speeds often even on the streets only it will wear your tires- esp if you have soft rubber like Yoko Parada Spec 2 or Falken Azenis Sports. So negative 0.5 degrees would be quite easy on the tires for wear but not as good on hard cornering.

 

I would contact Eibach right away. Those springs should never settle 1.5". If they in fact did, I'm sure Eibach will replace or refund. I have had Eibachs on my 99 Accord V6 for over 2 years with no increase in drop.

 

>>I would contact Eibach right away. Those springs should never settle 1.5". If they in fact did, I'm sure Eibach will replace or refund. I have had Eibachs on my 99 Accord V6 for over 2 years with no increase in drop.

Yes, I would agree. Something is not right.
The Eibach pros are supposed to lower the fronts by 1 inch and the rears by 1.2 inches.
My springs did settle a little but all still within the 1 inche front and rears.
Let us know what you find.

 

I agree with not accepting the poor quality of the Eibach, contact them right away. However, that is not the main issue.

Are you sure your Superleggera's are 7wide offset 42? I thought they were offset 37, and this would definitely cause rubbing almost regardless of tire. The less the offset number, the more the wheel sticks out.

My Example: I had S-lites with 5mm spacers (so basically 17x7 et 45) with the stock 205/45-17 Pirellis and H-Sport springs, and I had just the faintest rubbing on the rear fender liner, totally nothing serious, and nothing to worry about it was so litte. I'm sure a wider wheel, tire or lower suspension would cause nothing but more rubbing, and if your Eibach's are "sagging", and you have 215/45-17's, then I'd almost expect rubbing with a similar offset. However, it sounds like your rubbing is much more extreme. I've found that this is quite variable with the MINI; no two MINI's rub the same way
Good luck,
Ryan

 

>>I've found that this is quite variable with the MINI; no two MINI's rub the same way
>>

Very true! I get a small amount of rubbing in the rear with my setup and though I've asked around I haven't found anyone else who does.

>>Changing our your springs may help, but your wheel/tire combo is the biggest culprit, I'd say. Switcting to an OEM size of 205/45-17 would reduce lots of rubbing.

That doesn't sound right to me. Felix said everything was fine for nearly six months but that the car has been lowering itself gradually "well over an inch and a half" and the trouble started only a week or so ago. In my opinion, the only reason to change the wheels/tires at this point is to compensate for the sagging springs.

Felix - if you ARE fond of the much lower stance, then there's nothing wrong with the springs as they are....as long as they don't sag even further. Then the only solution is as Ryan said - change the tire width and hope that's enough. If you want to keep the tires and don't need the extra 1.5" lowering, you need to contact the folks who sold you those springs...or contact Eibach directly.

 

Thank you for your imputs. Checked all suspensions - struts, sway bars and control bars (all stock by the way) and everything was fine. So I had the stock rear springs reinstalled. And problems gone. In fact I even like the look better... there is just about 2" clearance. I must say that its stance looks a little more agressive since I did not reinstall the front stock springs. Before the reinstall, the MINI looks as if it's almost dragging it rear-end on the ground. Compared to Minihune's MINI, I have only about half the clearance. I feel something is either wrong with the Eibach springs I have. Eibach springs has always been great for me before - I also still have them on my wife's Audi. Great ride and improved handling.

I did not change the front springs yet.... I know some may say this is a bad idea. I will be driving it around for a week to see how if really feels and respond. So far after I have had only about 3 or so miles driving around my neighborhood, I seem to like it, although, I think I need the rear anti-sway bar.

Thanks

 

i got yoko es 100s on my mini with 17X8 inch wheels, 215/45/17s
stock suspension

with one person in the back, it rubs over freeway bumps and one hard corners

 

You changed your rear springs only back to stock! I would be cautious. Contact Eibach and report your problem-they can replace the set or the rears as needed. If your fronts are still about a one inch drop then you are OK. That picture of my wheel was the rear with a one inch drop and that has stayed constant for the last 600 miles. In fact if I get into the car and sit in the back there is no change in height from the outside!

Anyway I don't think it is advisable to mix and match springs. Sort of like having different size tires on the front and rear when they should be the same. Be careful and seek professional advice. Talk to alex@tirerack and Eibach.
Good luck and let us know how you do. Be safe.

 

>>You changed your rear springs only back to stock! I would be cautious. Contact Eibach and report your problem-they can replace the set or the rears as needed. If your fronts are still about a one inch drop then you are OK. That picture of my wheel was the rear with a one inch drop and that has stayed constant for the last 600 miles. In fact if I get into the car and sit in the back there is no change in height from the outside!

I hope that your drop will stay the same. Mine was fine initially. But after approx 9,000 miles my problems started.

Variables, variables, variables. Is it safe to change only the rear and not the front springs? Probably not. Is it safe to change tire sizes, rims and offsets, the rear anti sway bar but not the front, the lower control arms but not the top, or change anything for that matter? Probably not. Is it safe to replace with anti-sway bar from Alta and springs from Eibach, or HK, or KW? Probably not. What combinations of springs, sway bars, etc were being used when these after market products are being developed? I don't know. The character of any one componant is dependent on the other componants. So are any of these changes we so glad make really safer. The after market companies would like us to believe that they are... but are they really? I am not sure. I would say that my best bet for the safest is stock. Why? because of the R&D that goes into the development of the vehicles as a package and the product liability the manufacture have to bear. All other after market mods change the characteristics of the vehicle, especially since we mix and match and to make matters worest, with componants from the different developers/manufacturers. After having said all that, even stock vehicles are not all the same. You have different tires and wheels, different suppliers of parts to the manufacturer, and even if from the same supplier, different production batch and different supplies to them as well.

So like I said earlier, it's all variables. So why do it? Because we are all suckers, yours truly included. I am slowly working up my MINI's hp...... but do I need the extra hps. No! So why do it? Because I just like the idea of having them. I said earlier that I maybe would replace my rear stock anti-sway bar. Do I really need to? Where is the data to say that it would make "my" MINI safer? And how many sharp turns do I do? Probaly one or two a week and probably at 35mph. Am I therefore an idiot? Yes, but as far as the MINI is concern I am a happy one.

So is it safe to have changed only the rear springs back to stock and not the front. Maybe not but I sure like how it looks. I think I know the answer that Alex@trierack.com and Eibach will give me. "Don't do it." Why I may ask; and they will give me a pitch of that the fronts and the back are developed to work together and its not safe to mix and match.... Hmmm, so did Eibach used the Eibach anti-sawy bars in the development springs. Is it okay for me to use BMP's anti-sway bar instead? In the development, did Eibach changed both the front and the rear bars?....... Lastly, is it safe that my drop is over 1.5" at the rear when I read someway that the Eibach drop is 1.2" and another place 1.4". So are my Eibach springs safe? Facinating, eh?

 

Well it sounds like you've been thinking about options. Other opinions can be had from the tuners: Eric and Chris from Helix 13 and Randy Webb are all good reliable sources. Try to reach them and see that they think. Eibach and Alex will likely tell you as you mentioned but mostly from a liability standpoint- they don't want to take any responsibility for mix and matching components like springs. It's probably not as harmful mixing certain springs with various swaybars from different companies but it may be true some will fit or work better than others. There can be rubbing issues esp with the firmest settings on the swaybar plus use of aftermarket links (they are a little thicker than stock).

It's of concern that your rear springs changed after 9000 miles. Doesn't seem right.
The amount of drop is actually a rough average based on more variables. The springs are rated for a certain amount of load. It's not always as exact as it might seem. I will have to watch carefully then- which I should be doing anyway. So far I have about 6200 total miles and the suspension upgrades only have a few 1000 miles on them.

Thanks again for your comments and info. If the "tuners" have anything more to add please let us know.

 

Well the change in the drop did not happen over night. It was more of a gradual thing. I was told from the outset that they will drop a little more. But I wasn't counting on the type of drop I got. Now that I got the stocks back in. The drop was actaully around 2 inches. Actually measured it with a ruler just now.