Looking for anyone who has experience with a similar setup to mine:
Stock MCS springs/struts
R-compound tires
22mm solid rear sway bar
Adjustable camber plates (set at 2 deg negative)


Here is my question:
I have a track day coming up this weekend (not to mention a snowy northern Ohio winter after that). I'm debating on weather or not to leave my 22mm bar on, set at the softest of 3 settings or to reinstall my stock 17mm bar.

I've run the 22mm bar at full soft at the last autocross of the season-no question it made a huge improvement over stock, still some push but lift-throttle oversteer was easy to induce but also easy to control. For low speed autocross I'm thinking that middle or stiffest setting might be best.

I'm thinking that full soft may still be a bit too much for a highspeed track event- my car seemed suprisingly neutral with a 100% stock suspension w/ r-compounds at Mid-Ohio this summer. I do have track experience under my belt, but you won't see me driving for F1 next year either....

My conservitave side tells me to go back to the stock bar, and that will be just fine on the track- and at the same time I'll have a much more relaxed winter of driving on slick roads.

What do you guys say?

Thanks,

Jason

 

2 things (neither of which answer your question)

1) A well balanced car is funner to drive in the snow/ice/etc..... But you're right, you want to have the skills to do it. If you plan on driving A LOT in the snow/ice, then see #2.

2) You don't have to remove a sway bar to reduce it's effect on the car. You can simply disconnect/remove one of the sway bar links and leave the other one in place. This will have the same effect as removing the sway bar. And by leaving the other side connected, the sway bar won't flop around and come into contact with anything.

Sorry this doesn't answer your question.

 

22mm is a significant jump from the factory rear swaybar.

 

No problem, by not answering my question you might help me rephrase my question to clear it up a little :-P


in response to #1) I totally agree, nothing tops a well balanced car in the snow, that is the question- will my car be well balanced in the snow (or on a road course), or will it become a oversteering nightmere in low friction conditions? Having spent the past 6 winters in such a vehicle I don't doubt my skills at controlling the oversteer, but I would rather drive the well balanced vehicle-that is more enjoyable if you ask me.

in response to #2) unhooking the rear bar is always an option, if I do leave the 22mm bar in for the track day you bet I'll have tools to disconnect the end link with me....but as much as going from 17mm to 22mm was a huge jump, going from 22mm to 0mm is going to be an even bigger jump- I'm fairly certain that running no rear bar is going to make my car push much more than I'd like.


Thanks for the input guys,

Jason

 

I'm "guessing" that as long as it's on it's softest setting you'll be okay.

Heck, the 21mm bar at it softest setting may be SOFTER than the non-adjustable 17mm bar.

There's a local race shop that has a device that measures the stiffness of sway bars. That would be useful to test with!

 

From the research I did prior to purchasing my Alta 22mm, they state the following:
19mm: +115%, 141%, 178%
22mm: +213%, 260%, 329%

my 22mm at the softest setting is still stiffer than even the 19mm at full stiff.


Jason

 

JMHO? Start at full soft... run a session and decide if you need to change it... Better to err on the side of caution, I always say - especially if there's Armco involved...

All it takes is a couple wrenches and a bit of time!

 

With as well as it worked full soft at the last autocross, I'm concerned that full soft will be too stiff on the road course- the only adjustment I have from there is to disconnect. I'm not afraid to adjust inbetween sessions, I just would rather not have to disconnect the thing and put up with terrible push if I am going to be better off with the stock bar.



Jason

 

You should be fine, then... just be smooth!

 

Jason you should be fine. Yes that's a large rear sway bar. You aren't going for ultimate lap times. You are going to learn your car. Take it easy & drive within your limits.

I'm not sure I'd want to have that rear bar on in the winter. Do you switch to winter tires? If so it may be livable.

Have fun at Beaver Run. I wish I was going.

 

I ran my 22 mm bar on stiffest setting last winter without a problem. but we really didn't see much bad weather. This year I will be running snow tires for the first time.

 

Thanks guys.....
Yes, I do switch to Blizzaks during the winter months, so that much is working for me.
True, lap times may not be the ultimate goal of the track day, but.....I do have enough track time under my belt that driving within my limits is hustling my MINI around pretty fast on the R-compound tires. I'll probably have room on my tire trailer so I might just bring along the stock sway bar and if I determine that the 22mm bar is just too much I'll sit out a session and change back to stock.

Jason

 

I put my 22mm on during the winter here in DC, and had no issues last year.

 

I'm running a 22mm rspeed on the softest setting with Toyo RA-1's on an MC and it's quite nice on the track. Give your set-up a try, you'll probably love it.

 

What size RA-1's? I corded my Hoosier R3's back in September, this will be my first track day with my new shaved 225/45-15 RA-1's. What sort of tire pressures to you run (might help give me a ballpark idea where to start). I did one autocross with them so far, they seemed to like right around 40 psi hot.

Thanks,
Jason

 

Last year we didn't have crap for snow. No wonder you had no issues.

 

You can run the 22mm bar at the track. Just be very careful until you learn the course. Lift off the throttle in the wrong situation and you could find yourself *** backwards off track.

I run the 19mm and at my first track day I could run the car pretty hard by the end of the day and not worry too much about the rear coming around. Now on turn 4 at Summit Point, one time I did hit it a little off and felt the rear get light. The instructor said he felt it too. That turn is the fastest on the course and not one I would want to swap ends on.

 

205/50/15's on holeys. I put in 35psi cold. No problems at all on high speed turns as long as you are on the gas. A light and momentary lift will bring it around nicely. Not too much. Throttle steer is nice, controllable and predictable.

 

A quick follow-up incase anyone cares:

I just returned from my track day at Beaverun- I left the 22mm bar at full soft all day and the car handled wonderfully! As long as I was smooth and didn't do anything stupid (like lifting mid corner..) the car was very well behaived and the level of grip was excellent!

Jason

 

Jason, glad it worked out for you. You had a great day to be at the track.

 

Glad it worked out for you, Jason.
I did one track day with the stock bar (on OEM Pirellis) and I plowed all day.
The next one I did with the 22mm on full soft (same tires) and it felt very balanced.

 

I just got 22mm alta bar, and i learned alot from this thread. I will install the bar on the middle setting. I also have H sport springs, i think the combo will do .

 

^^ middle setting? thought there was only soft and hard... or do you
have adjustable endlinks?

 

Driver skill is the key, not swaybar settings.

I would have suggested keeping the 22m and set to softest.
No need for the stock rear swaybar or for disconnecting the 22mm bar.

Just drive smooth and no matter which bar you have you will be fine.

This is because when you drive smooth you are not really driving at the limit and using the full extent of the rear sway bar. It's working but you are not overworking it. On a dry track in good weather and using stiffer settings and track tires you can reach the limit.

I set my upgraded suspension for track or autocross and just drive it on the road. Coilovers give some adjustment to dampening and that helps but daily driving is fine albeit a bit more bumpy than stock.

 

all that ice driving aside...lol
how about us florida peeps?

i'm running a stock swaybar in the rear, i'm thinking of doing the kw version 1's and either a 19mm or 22mm rear bar.

i won't be running any races but would like good/neutral handling when driving aggressively.
so 19 or 22?