I was just wondering if there are any handling benefits to be had by installing a front strut bar, such as the ones from M7, Alta, Alutec etc

I would think that it would stiffen the front and assist turn in, but are there deleterious effects in handling? Would this add to more oversteer or understeer at the limit?

I understand from Randy Webb's website that this would contribute to more understeer and his advice would be to stay away from front strut bars.

As an aside, would installing a front strut bar help to prevent mushrooming?

Cheers

 

Well................
You are likely to get many views of the benefits of a strut tower bar. I would say you are likely to only get mental effects. I have never seen much benefit from such bars. Others have a very different view.

However, I don't think there is a down side. They do look good.

Only the M7 really make much difference with mushrooming. I just got the SRPs because of my view of the benefits of a bar.

Your choice.

 

I have an MC, and I noticed (or think I noticed?) a difference. I had to take it off because the clearance between them and my bonnet was too close. :/ To me, it was worth the money.

 

I have no analytical data suggesting a significant effect from my M7 STB, but I can share a qualitative improvement with you...

I used to always scrape the bottom of my front bumper pulling into or out of my driveway, I have found that with the addition of the STB I no longer scrape. Even after going from stock springs to the TSW springs (ride height 1/2" lower)

I don't bottom out with the STB in place , take it off and it scraaaaapes!

 

One of the M7 guys claims that he can hands down tell the difference between a car with/without his strut bar...I got the M7 plates to help prevent mushrooming...

 

The benefit for me was that the M7 strut bar helps prevent mushrooming. I can tell no difference in handling though.

 

Not to be a turd, but that just doesn't make any sense at all. How would the strut tower brace have any effect on ride height or spring action?? I, too, have the TSW springs installed, and I also scrape my air dam on the driveway going out. I've noticed that I don't scrape as much or as often since I had the springs installed, but I attribute that to the fact that the rear dropped more than the front (the front is about where it was before with the old springs) and the front bumper is rotated upwards a bit.

Don't mean to be argumentative, and I'll take your word for observations, but it just seems really strange.

 

No offense taken!! It doesn't affect ride height at all, it does effect the relative movment between the tops of your strut towers. I think it is the stiffening of the suspension that helps prevent the scraping. As you have described even lowering the ride height but stiffening the suspension with the TSW springs helps some, adding the STB made much more of a difference for me probably because of the angle I back out of the driveway and the slope of the curve.

I've wanted to rig some way of measuing the relative movment between the tops of the strut towers to see if there really is a measurable difference with and without the STB but it seems I'm either too busy (or when I have the time too lazy) to get around to it. That's why I limit my comments to qualitative observations here

 

I used to scrape on quite a few road humps and coming out of my drive, but that also seems to have stopped since I put the FSB on. It could also be down to the mushrooming which I had previously and my having replaced both strut mounts though.

I think I feel more immediate turn in during steering input. Anyone on handling effects at the limit?

Cheers

 

The only strut tower bar for the Mini that I have seen worth anything is the OMP because it utilizes a preload adjustment. The rest are just poseur bars that make the hood stick up and servicing the air box, ecu, and headers difficult. If you are not running R compounds (or slicks) and pushing the car to its limit what’s the point? To have another place to put a sticker?

 

Body blow body low, left hook, body blow body blow




...just havin' fun anti-poseur!

 

Here's a little story from one of my other toys that may help...

I asked the same question to a guy who race-preps Porsches... he tied a string tightly to each shock tower (onto the studs).

He then jacked up the car (an '86 944 Turbo) and the string sagged about 1".

This is caused by the "chassis flex" or shock towers moving rel. to one another... a well designed brace fixes this.
Not all braces are equal.

Could you feel the difference? Well that depends on how flexible the strut towers are, and how sensitive you are to changes...

HTH.

 

Sorry, got that exactly bass-ackwards... the car was jacked up when the string was tied, and when lowered, it sagged...

 

I don't put stickers on my car... They'd have to pay me to do that

The problem with strut bars (and most other mini aftermarket parts) is that there is very little data (if any) reported on any of these products (I haven't seen any data suggesting OMP is any better than the other STBs either, maybe you have some experimental data you can post?). Without data any purchase will be based on personal preference and at best, qualitative observation. Saying something doesn't work without showing the data to validate that claim is meaningless to me.

I bought the M7 bar because I liked the way it looked and it had a nice flat surface that fits over the strut and seemed like it might help with mushrooming. (purely qualitative observation and personal preference)

I kept it because it stopped my car from scraping when I pull into or out of my driveway and I haven't had any more issues with mushrooming when it is on. (again a qualitative obervation based on my personal experience)

My hood doesn't stick up and it's never bothered me getting at the intake box or ECU.

Bottom line: Noone has provided real data and experimental protocols (data is only as good as the experiment!) to demonstrate the superiority of one product over another. Therefore any purchase will be based on personal preference and at best qualitative observation.

For me, the M7 STBserves my purpose so I keep it. If it didn't I would sell it and find something else

 

Ever setup cars? Why you want a preload adjustment on the bar is because without one you are potentially loading the towers when they are supposed to be unloaded. What if the tolerances are off a little bit? What are you going to do? Jam an unadjustable bar in that loads the towers? And if the tolerances are off with an adjustable bar you can compensate for it.

 

I didn't have to jam it in. If it didn't fit I wouldn't use it.

And we still don't have any data

 

So because of this happening on a Porsche you need a strut tower bar on a MINI?

 

Those who haven't tried a strut-top brace that is adjustable for pre-load are talking from ignorance.

As someone who installed the OMP strut and frame braces yesterday, I can tell you that they make a significant difference in the handling and feel of the car, and the differences are all positive.

I'd recommend both products for any MINI owner who loves carving twisty roads, and who wants a nice handling tweak at a moderate price.

I would not recommend any strut brace that is not adjustable for pre-load on the bar, i.e. 90% of the strut brace-like bling that gets sold at inflated prices...

 

...data...a couple of folks performed a rahter crude experiement with a special strut bar; one side had a female end and the other a male end. A zip tie was fastened to the male end so that it made contact with the female end and marked. After driving a number of laps on a track they found that the zip tie barely moved...less than 1/32". The car was a track car with R compound tires.

I installed the M7 bar on my car. I've since taken it off and reinstalled it and I cannot tell the difference. The engine and transaxle perform the same function in this car. My 99 Si, however, required a strut bars - upper in the front and rear! The differnce in thsi car was sobering!!! The mini is a completely different animal.

 

So the strut towers were deforming at least 1/16" toward and presumably away from each other? That's at the top brace?

Does the M7 brace have a preload adjustment? I can't tell from their web site. Without at least a light pre-load on it, a strut-top brace can be less than effective, according to George of Mini-Madness.

All I can tell you is what i feel in my car. With the two OMP braces, there is less plastic rattle, less obvious body flex symptoms (like glass moving), and more controlled cornering on mediocre-surfaced hairpins. I'd recommend the braces.

Your mileage may vary...

 

The SPARCO bar has the same style adjuster as the OMP. I'd take a photo of it, but it's out getting powder-coated.
Jim

 

The Promini/BMP and JCW braces have preload adjustment.