Okay guys - starting to focus on suspension.

I have added a 19mm rear sway bar and would like to take the next step to having a street suspension for agressive / enthusiatic driving. So for the budget enthusiast - what do I do ?

I would like the car to retain some comfort but firmer than stock is fine. whether the car height is changed or not is un-important.

 

Assuming you are no longer running the run flat tires......

Koni FSDs (do a search about these). $629.00 retail.
H-Sport Spriings. $215.00 +/-.
Noltec Rear Control Arms. $300.00 for a set of 4. (2x upper and 2x lower).

Its addicting man! Good luck!

 

I'd say just go with the FSD's and stock springs. See what you think of that and if you want firmer then go with the H-Sport as they are cheaper.

 

Having autocrossed on the FSD's and stock (sport suspension plus) springs I would just do the FSD's if ride height wasn't a concern, and if you have money left over go for camber plates at the same time.

I'm reserving my final judgement on the h-sports/FSD's until the next autocross, but since my recent spring swap from the stock to h-sport running both with the FSD's, while the h-sports may feel sporty, I don't think they are necessarily really helping the handling.

FWIW, my full suspension set-up is:

• Koni FSD
• Originally with Stock SS+ springs, now with h-sports
• camber plates
• 19mm rear bar

To actually improve the handling (and not just get a sporty feel) I would do camber plates before I did lowering springs.

 

The konis + springs come to around 800 bucks - would it be better to pick up coilovers ?

on ebay for 801.00

Tein Type BASIC damper is for the driver seeking a high performance suspension system with a reasonable price tag. The whole package consists of 4 springs and 4 shocks with the dampening matched to the spring rates for your car resulting in balanced suspension travel and dampening force. This cannot be matched by springs/struts combo or "sleeve type" coilover.

 

im not sure how your FSD's are reacting to the progressive rate
h-sport springs, but your FSD's are variable damp rate so it might
be a pretty good match (?).

 

Stock springs and shocks strike a pretty reasonable balance for street use, or even occasional autocrossing. I would have recommended a rear sway bar as a first step, but you've already done that.

The next most useful thing to do (on street, track or autocross) is add camber plates up front and adjustable rear control arms in back (unless you have an '05+ and thus have rear camber adjustment already).

Dial in some camber, maybe a touch more caster, zero toe all around and go have fun.

Anything up to -2deg up front or so won't have any significant impact on tire wear, but will be immediately obvious when you bend the car into the next off-ramp. Set the rear around -1.5 or so for a decent balance of front and rear grip.

You can certainly do springs and shocks, but having a proper sporting alignment will do more to improve grip and cost less to boot. Since you said that you aren't specifically looking to lower the car, then that argues even more for just leaving the stock springs and shocks in for now.

I can't see your sig right now, and can't remember what you have for wheels and tires. Going to a wider, lighter weight wheel and adding a true "summer" tire will make a huge difference over stock. Helps the braking and accelerating too.

Scott
90SM

 

Bart's question is about enhanced street suspension. I'm not sure camber is all that useful on the street.

The first question is always, how much money do you want to spend? The second is, how much comfort are you willing to sacrifice to get better suspension performance?

First, I vote no on H-Sport front springs. While they're lower, they're actually softer than stock. Also, stock damper lifespan is very short with lowering springs, at least in western PA.

My vote is for Koni yellows and H&R springs.

 

DO NOT GO WITH THE BASICS! I have heard nothing but bad juju about these from fellow car fanatics. Here is my setup as of current:

18x7.5 Exel TZ-10 wheels
215/35/18 Hankook tires
Bilstein PSS9 coilovers
Alta rear upper and lower control arms
H-Sport Comp front and rear sway bars
Alta front and rear endlinks
H-Sport Front Strut Bar
Pilo Racing Rear Stress Bar

The ONLY thing I DON'T have is camber plates. Which will be had soon.

 

I love my m7 springs!!!

 

Overall, I like the stock suspension on the MCS (especially with the 19mm rear sway bar) but am looking at suspension more since I am 1 mod away from being done w/ the engine. Previous cars, I have had some serious set ups and am not looking to replicate for this car.

So perhaps a nice set of shocks will do the trick or maybe keep my eye on the marketplace or ebay for some used set-ups.

As to tires - I am running the run flats (I KNOW I KNOW). And won't get into why I have kept them so far but they will be gone shortly.

 

Veni-v-v,

I answered Bahamabart's question, noting that:
1. He was interested in street use
2. He was NOT specifically looking to lower the car

More grip is more grip. So my answer applies to MY recommended starting point for both a purely street-driven car as well as a dual-purpose one. The biggest problem, IMHO, with the stock MCS suspension setup is the lack of negative camber up front. Actually, adding some negative camber up front helps reduce understeer too, since that provides more grip up front.

The alignment suggestion I made was less aggressive than I would suggest for a car that was also going to be autocrossed or one that was going to see track time. It is my recommendation for a street car that is going to be driven "aggressively".

If the goal had been to lower the car for visual appeal, or if he wanted something that would be immediately obvious to a passenger BEFORE the car entered a corner (changed ride quality), then I would have suggested coilovers or dampers/lowering springs.

Heck, if we were talking about VW's or Subies I probably would have suggested springs and dampers first. But we are all driving MINI's, which are pretty nicely set up in the regard straight from the factory.

Not trying to be hostile, so please don't take it that way.

I was just giving my opinion, which is all any of us really have to offer. As is obvious from my sig, I've gone way past what I'm recommending and have compromised driveability on the street in favor of having a pretty decent autocross car.

Scott
90SM

 

Just got BF Goodyear G-Sports. Transformed Icarus into a sweet & smooth ride.
FSD+JCW springs+G-Sports= sweetly enhanced street suspension package
Again, get the FSD & G-Sports then go from there.
just my .02

 

No worries, Scott. This is all about opinions. I'm sure if you asked 10 mod-crazy guys (like ourselves) you'd get 12 answers.

 

Koni FSDs + either stock springs or H-sport. If you chose H-sport you need rear camber control arms.

 

the stock springs seem to be stiff enough for street duty, leaving a rear sway bar and struts as the logical next steps (assuming you have competent tires to take advantage that is).

 

V3,

14 answers. I'm flakey that way

Scott
90SM

 

won't
I want more front end grip. What camber/toe/castor settings do you recommend? -2 and -1.5? I'm getting M7 springs

 

Camber and caster (not castor, that's something else altogether, and non-automotive) are not adjustable up front unless camber plates are added to the car. The only front alignment option on a stock Mini is toe.

In the rear, toe is adjustable. Camber is also adjustable on '05+ cars, but not on earlier ones.

Simplifying things a bit, caster is a measure of the angle from straight up-and-down of the suspension travel, seen from the side of the car. It's possible to have too much of a good thing, but for MINIs dial in all you can get if you've added camber plates. That tends to improve steering feel, self-centering, and increases dynamic camber (as the suspension compresses under load).

Lowering the car will increase toe in. In front, it doesn't do much to camber. In the rear, it will increase negative camber and thus increase rear grip. Since the front grip isn't increasing, the car will tend to understeer at steady-state limits. If you don't have camber plates and DO have an 05 or newer car, then you'll want to reduce rear negative camber. You'll definitely want to have your toe reset on both ends, or your tires aren't going to like you. Too much toe (in or out) will have a major impact on tire wear.

For a street car, I'd suggest going to zero toe both front and rear. Again for a street car, -1.5 to -2.0 degrees camber up front should work well. Set your rear camber to roughly .5 degrees less negative than the front setting.

Hope that helps.
Scott
90SM

 

A huge amount of help, thanks very much.

So with an 05 car with no camber plates, and with lowered suspension and a 20mm rear swaybar, this is what i should do.


Won't this make the front end grip higher than the rear? Which might induce oversteer, now that i have a rear swaybar?

 

With an 05 car and no camber plates, you'll have no way to adjust front camber or caster, and will be no where close to -2deg camber in front.

If you are concerned about oversteer, leave the rear camber set around -1.5 in back. I'm going to guess that you'll probably be around -.5 in front, not that you can do much about it. Some cars might have a little more, others a little less.

You can also influence understeer/oversteer by adjusting tire pressures.

"Also does this setup work on the track without any increased load on the suspension components?" Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. Can you state it another way?

Scott
90SM

 

sorry

I meant to say, does adjusting camber cause an increased load on the suspension components at all? Due to the increased grip? Don't worry about it if you dont understand.....

i'm thinking about the Ireland fixed camber plates for the front after my M7 springs come.

Not too worried about understeer and oversteer i just want as much grip as possible. Just don't want it at the expense of a constant state of impending oversteer. I want it neutral, with lots of grip

 

Gotcha. Theoretically yes, but don't worry about it. You'll never be able to notice a durability difference just from increasing grip through alignment. Hitting a pothole can be alot harder on things.

Going to R-compound tires can provide enough added load to increase wear due to the significantly increased grip. Still, it would take an awful lot of track time to notice.

Changing topics....

As for steady-state balance, there are alot of factors in addition to alignment. My setup is very neutral, breaking away into a four wheel drift in long sweepers. However, if I change the throttle input (lift) mid-corner the car WILL rotate. It's easily catchable by reapplying throttle and countersteering, but someone who isn't used to the car would probably spin it.

If you are looking for more grip, you'll want those camber plates.

Scott
90SM

 

thx, awesome answer.

Obviously i won't know what the camber will be with the plates and M7 springs, so i'll just tell the alignment place to set the rear camber to +0.5 more than the front. Hopefully that will be a neutral setting too....

 

As I just mentioned to someone via PM, you can play with tire pressures too. They will also impact the available grip from a tire, and are a cheap and easy way to change the balance of a car. Not as good as adjusting springs, dampers and swaybars, but a heck of a lot cheaper.


Scott
90SM