new ball joints......

So, I'm trying to get the suspension sorted. And I didn't like the spring rates in the used Ledas I'd gotten, and had bottoming issues up front. So I went to 325 lb/in front springs, and Hotchkiss competition adjustable camber plates. While going through all this I figured out that my front bushing were trashed, so I put in the Alta PSRS at the same time.

OK, dropping the front sub frame takes some muscles. Not to hard, but a physical job. It all went back together a few days ago and I'm starting to shake it out.

1) Ride is much impoved compared to the shot bushings, but it's a bit rougher than stock for sure. The combo of the spring rates and the solid bushings have increased NVH on rough roads, but I was pleasantly surprised that on smooth roads you can't tell that it's not the stock bushings.

2) The front end is much more planted and "connected" for sure. Accelerating and braking are both more controlled.

3) Now I have to work the sway bars. The front has more roll stiffness than it did from the heavier springs, so now I've got a bit more understeer than I did. But interestingly it's not as hard to deal with due to the new bits in the front.

Anyway, I had a neighbor drive the car, and while he too agrees it's not perfect yet, he said it was already better than what he was driving (he fell into the much stiffer spring, underdamped bouncy trap). Now he'll be looking at some softer front springs....

I use my pregnant wife as a "road tester" for the changes. She immediatly commented on the improvement from the bad bushings to good (they go bad slowly, so you don't realize how much they suck until you fix them) but it's still a bit bouncy for a 7 month pregnant womans taste.... But it didn't get any frowns that imply "put it back the way it was or I won't ride in it!"

Matt

 

Pregnant wife "road tester"?!?!?!?!?! Major cojones on your part! BTW, have you ever had to have your LEDAs rebuilt? I was quoted 150 each for the job and was wondering if this was a good price.

 

Karl Poeltl
Racer's Edge
912 Blackstone Drive
Knoxville, TN 37934
www.racersedge-inc.com
865-675-8285
865-675-8249 (fax)

$100 each last time I checked. And no, I haven't needed to yet.

Matt

 

Would you recommend the ALta PSRS as a preventitive measure?

 

I've only had them on for a few days. I haven't formed an opinion yet. There's something to be said for a wife that doesn't comment on the bumps....

Matt

 

I've had a set of bushings go bad, so I can appreciate the "wow, what an improvement" feeling with new ones.

"on smooth roads you can't tell..." That's what worries me about the Alta parts. You know how often we get to drive on a *smooth* road here in NorCal.

 

Hey Doc, this is OT to this thread, but perhaps tangential overall: since you've got the car out now assessing the suspension, does that mean that the header/exhaust are also installed?

 

With regard to the Alta PSRS, which orientation did you use?

 

That is SO true. So far after a couple of weeks, I'm very happy with the PSRS+Leda+camberplate+etc solution.

 

How can you tell when your front bushings are trashed?

 

they'll leak, or excessive play.

 

Dr. O: what is your opinion on the PSRS? i've been waiting for an update.
meb: what are you currently doing w/ your suspension and car. i see many bits for sale. with what are you replacing them?
i always look forward to both of your opinions on things (particularly suspension) thanks, greg

 

All the changes I made are working out better (but not finished yet... I guess I never will be ), but it's hard to know exactly what to attribute everything to.
But it cannot be understated how much something like this reduces the allignment changes that happen as the control arm moves around in the bushing....
And they contribute less noise than the comp camber plates.
I went for the "10-2" position, with some anti-dive and some caster increase. I also have stiffer springs on the car. Slam the brakes and it doesn't pitch much. How much is the anti-dive and how much the increased spring rate I have no clue.....

Matt

 

I wasn't on your list but I now have 1000 miles and a three day DE with the PSRS installed. I was hoping they would stop the back and fourth movement I was getting under hard braking. I'm talking seriously hard 120mph to 30mph threshold braking. Problem solved. Turn-in is better. Front end is solid. I can't find anything bad about these. I'm very happy that I put these on my track car.

 

Ok i'm stumped, what the heck are these things?

 

The Alta Positive Steering Response System. Basically a replacement for the front lower control arm bushing.
Link:http://www.altaminiperformance.com/p...esponse-System

 

...going stock...too many problems with too many components...some from very well know companies, but that's another story. I put a track only car budget together with Don and I'll begin it next year. I simply drive too many commuter miles for a combo car - and this mini ain't mine.

I will use the PSRS on a track only car...salt and snow cannot be good for this part???

 

I think you are making a wise decision. I only drive my track MINI on the street when going to and from the track, rarely for other reasons. Driving the track MINI on the street is now literally a PITA.
The track MINI is paid for and totally mine. I leased the R56 as an incentive to help me leave it alone. I did wheels, tires and a shift ****. That's all I'll do to the the street MINI.
I haven't had the issues you have had with the aftermarket parts but the more I change, the less comfortable it gets on the street. When the comfort level crossed the threshold, I chose track-only over a compromise. I may regret the decision some day but so far, both MINIs put a grin on my face albeit for different reasons.

 

thanks to all who have responded here. i think i'll put a set on. Dr. O: i, too, have made multiple suspension changes simultaniously and liked the result, but can't put a value on any specific component. the only thing i dislike about my car's current state of tune if the unsettled feeling under threshold braking. i'm hoping this will help. meb: i understand your dilema w/ a dual purpose car. i can't decide if i want to buy another MINI and go SSB racing or continue to develop my current car to the point where it isn't any fun as a street car. still to be resolved. vader: thanks for the input. you have accurately described my worst problem (threshold braking from high speeds).

 

play in what?

 

The front control arm. A shot bushing allows for the control arm to do something less than ideal control. You get toe and caster (probably camber) changes during hard braking and acceleration.

Matt

 

No, he's on second...

 

Dr Obnxs and Vader: have you had your car realigned since you have had the PSRS installed? I plan to install the PSRS later this week at a friend's shop. Any words of wisdom before we start? I have 2 vehicles, so my MCS isn't quite a daily driver, but still driven a lot. I'm planning for a pretty aggressive setup for daily spirited driving and occasional autocrosses....

 

I had PSRS bushing installed last week.
My car was up on a lift and lowering the sub frame was not required for removal and installation.

Bushings are aligned at the 12 and 6 clocking position, the "preferred" position as shown in the installation instructions.

The front lower control arms had no binding when I swung the arms up and down by hand.
The delrin (acetal resin) bushing must be of a spherical design to allow such movment.

The car was immediately checked for alignment.
I was surprised no adjustments were required.
Caster is now 5 degrees for left and right.

With the car stationary and turning the steering wheel lock to lock, I can feel the car rocking. Similar to a gokart.
Kind of rethinking that I should of installed the bushing at the 45 degree clocking for "anti-lift".
I'm now presuming "anti-lift" means not as much rocking when turning the steering wheel lock to lock due to less caster.

The car feels allot more stable at braking or when weight transfer occurs during cornering, freeway driving and a few canyon test runs.
The ride is not harsher.

My OEM bushing did not fail, but were getting weaker as time went on. I could feel that on the track.

I'm up at Thunderhill this weekend and will evaluate the added caster and rocking.

kmickey

 

I had the PSRS installed in the anti-lift position. I installed these to stabilize the front end, not for caster. The install was done while the sub frame was out for other reasons (quaife, spec stage 3+ clutch and flywheel install) so I had to have the alignment done. I can't associate any added vibration, noise or harshness directly to the PSRS. As far as I can tell, its all good. The first DE with these was great. I have another this weekend, a faster track where the front end has felt uncomfortable before so I'll have more to talk about on Monday.