yeh i've heard this a few times myself, and have tried it. Didn't seem to notice much difference really.

What tire pressures would you recommend on 215/40/17 Eagle F1 GSD3s with stock springs and aftermarket rear SB? i'm currently running 40psi front and rear

 

There are a couple of different approaches that can be taken when adjusting tire pressures. 40psi up front sounds fine.

I like to run rear tire pressures lower than front. Others will run the rear pressures well above the fronts. Either way works.

In essence, if your rear tire pressures are either too high or too low relative to the front then oversteer will be increased.

To set front pressures, look at the shoulders of your tires and make sure that you are rolling them over too far during hard cornering maneuvers. This is what folks are doing with chalk or shoe polish at autocrosses. I just pulled up a picture of your tire model. Don't let the tire roll over any further than the very top of the little triangle which indicates where the wear bars are.

If you were to find an empty parking lot and make a couple tight 360degree turns (oops, I mean go to your local skid pad) as fast as you can, the scuffing on the shoulder shouldn't quite touch the top of the triangle. If it is way above the triangle, you could drop the front tire pressures a couple psi. If it touches, increase them a couple psi. Try to do this on a fairly grippy surface rather than freshly sealed asphalt. The goal is to try and pull max cornering g's, which will occur in tight, low speed manuevers.

Once the fronts are set, adjust the backs up or down 2psi at a time until the car behaves like you want it to. If you are in one of the above tight 360 circles and lift off the gas quickly, the back end of the car should step out at least some. If it doesn't adjust tire pressures until it starts to. If you spin the car when you lift off the gas, you've gone too far.

Don't do this where there is anything or anyone to hit. Please, no off-ramps.

As a point of reference, with a very aggressive (high grip) surface and 215/45-16 Azenis on 7.5" wheels and just a rear sway bar set on the middle setting (way back in March of 2003) my tires pressures at that day's autocross settled on 45F, 38R. Adding camber and SPAX coilovers changed my typical pressures to 43 and 35. Going to the stiffest RSB setting changed them to 43 and 38.

For me, if the car was too loose on a particular course/surface I would raise the rear pressure 1psi. If it wasn't rotating enough, I'd drop it 1psi.

Scott
90SM

 

Is there something different between the 05 and 06 MCS? I just had my car aligned and dialed in -.5 degree camber up front w/o issue.

-.5 to -1.0 front camber is enough for street driving IMO.

I'd just go with the FSDs and stock springs. Should feel might good for spirited street driving. I agree with a lot of the other info.

 

sorry about the late reply, was on the phone.

I'm not really sure which triangle's you're talking about. Could you point to them on the tire model pic you have on your computer?

 

Go here:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/BigPic...Eagle+F1+GS-D3

If you look right above the "E" in Eagle, you'll see a little triangle molded into the rubber. That's what I'm talking about.


As for the '05-'06 being different, I'm not aware of anything different in the front suspension adjustability (or lack there of). All a shop can really do is loosen the mounting bolts and then try to push the strut in the direction they want as the bolts are retightened.

Scott
90SM

 

oh ok now i know. Thanks for that...

Don't really have access to a car park like that....but i have scuff marks about half an inch about that triangle...

One thing as well, the outside of the front tires are worn after 3000 miles of normal driving. And even moreso on the left. The tread is on the level of the indicators....

My first set of tires were gone after 10000 miles. Why the hell does my car do this?

The car doesn't grip as well as other mini's i've been in, either.

 

I was out of town for a few days (two days driving at Watkins Glen), so I missed the first round on this thread.

I'm a really big fan of the JCW suspension upgrade as an all-around suspension. But I haven't ridden in an FSD equipped car to compare it to.

 

etalj,

The outside of your tire is worn because you need more camber. It's been doing "all" the work when cornering hard, and the inside half hasn't been contributing. Increasing negative camber will help the tire stay perpendicular to the road under hard cornering loads, thus bringing more of the tread into play. That is why grip is higher, and has the added bonus of evening out tire wear if you do a lot of hard driving.

Scott
90SM

 

oh ok thanks....would that be an explanation for my poor front end grip?

Even with my rear SB my rear tires never seem to break loose

And another thing. Nothing to do with cornering. I have a mate with the same tires on his Pug GTi, but 16" rather than 17". When he takes off, he gets squealing, and lots of grip. When i take off, i get a) no grip and b) no squealing, its as if the ground is wet. Also, the wet performance of my tires is terrifying. Its actually dangerous. I have Eagle F1s. They're meant for wet performance. My mates pug is fine in the wet, its as if the ground's dry when driving his car. Wtf is wrong with my car.

 

FWIW, I just had my 10k mile MCSa aligned. Bought it new. Front alignment was out of spec. Toe especially.

Get one done at a reputable place. Makes a nice difference when the wheels are pointed in the right direction.

 

just to update -

I picked up a set of Bilstien SP's which I think is a solid step towards a great daily driver.

Springs - I am indifferent about hieght but when it comes to spring considerations, I have M7 and JCW on the list. While trying to read up on springs here at NAM, one concern I have now is vibration problems caused by lowering springs. For that reason JCW is on my list for it barely drops the car.
Doubtful, That I can find any "deal" on JCW springs.

 

I agree completely, I have a set of H-sport springs in a box in my office just staring at me, I just can't stand throwing money at having them installed, with or without FSDs and then just having to take them off because of vibrations.

Unless people are now considering that it is just expected to replace the right CV joint for $450 to get rid of the vibration.

It seems that the far majority of lowering springs Minis have said that they experience at least some vibration, that's unacceptable to me so I guess I'll just mount these springs on my mantle piece for Christmas. Maybe even have the bronzed?!

Frustrated here, as others seem to be as well,
paul

 

I just parted with my new FSD's and H-Sports and have a lightly used JCW kit going on soon. Honestly, my only gripe about the handling is body roll (seemingly more in teh Coupe than our Cabrio which puzzles me - extra weight up high maybe between the hardtop and sunroof?). I've also got a set of H-Sport sways....debating on whether to do just the rear or both.

For me, the OEM setup was spot on for damping and ride quality is quite good, so my hope is that the JCW improves on things while keeping the balance right. I'd like a bit quicker turn-in and a bit more 'feel', so hopefully I'm on the right track.

 

I would love to find a set of JCW springs at a reasonable price - was quoted $340. ABSURD! It seems I will be going with the Bilstiens and stock springs which I am hopeful will give me the bump up I am looking for.

 

If your goal is to provide better handling on the street I would recommend:
- Next mod should be the M7 USS. It makes the car feel more confident and solid around corners and over bumps. Fewer little steering wheel corrections required. You'll like it. Easy to install yourself at home too.
- After that get better tires. Get a good street performance tire (non-runflat). Put a can of fix-a-flat in the trunk just in case. This is also a good excuse to buy some new lighter weight wheels.
- Then get some FSDs. Ride/handling is good with these, and if they're like other KONI products I've owned they should be durable.
- Lowering springs are your own choice. Do it if you want the look and perceived improvement in performance, and can tolerate the reduced ground clearance and more ride harshness. The stock springs are a decent ride/handling compramise, so don't throw them away in case you want to switch back. Poly bushings are a similar decision - you might like them, or they might drive you crazy and you'll have to put stock ones back in.
- I didn't recommend camber plates or control arms for the street. I have these on my car, but I take it to the track. You have to be cornering very hard (like at the track, not on the street) to get your money's worth from camber plates and control arms. There is no huge difference in street performance before and after I put these parts in, except that the car turns in a little sharper, but the improved turn in is probably mostly due to slightly more front toe-out that was added at the same time (and could be done without camber plates or control arms).The camber plates will allow more neg front camber to reduce understeer and let your R compound tires wear more evenly at the track. I added the control arms for safety after reports that the stock ones can break under severe conditions.
- After that there is still more you can spend on your suspension, but why? After the 19mm rear swaybar, USS, better tires, FSDs, and maybe springs the incremental improvements you will get won't match the dollars you can spend, in my opinion. Put your money in a good set of brake pads for improved brake feel and shorter stopping distances. Then buy some more horsepower. Oh, and don't forget to invest in the driver. High-performance driving schools are the most fun per dollar you can have with your car, they will keep you and everyone else on the road safer, and can lower your lap times more than all those expensive go-fast parts you just bought. Have fun!

 

USS is nice, when it fits. Keep in mind it's not a sure thing. I pulled it off my wife's car after clearance issues and chasing down noises got tiresome.

 

This may be outside your price range, but the Sport suspension I have from Texas SpeedWerks is fantastic. Leda struts with Leda springs on the front and Hypercoils on the rear. Every time I go over an expansion joint or take a corner I feel the difference. They're better than the stock suspension in every regard - ride, handling, adjustability, you name it. I think they're just now setting pricing (my car is the test vehicle for this suspension) but whatever it is it will be worth it.

 

I'm going to see how far the bilstien SPs, tires, 19mm rear sway and a strut tower brace get me. I would like to add a set of jcw springs but my son is against it (father and son project car).

My sons concern about the springs is "vibration" which has been posted about here at NAM.

So we will drive it a bit and if left unsatisfied will look to do more.

 

I'm not sure what vibration you're talking about. The issue that sometimes pops up with massive lowering or something else.

But I can tell you that the JCW springs + JCW dampers combination is quite nice... seems almost a shame to break up that combo by using the JCW springs with some other dampers. Sure, it might work better than the JCW combo, but it might also be worse. The JCW combo was designed as a combo, after all.

 

Massive lowering? That clearly is NOT what people have been experiencing with their commonly lowered Minis.
Vibration IS a real issue and the older the Mini, the greaater the chance the CV joints have worn their inherent grooves.
There are several threads that speak of these issues.

Vibration is real, and that's what keeps me from installing the H-sport springs that have sat in my office for several months now.

I have an '02 so I am almost guranteed vibrations from lowering.

Paul

 

September 02 build MINI, 100,000 miles, JCW suspension, no vibrations.

The JCW upgrade is a minimal drop in ride height. I haven't read all the threads on the CV joint issues, but isn't it usually true that the greater the lowering, the greater the risk of CV issues? That would make the JCW suspension the least risky "enhanced" suspension in terms of CV joint issues.

 

Just to update - on my suspension advancements

I was very lucky ($630.00) and just picked up 7 x 17 Sparco DS1 Rims w/ Falken Azenis (215/40/17) - combined weight is 34lbs so the rims are in the 16lb category. Tires were autocrossed once and are almost newI can't wait for them to arrive and GOOD BUY RUN FLATS

 

Sounds nice. Pics when you get them on, and impressions after some miles please!



Scott
90SM

 

bump. for 90STX, cos his answers are good

 

Here is a pic of the rims. Since it is so close to Xmas, I will put then under the tree along with e Bilstiens.