I want to get an alignment before heading to the track this year. I have already printed out the stock JCW kit suspension kit alignment specs, but does anyone have specs that could possibly improve the handling on track?

I don't have camber plates or adjustable control arms. I understand that rear camber is somewhat adjustable on the 05s, but I don't know that I want to increase it without doing the same up front, as I don't want the car to push any more than it already does (I have the rear H-Sport ARB set on the stiffest setting)

Anyone have toe specs? Should I go zero toe all around? I'm adding Stoptechs before the season starts as well and don't want to reduce any braking efficiency with too much toe-out.

Thanks in advance for the guidance!

 

Dial out as much negative camber as possible in the rear... and go with 0 toe all around (or as close as you can get it). I wouldn't add much toe out in the front, as it makes the car a bit darty - good for autocross, bad for track.

 

Dial *OUT* as much negative camber in the rear as possible?

You mean reduce negative camber to even less thatn stock JCW specs if possible? Hmmmm - I don't know that the problem is too much grip in the rear, but rather not enough up front. I'm not concerned with tire wear at all. I just want the thing to corner better.

I don't know if I'm going to get better cornering speeds by further loosening up the rear.

I'm certainly not arguing, but I just want further elaboration on the rationale...

 

If you are not very experienced at high speed track driving, I suggest NOT changing rear suspension alignment from stock. The last thing you need when learning is transient oversteer in high speed corners. Autocross is a different story.

I suggest keeping front toe as close to zero on the front wheels to reduce high speed drag.

Have fun and be smooth.

 

I'm an instructor. =)

I find that the car still pushes even with the JCW suspension and the H-Sport bar in the rear set on stiff. The only way I can get it to set the line I want is via a quick lift at turn-in. I think I need to practice my left-foot braking.

But anyway, though I'd like for the car to be a little more neutral, I'm lax to attempt to gain this neutrality by loosening up the rear. If anything, I'm leaning toward camber plates up front to increase the grip there.

I'm mainly looking for toe suggestions. Is it a consensus to go zero toe all around then?

 

I was suggesting that you dial out as much negative camber in the rear as possible, yes... The less you have in the rear, the better the car will turn in and rotate without camber plates in the front with the stock front camber. The front will likely be pretty close to 0 camber, and I'd guess the rear will be at -1.0-1.5 in factory spec for the JCW kit. If you can dial some out (less negative), the car should offer better turn-in and rotation. It shouldn't push as much... I'd shoot for a 0.5 degree difference, if possible, but that may be outside what you can achieve with the factory adjustments in the rear control arms...

If you had camber plates in the front, I'd suggest -2.2 up front and -1.5 in the rear with 0 toe f/r. You may find that with the camber plates you have to back off the rear swaybar, too - almost everyone I know had to once they installed plates, except for the guys that like a really loose car... Camber plates make such a huge difference...

My setup is -2.2 and -1.2, with 1/16" toe out in front and 0 toe in the rear... Works great for autocross, but for the track I'd add a bit more negative camber in the rear (to around -1.5) and go to 0 toe in the front. It's VERY fast in r/l and l/r transitions that you typically see in autocross with the current settings, but requires a fine hand in fast sweepers as it's a bit twitchy with the toe out in front and camber difference f/r of 1 degree... It's hooked up hard, but you have to be careful as it's a bit on the oversteer side of neutral...

 

I guess I have a problem with reducing overall grip to improve balance. I feel like balance is only a brake tap or throttle lift away but grip is an absolute factor that I cannot gain, assuming smooth driving style.

*sigh*

I might try it just for kicks though. It's not all about lap times; if the *** came out with less prodding that sounds like fun.

 

Regardless of what reducing the grip in the rearend does "overall", if you really want to improve turn-in and rotation then it's worth dialing out as much neg camber in the rear as possible.

The grip won't ever be as good as it will with camber plates up front, though...

 

I agree...I have the exact same alignment settings.
After installing the front camber adjusting plates, may car was completely different.{took me by surprise}..had to back way off the rear swaybar.
I don't think you will be happy until you install front camber plates.

 

Mine is set at 2 degrees negative front, a hair toe in - can't remember because it's a a fraction of a hair, 1 degree negative in the rear and 1/16" toe in in the rear. I've retained the stock swaybars until I drive this on the track. I prefer to get these settings as well as the damper settings correct, then use an appropriate swaybar to fine tune the balance.

You are correct, too much toe out along and or too much negative camber will reduce braking efficiency. A BBK will help...

 

I can't really see a big brake kit helping with a lack of traction due to toe - prehaps stickier tires would be a bit of a band aid fix, but larger pcalipers and rotors won't help IMHO.

In any event, I ended up going with zero toe all around. I had -1.8 degrees in the rear on both sides before starting. When my tech loosened the eccentric bolt that controls the rear camber he found he could not even get it back to -1.8. -2.0 was the least neg camber he could get after loosening the bolt, so we left it there.

Front camber is at -0.3 on one side and -0.9 on the other side. We didn't want to get into subframe tweaks, so we left it as is because I'm intending to get fron camber plates int he future anyway.

We'll see how this works out this season with zero toe and the Stoptechs. I'll do a few events and then look into the camber plates.

 

This is a relative conversation.

Front wheel drive cars like the Type R for example, in pure race trim, can not use lots of toe out along with lots of camber - these cars have very powerful brakes. The same forces at work with extreme toe out are exaserbated by big brakes. In general, and as an example only, 1/16" toe out and 1.5 degrees negative camber up front is perhaps in that gray area between optimal and lunacy.

Zero toe as I understand it is a no, no - for basically the same reason zero scrub radius(center point steering) is not considered desirable. But plenty of folks use it...who am I to argue. The amount of compliance in the suspension and tires should at some point relate to toe and camber.

The ultimate camber setting should be determined by roll rate and roll stiffness. This determines where the suspension geometry is for a given steering angle. In other words, it's based upon your springs, dampers and ride height.

2 degrees negative camber out back is quite a bit. A remedy exists for the rear for about $210.00 a pair shipped From Ireland Engineering. You can also add their fixed camber plate or their street kit. Total investment around $500.00 plus installation and alignment. These two items will transform your car.

You'll find that the car will bite much better if you keep at least 1 degree more negative camber up front than the rear. Ex(2 up front 1 in the rear, 1.5 up front, .5 in the rear)

I used the same driving technique last year in my stock JCW - not JCW suspension however. It worked very well. This year will be quite different.